GS450 3rd gen: Check VSC, Check ECB, Check Hybrid System

[zeczec]

Hi. This has just started happening, and sometimes I'm left stranded at traffic lights if I put my gears into P, and then into D again. İt won't move till I switch off car and then on again. What's going on? I'm worried.

 

Thanks in advance 

[Herbie]

You need to have the OBD codes read and preferably with Techstream because I don't think generic readers show the sub-codes.

The codes point to areas where the fault may lie and the sub-codes help to narrow it down. For example, P0AA6 covers six different areas, so the sub-codes are very important. P0AA6-123 points to one thing, P0AA6-124 points to something different, P0AA6-125 is something different again and so on. Please note that these aren't actual sub-codes, just an illustration.

So, to give any meaningful or useful answer, we really need those codes - anything else is just guesswork.

Having said that, multiple warnings can just be an indication that the 12V Battery is beginning to fail. All sorts of weird and wonderful things can occur when that happens, so it may be worth having your Battery load tested before getting any deeper.

[zeczec]

1 minute ago, Herbie said:

You need to have the OBD codes read and preferably with Techstream because I don't think generic readers show the sub-codes.

The codes point to areas where the fault may lie and the sub-codes help to narrow it down. For example, P0AA6 covers six different areas, so the sub-codes are very important. P0AA6-123 points to one thing, P0AA6-124 points to something different, P0AA6-125 is something different again and so on. Please note that these aren't actual sub-codes, just an illustration.

So, to give any meaningful or useful answer, we really need those codes - anything else is just guesswork.

Having said that, multiple warnings can just be an indication that the 12V battery is beginning to fail. All sorts of weird and wonderful things can occur when that happens, so it may be worth having your battery load tested before getting any deeper.

That's very helpful thanks! Ive also got a check tire pressure warning from before all this.

 

Another thing I noticed is that my steering wheel doesn't move into position as fast when turning on. 

[Mossypossy]

Presume the steering wheel moving is done by the tiny Battery as part of the switching on of the system prior to engine starting?

Then the hybrid Battery will kick in.

IF this is the case, then a failing 12v Battery would explain the sluggish movement of the steering column.

[zeczec]

Okay I've just done an OBD scan and it came out with a whole bunch of codes. But hopefully someone can identify the root cause!

[cruisermark]

I would start with the cheapest and simplest chek - get your 12V Battery checked

[zeczec]

4 minutes ago, cruisermark said:

I would start with the cheapest and simplest chek - get your 12V battery checked

I've got a multimeter, do you know what to look for? Should I test it while car is off or on?

 

Thanks

4 minutes ago, cruisermark said:

 

 

[Herbie]

2 minutes ago, cruisermark said:

I would start with the cheapest and simplest chek - get your 12V battery checked

I'll second that @zeczec As I said above, when it begins to fail then all manner of weird and wonderful things can happen, multiple warnings and fault codes amongst them.

I notice that one of the OBD codes displayed is a good example of needing the sub-codes too, as you'll see in this screendump:

[Herbie]

2 minutes ago, zeczec said:

I've got a multimeter, do you know what to look for? Should I test it while car is off or on?

Not really much good for this particular situation.

The multimeter could show 12V but when a load is applied that voltage could drop like a stone, which is why it really needs to be load tested.

[zeczec]

1 minute ago, Herbie said:

Not really much good for this particular situation.

The multimeter could show 12V but when a load is applied that voltage could drop like a stone, which is why it really needs to be load tested.

That's a very good point.

My brother came round with his is250, and I did a quick Battery 'swap' (I just connected my cables to his Battery using jump leads).

But the problem was the same but worse, with even slower steering wheel position movement. Not sure if this bears any relevance.

So I guess my best bet is to take my Battery to a mech who can test it, hmmm.

[Herbie]

21 minutes ago, zeczec said:

So I guess my best bet is to take my battery to a mech who can test it, hmmm.

Yes. Any garage should be able to do it or even a car accessory shop (as long as they sell batteries) or even Halfords. It should only take a few minutes so there probably won't even be a charge for it.

You can test with your multimeter against the chart below but it'll only show 'standing' voltage and not the actual capacity. If you then test again with the car in READY mode you should see about 14.5V if the charging system is working alright.

[zeczec]

Hi all,

So I got my Battery tested by Kwik Fit, however, I took the Battery manually (on bus!) and so it was tested whilst not plugged into my car. It's a fail according to them and I've attached the printouts of the 2 tests they ran.

Point to note is though, I charged the Battery using one of those mains chargers, and it only took it to 12.8V (pic attached).

So, in your esteemed opinions, is the Battery really knackered and in need of a change? 

[zeczec]

On 2/6/2022 at 3:53 PM, Herbie said:

Yes. Any garage should be able to do it or even a car accessory shop (as long as they sell batteries) or even Halfords. It should only take a few minutes so there probably won't even be a charge for it.

You can test with your multimeter against the chart below but it'll only show 'standing' voltage and not the actual capacity. If you then test again with the car in READY mode you should see about 14.5V if the charging system is working alright.

When I did the multimeter test, from what I recall it did jump to 14 ish volts when I got my brother to start the car... From what I recall. I'm happy to do this test again to make sure.

[Herbie]

18 minutes ago, zeczec said:

When I did the multimeter test, from what I recall it did jump to 14 ish volts when I got my brother to start the car... From what I recall. I'm happy to do this test again to make sure.

That's alright Umar, that shows that the charging system is working as it should.

Have you had the 12V Battery load tested yet?

[zeczec]

29 minutes ago, Herbie said:

That's alright Umar, that shows that the charging system is working as it should.

Have you had the 12V battery load tested yet?

Hi there, yes at Kwik fit. Posted the result 2 comments ago. Just check the comment previous to the one of mine that you just replied to. Thank you!

 

 

 😄

[Herbie]

4 minutes ago, zeczec said:

Hi there, yes at Kwik fit. Posted the result 2 comments ago. Just check the comment previous to the one of mine that you just replied to. Thank you!

Sorry Umar, I missed that 

For some reason or other the pictures aren't loading for me but if it's been load tested and the result was a fail, you just need a new Battery and you should be sorted then.

[zeczec]

55 minutes ago, zeczec said:

When I did the multimeter test, from what I recall it did jump to 14 ish volts when I got my brother to start the car... From what I recall. I'm happy to do this test again to make sure.

I just remembered that I filmed the whole process, and now I can confirm that yes, the voltage did indeed jump to 14V when the car was started. So I guess that confirms that my charging system is working.

[zeczec]

2 minutes ago, Herbie said:

Sorry Umar, I missed that 

For some reason or other the pictures aren't loading for me but if it's been load tested and the result was a fail, you just need a new battery and you should be sorted then.

Okay sounds good. I'll order a new one. I'm thinking Bosch... Do you have recommendations?

Thanks for your help thus far. Will keep updating.

[Herbie]

1 minute ago, zeczec said:

Okay sounds good. I'll order a new one. I'm thinking Bosch... Do you have recommendations?

Thanks for your help thus far. Will keep updating.

My own personal choice is Yuasa but Bosch are good too.

[kim_gs]

Yuasa HJ-S65D26L-B should be a direct fit to the original Panasonic I believe. Both regarding size and vent.

[zeczec]

Okay... I've just fitted in a new 12v Battery. And the problem persists. Car won't go into Ready mode. I even unplugged the main hybrid Battery fuse for ten minutes.

[zeczec]

RECAP

I thought it would be beneficial to just recap at this stage what's happened.

1) I was sat in my lovely lexus chatting to a friend for about half an hour. Car was fully on "Ready", with transmission in P... when the fateful errors starting showing in succession: i) Check Hybrid System ii) Check VSC iii) Check ECB iv) Check System (tire pressure) and then back to i). Of note is, I already had the Check System (tire pressure) from before for several weeks, so that's probably unrelated.

2) I drove home and noticed that the engine wouldn't charge my hybrid Battery, but the regen charging worked fine (according to the central console screen). This might be an important point. I think I forgot to mention this first time.

3) On my way home, I arrived at a traffic light and so, to ease pressure off my foot, I put the transmission into N. I do this a lot without issue, and then shift back to D when lights go green. But, upon doing so, it wouldn't move. So I put hazard lights on, put into P, turned off car, on again, then P to D, then I was able to move. This happened twice. Thank God I was able to arrive home and reverse into driveway.

4) Several hours later, when I tried turning on, Ready would flash, engine would fire up, but only for about 5 seconds after which it would cut out and Ready would disappear.

5) I did an OBD2 scan using a Bluetooth OBD2 reader linked to my phone, which yielded the following error codes:

P2797 - Electromagnetic Oil Pump,
P3191 - Engine Does not Start,
P0A0F Engine Failed to Start, and
C1241 Low or High Power Supply Voltage.

6) A day later, when I'd try turning it on, Ready wouldn't come on at all, not even flashing. I did a Battery load test on my 12v, it failed the test, so I replaced it with a new Yuasa. Same error messages as before.

7) After breifly charging my new Yuasa off a wall socket (it reached above 13V), I fitted it in. I unplugged the main hybrid Battery orange fuse, replugged it in after 10+ minutes. Tried starting again. Got the exact same result as point number 6 above.

So that's where I'm at! I appreciate your continued guidance.

Another point to note is: this car had a new hybrid Battery fitted in 2018 by Lexus. The car is now more than 15 years old.

[zeczec]

8 ) Another symptom I forgot to mention is that my memory seat settings have been lost, and I can only open/close the driver window. This has been like this since before I disconnected any Battery, i.e. as of step 4.

[Herbie]

OK, so your 12V Battery wasn't good and needed replacing anyway, so at least you know that that's alright now.

You've got all those fault codes but as I said (and illustrated) further up the thread, one of the codes you have is P0A0F, which covers five different areas of concern. You really need to use Techstream to narrow it down with the sub-codes that TS shows.

I'm afraid that it's not looking like a five-minute fix and you're going to have to do some methodical and logical diagnostic fault-finding to get to the bottom of it, unless anyone else has any great ideas to share.

[zeczec]

Yes I'm working on getting techstream now...

I've noticed one of the codes is to do with the oil pump of some kind. I looked around and apparently it's quite a common fault on my model of GS, which causes the same or similar symptoms. I'm thinking that I could jack up the car and get to it and open it and see if it has seized. Any thoughts on this? My car is due for a service anyway now that it's at 120000 miles (and I'd prefer to do it myself).

And yes, I'm happy with the Battery. I implemented Britprius's suggestion to get a larger one as I do tend to sit and listen to stuff for extended periods on ACC mode and it'd be nice to know I'll have charge left for longer.