When to Charge the 450h+ PHEV

[ABitterman]

I’ve ordered the plug in NX and wondered what the most efficient way of using it is. I’m guessing putting it on charge at home every night but as no doubt I’ve missed the boat on the Lexus offer of a free charger so I’d have to spend around £1,000 on a home charger just for 40 miles a day. How much more does it cost in fuel to let the engine charge up the Battery or would I be better off using a commercial charging station. Went plug in because of the BIK but would like to run it in the most economical way. Cheers. 

[Guest]

Check with the dealer about the charger as my understanding is that the 'free charger' offer was extended to the end of March.

[ABitterman]

Just now, Lexux said:

Check with the dealer about the charger as my understanding is that the 'free charger' offer was extended to the end of March.

Is that ordered or delivered. I've seen a few posts where the car must be delivered by the end of April to qualify. Mine will not arrive until the summer. Fantastic news if it's based on the order date. Can't see mee plugging it in to a 3-pin socket every night!

[Guest]

This is from the Lexus site:-

 

"Order your all-new NX 450+ Plug-in Hybrid online and receive a complimentary wall box including installation. *Subject to receiving the OZEV grant. Offer available to orders placed from 1st September - 31st March 2022. Please see terms and conditions for details."

[Guest]

I see the Lexus site mentions ordering on-line. My local dealer confirmed the offer if ordered with them.

 

The bit about the grant may be a 'fly in the ointment'!

[ABitterman]

Mine was ordered though work, I'll go and check with them.

[ColinBarber]

Use a 3 pin charger, you easily have enough time overnight to charge the small Battery the NX has. Getting an external 3 pin socket fitted, if you don't have one, is much cheaper than a dedicated EV charger.

[Joey020]

2 hours ago, ABitterman said:

I’ve ordered the plug in NX and wondered what the most efficient way of using it is. I’m guessing putting it on charge at home every night but as no doubt I’ve missed the boat on the Lexus offer of a free charger so I’d have to spend around £1,000 on a home charger just for 40 miles a day. How much more does it cost in fuel to let the engine charge up the battery or would I be better off using a commercial charging station. Went plug in because of the BIK but would like to run it in the most economical way. Cheers. 

Lexus now updated their website. My dealer however says free callbox is not available for lease vehicles, not sure how true this is.

Free wallbox offer applies to all orders by 31st March 2022 and delivered by 31st Dec 2022

Revised T&Cs here

https://d3rvezpmgp265q.cloudfront.net/lexusone/lexgbenv11/British-Gas-Wall-Box-Terms-and-Conditions-Final-2022_tcm-3157-2456319.pdf

[ABitterman]

Once that initial charge has depleted does the car operate just like the 350h or can it fully recharge the larger Battery on long trips?

[rayaans]

I wouldnt pay ££££ for the wallbox as already mentioned the Battery is small (18.1kwh) it should charge from 3 pin in 7-8 hours. 

The 450h+ can be used exclusively as a hybrid as well so will function like the 350h. I dont think its possible to charge the Battery fully on long trips whilst driving.

[Joey020]

2 minutes ago, ABitterman said:

Once that initial charge has depleted does the car operate just like the 350h or can it fully recharge the larger battery on long trips?

Both. It can run like the standard 350h or there's an option to use the engine to charge the Battery but I would advise against that as that is the least economic thing to do.

[hockeyedwards]

I had a right old nose about one at my local dealer, was interested in swapping out the 300h the Mrs has now. I have sadly heard conflicting information - you'd think they'd learn about the product they are selling...

I have been told that it

1. Does not recharge itself and you essentially carry dead Battery weight after its 40mile usage - thats pants if you ask me

2. The Battery is constantly recharged through braking/ coasting etc and then if fully depleted, the combustion engine can recharge it

3. The Battery has 40 mile range, does not get charged as you drive, but once depleted, the combustion engine recharges it

Hopefully there will be some clarity as all the mis-information put me off and the 300h lives on!!

[rayaans]

1 minute ago, hockeyedwards said:

I had a right old nose about one at my local dealer, was interested in swapping out the 300h the Mrs has now. I have sadly heard conflicting information - you'd think they'd learn about the product they are selling...

I have been told that it

1. Does not recharge itself and you essentially carry dead battery weight after its 40mile usage - thats pants if you ask me

2. The battery is constantly recharged through braking/ coasting etc and then if fully depleted, the combustion engine can recharge it

3. The battery has 40 mile range, does not get charged as you drive, but once depleted, the combustion engine recharges it

Hopefully there will be some clarity as all the mis-information put me off and the 300h lives on!!

I think Number 2 is correct. It'll use the brakes and coasting to charge up the Battery albeit relatively slowly. 

The other questions is, if you're buying privately, whether the extra £8-9k of the 450h+ is actually worth it

[ABitterman]

I think the plug-in variant is only worth the extra cost if it's a company vehicle. The 450h PHEV is actually less expensive than the 350h overall as its BIK is 7% of the total value of the car as opposed to the 350h at 32%. Guess there are a lot of company car drivers going around in PHEVS and never actually charging them up!

[Guest]

Take care with using the 3 pin cable as it's supposed to be for occasional emergency use. The issue is that many homes aren't 'wired' to cope with the load being drawn so overheating, and other issues, can occur.

Recently I was reading a thread on an EV forum where someone was using the 3 pin charger from an outlet in their garage and the plug melted and burnt - imagine if that had been inside the house!

[Bish1402]

7 minutes ago, Lexux said:

Take care with using the 3 pin cable as it's supposed to be for occasional emergency use. The issue is that many homes aren't 'wired' to cope with the load being drawn so overheating, and other issues, can occur.

Recently I was reading a thread on an EV forum where someone was using the 3 pin charger from an outlet in their garage and the plug melted and burnt - imagine if that had been inside the house!

Nonsense... Ive used a 3pin plug to charge my outlander overnight for almost 6 years, and that's been in 3 different houses, and all with £10 extension leads :). You'll be fine on a 3 pin.

 

If you have access there is absolutely no need to pay for a wallbox, the only thing you gain is charging speed, and if its overnight anyway then this does not matter.. 

[Bish1402]

31 minutes ago, hockeyedwards said:

I had a right old nose about one at my local dealer, was interested in swapping out the 300h the Mrs has now. I have sadly heard conflicting information - you'd think they'd learn about the product they are selling...

I have been told that it

1. Does not recharge itself and you essentially carry dead battery weight after its 40mile usage - thats pants if you ask me

2. The battery is constantly recharged through braking/ coasting etc and then if fully depleted, the combustion engine can recharge it

3. The battery has 40 mile range, does not get charged as you drive, but once depleted, the combustion engine recharges it

Hopefully there will be some clarity as all the mis-information put me off and the 300h lives on!!

All the sales speach and initial reports is that it DOES run like the 300H and a self charging hybrid. 

I drive a Outlander and when the Battery is gone I only get 30-34mpg MAX, reports of the 450H doing over 40-45mpg , with a much heavier Battery suport this conclusion, if it didn't it would struggle to do 30mpg lugging around an 18kwh Battery and running a 2.5L engine! 

[Guest]

I said "take care". I didn't say don't use. I don't talk nonsense and ask for an apology for your display of arrogance and ignorance.

 

This is a picture that was posted on the EV forum thread to which I made reference:-

 

[NemesisUK]

For that to happen I suggest there was either a loose terminal or broken wire. Perhaps an over rated fuse fitted?

[Guest]

Point is, it did happen!

 

I hope the following link works as the site contains a lot of good information about 3 pin chargers. Note the advice about taking care

 

Safely Charging your Electric Vehicle Using a Granny Charger – Tough Leads

 

I would still like an apology from  @Bish1402, or are some people just not prepared to admit that they may be wrong.

[Guest]

In case people can't be bothered to follow my link, here's an extract from the advice:-

 

"How do I know the electricity supply is safe?

Irrespective of whether an extension lead is used, it is important that you consider how safe the supply may be before plugging in your charger.

• Domestic electrical installations can deteriorate with use and age. It is therefore important that a periodic inspection is carried out every 10 years for an owner-occupied home and every five years for rented properties or HMOs.

• As sockets age the contacts can loosen, meaning that the contact between the socket and plug pins is not as firm as it should be, which may increase the risk of over heating. We would always recommend charging your EV from a relatively new branded socket, such as one manufactured by MK, Crabtree, Schneider, Hamilton etc. 
• Carefully check the socket for signs of damage, such as brown marks around the receptacles or cracks.
• Only use either a single socket, or a double socket which has nothing else connected to it.
• We would always recommend that the supply is checked using a plug in socket tester. Whilst the unit does not provide the same level of testing or assurance provided by a periodic inspection, it does at least provide a simple check of the supply in order to identify basic problems. The unit simply plugs in, and a row of lights illuminate to confirm that the supply is safe to use e.g. there is an earth connection and the live/neutral are the correct way around.  

Is it worth using an RCD?

Whenever you mix electricity, the great British weather and a metal car, it is absolutely vital to ensure that the entire lead is protected by an RCD. A residual current device (RCD) is a life-saving device which is designed to prevent you from getting a fatal electric shock if you come into contact with a live wire or current. RCDs offer a level of personal protection that ordinary fuses and circuit-breakers cannot provide.

Due to their size, RCD plug units often prevent a lead from being used in an outside socket, or where there is anything above the socket. All of our leads therefore come with the option of an RCD plug or an RCD unit which is fitted in-line with the cable, to prevent such issues."

 

 

By the way, my only interest is to provide a warning to take care - i.e., a concern for the safety of others. I don't expect my expression of concern for another's safety to be met with an insinuation that I talk nonsense!

[NemesisUK]

10 minutes ago, Lexux said:

Point is, it did happen!

 

I hope the following link works as the site contains a lot of good information about 3 pin chargers. Note the advice about taking care

 

Safely Charging your Electric Vehicle Using a Granny Charger – Tough Leads

 

I would still like an apology from  @Bish1402, or are some people just not prepared to admit that they may be wrong.

From the link you posted (the main thrust seems to be around using extension leads of insufficient cross section conductors, some talking of just 1.5mm!)

"As sockets age the contacts can loosen, meaning that the contact between the socket and plug pins is not as firm as it should be, which may increase the risk of over heating. We would always recommend charging your EV from a relatively new branded socket, such as one manufactured by MK, Crabtree, Schneider, Hamilton etc. "

The other socket in the image also shows early signs of overheating, suggesting an inferior product? A properly installed ring main with cable of 2.5mm conductors will handle the typical 10amps without issue

As with anything electrical, get expert support and have the installation checked by a professional

[Guest]

An extract from the DS Auto's site (they produce both PHEV's and EV's so they should know what they are talking about

 

"Also known as: slow charging, Mode 2, granny charging, trickle charging, standard charging, 3 pin charging, AC (alternating current) charging

DS vehicle socket: Type 2 connector.

A domestic charging cable is supplied with your DS for charging your vehicle from a standard household 3-pin socket. However, charging in this way is not something we recommend as your daily charging solution and sockets should always be checked for suitability by a qualified electrician."

 

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

From the link you posted (the main thrust seems to be around using extension leads of insufficient cross section conductors, some talking of just 1.5mm!)

"As sockets age the contacts can loosen, meaning that the contact between the socket and plug pins is not as firm as it should be, which may increase the risk of over heating. We would always recommend charging your EV from a relatively new branded socket, such as one manufactured by MK, Crabtree, Schneider, Hamilton etc. "

The other socket in the image also shows early signs of overheating, suggesting an inferior product?

As with anything electrical, get expert support and have the installation checked by a professional

So you agree that one should take care!

[NemesisUK]

2 minutes ago, Lexux said:

So you agree that one should take care!

Just as one should using a 3kw fan heater in one's lounge!