Best tyres?

[peniole]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

exceptional "tyre preserving" driving style

The only "tire preserving" driving I do is I don't brake often, at 84k I still hadn't changed pads. I maintain speed and plan beyond the tip of my nose when it comes to slowing down and accelerating. Not particularly difficult to do, especially when I know the route and know when and where speed limits change. On the other hand, loops I take at maximum posted limits, and enjoy the lateral G's. That civic was known for its cornering ability and I relished its limits in the dry and the wet. Took it on twisty routes through the Eifel. I also enjoyed the excellent off the line acceleration. I also maxed out that car on the autobahn on more than one occasion but not frequently. Mind you that civic only weighed 1.3 tons. Oh and I drove that car non-stop germany to uk and back once before selling on that same set of tires.

I'm on my second set now on a new car. I drive considerably more sedately in the ES than in the civic. However, we have rougher surfacing here, and it's a 1.6-1.7ton car. I'll report back how long this set lasts with my "driving style".

EDIT: proof of longevity attached to previous post. Tire compounds and treads have moved on from our prior preconceptions.

[HoofHearted]

I’ve started a hot topic I see! 
 

had been recommend Pirelli pilot sport 4s. 
 

seen a few on here mention them. In terms of fuel economy, duration and grip in the wet does anybody have any complaints with them? 

[Linas.P]

6 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

I’ve started a hot topic I see! 
 

had been recommend Michelin pilot sport 4s. 
 

seen a few on here mention them. In terms of fuel economy, duration and grip in the wet does anybody have any complaints with them? 

These would be hottest UHP tyres available - although I don't believe they make them in 17", so you would have to upgrade to 18" at very least. I would recommend them on IS-F, or something with 400-500HP, or if you doing track days on your everyday tyres. On IS250 it is total waste to have such tyres. I didn't have PS4s, but I had PS4 which is one step down and even that was overkill - I would say PS4 are ideal on the car with probably 300HP+... say IS350 would be right car.

Where there anything particularly wrong with PS4? - no, they were ok, but at no point I could justify the price of them on the car. As it happens I got them for free as insurance was paying for all 4 wheel refurbishment and set of tyres, so when the shop asked me what I want in terms of tyres I specified PS4. 

Now if I would have to pay my own money, they are just not good value - compared to Dunlop Sportmaxx RT2 which they replaced, they were louder, fuel consumption was 10% up, little bit harder ride, but still reasonably comfortable. The biggest issues was the grip - it felt to me that I could not get them warm-up. On Dunlops on colder morning I would have to drive maybe for 5 min before they really felt good, on Michelins they just didn't feel right for almost entire journey to work (~45min) and maybe 10 min away from work or from how they would start to feel about right, even in summer. Now on high performance track tyre that is good as you don't want your tyres overheating after 2 laps, but on road tyres I always felt they were overkill for the car or any reasonable road speeds.

Sure if you drive for 200 miles to some scenic B-Road and hool the car there, then they would be perfect tyre for that - precise steering, very predictable and grippy when they are at their temp. 

Now I am talking about it as if it is some sort of semi-slick race tyre which needs warming-up, but that is the best way I can describe the feeling - they literally felt like mechanical grip is there, but compound is simply too cold to work at it's best. Likewise grip drop-off in winter was way more noticeable compared to RT2, which would grip consistently well all the way to +0C. PS4 would feel noticeably less grippy from ~+7C. Both RT2 and PS4 lasted me well, but RT2 were slightly better I have replaced them at 36k miles, whereas PS4 needed replacing at 30k miles.

 

[ahmedali44]

Yokohama BluEarth AE51 Tyres: bought these last Dec from tyre shoppers spend 200 or more get 5% off plus got fitted at home free ..by national tryes .

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[johnatg]

Allow me to throw a bit of a curve ball into this. Fact is, most of us don't have experience of enough different tyres to offer much of a comparative opinion. And it seems, tyre develpment is still moving on apace and experience of a tyre even 5 or 6 years ago isn't up with the latest thing.  I've mentioned Dunlop SportMaxx, Goodyear F1 Assymetric 5 and Continenental PremiumContact 6. I've had all those on a combination of my IS250 and GS300h over the last 10 years. I've also had Avon ZV7 which are great tyres for handling, braking etc but they don't last long.

But I've been reading:

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/features/91856/tyre-reviews-best-car-tyres-buy-now-2021

(Edit: the link takes you to results, but knock off the last bit and you'll get the full test narrative)

They at least do up to date comparative tests on a range of (10) tyres. And - Dunlop SportMaxx have sunk to the bottom of that particular heap - F1 and PremiumContact 6 now rank middling. In fact, any of the 10 tyres mentioned would be perfectly OK on our Lexus cars - but the outstanding champion in 2021 tests is........Hankook Ventus s1 Evo 3.

So there you have it - interesting read.

[peniole]

Thank you John, which is what I was trying to say. The CC's have also sunk in recent tests, which is why they switched to CC+ to keep ahead and now there's the CC2 and the treads and compounds keep getting updated all the time. P4S' are what, now a 5 year old design that is kept popular by people buying what they're used to.

Bugs my wife to no end the amount of research I put into purchases like tyres. I've had Bridgestone UHP summers a looong time ago (can't even remember the name), Continental extremecontact all season on the XF in Salt Lake, before that favoured the Yoko V4Ss for a while on my 2 door Accord, really liked the Dunlop winter sport (4 I think) I had on my civic up in Scotland, they're up to 5 now . I've also had a share of michelins the Michelin P4S on our XF before being sold, another set of michelins on the 4 door Accord, and the CC+ on the 4 door civid in Germany. Goodyear Wrangler ATs on my F150. I'm pretty sure I'm missing some sets, lots of travel and lots of swapped cars over the last 20+ years of driving but as one can see no preferred brand or tread, just whatever comes up trumps in testing for the type of driving I anticipate for where I am in the world.

[Linas.P]

59 minutes ago, johnatg said:

So there you have it - interesting read.

Interesting results... Although I always want to check what sizes were tested an on what car. 

What I have noticed is that most of the time testing is done on compact FWD car. Put same tyres on larger RWD car and results may be completely different. To my surprise in this case they used quite relevant size (225/45/17) because generally they tend to test smaller tyres (probably cost constrains). Still they used Golf as their test car.

As I said previously for example tyres like Michelin PS4 are outright no suitable and overkill even for IS250, so imagine how much of overkill they are on FWD Golf with 140 horse power. 

Finally, I am not saying results are invalid. I am just saying they are only correct for Golf on 225/45/17. Do exactly same test on IS250 with 225/40/18 + 255/35/18 and results may be other way around. And then there is subjective factors as well - each person going to put different importance for different metric. 

[Texas]

Far too many variables as to which tyre is ‘Best’ in my opinion, as long as it last a good while ( haaaa mine will prob Rot before they Wear out!), and They do not present me with any ‘surprises’ when used normally I’ll be content, again my Normal will not be same as everyone else’s Normal so like I said far to many variables and even a survey from a reputable source just adds fuel to the fire. ( 
That’s just my two penny worth and I’ll say no more about tyres again, promise because I just got 2 Dunlop’s for £240🙄😂

[Lex_utor]

My car came with Toyo tyres, which I also had experience with before on my other Japanese cars and liked.

Now off topic but somehow related, my summer tyres are 19". This is my first winter with the car and the winter tyres are on 17" and I can't tell you how much better the car rides on the 17 inches as opposed to the 19 inches. And that is on winter tyres. The 19" definitely look cooler and fill the arches nicely. But the ride and acceleration is better with the 17". Will have to have think when summer comes if I go back to the 19", get 17" summer wheels or hit a compromise with some 18". 😊

[Mr Vlad]

Or use a softer compound tyre on your 19's. The downside is they wear quicker.

[Linas.P]

21 hours ago, Lex_utor said:

My car came with Toyo tyres, which I also had experience with before on my other Japanese cars and liked.

Now off topic but somehow related, my summer tyres are 19". This is my first winter with the car and the winter tyres are on 17" and I can't tell you how much better the car rides on the 17 inches as opposed to the 19 inches. And that is on winter tyres. The 19" definitely look cooler and fill the arches nicely. But the ride and acceleration is better with the 17". Will have to have think when summer comes if I go back to the 19", get 17" summer wheels or hit a compromise with some 18". 😊

IS250 was never meant to wear 19"... it is noticeable less comfortable and fuel efficient on 18", but acceptable. 19" is definitely overkill. 

[J Henderson]

Difference in ride quality between summer & winter tyres is always accentuated at this time of year. Winter tyres remain soft & pliable in low temperatures, whereas summer tyres are rock hard, noisy and lack grip, regardless of size.

The only real factor I insist on regarding tyre choice, is the wet weather rating. No sale unless it's "A".

[Linas.P]

25 minutes ago, J Henderson said:

Winter tyres remain soft & pliable in low temperatures, whereas summer tyres are rock hard, noisy and lack grip, regardless of size.

Never had an issue on Dunlop Sportmax RT2, but it was very noticeable on Michelin PS4. 

One thing I agree on - wet rating is the key thing in UK, because that is going to be 65%+ of the mileage.

[ColinBarber]

36 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

One thing I agree on - wet rating is the key thing in UK, because that is going to be 65%+ of the mileage.

Whilst it doesn't feel like it, the number of days with rain the UK hasn't been more than 50% in over 20 years and averages around 42%. Still significant enough to pay attention to wet weather performance though - not that the rating on the tyre are a great indication of wet weather performance over the lifetime of the tyre.

[Texas]

Things go horribly wrong horribly fast when it’s wet and that’s when you want as much ‘help’ as poss! So +1 on the rain rating being right up there on specs.

[Lex_utor]

On 1/29/2022 at 3:34 PM, Linas.P said:

IS250 was never meant to wear 19"... it is noticeable less comfortable and fuel efficient on 18", but acceptable. 19" is definitely overkill. 

Does the IS-F have considerably different chassis and suspension then? It wears 19" and I had heard the whole XE20 platform had been developed with 19" in mind because they always planned for the IS-F.

[Lex_utor]

On 1/29/2022 at 12:33 PM, Mr Vlad said:

Or use a softer compound tyre on your 19's. The downside is they wear quicker.

Well, I have a slightly different opinion on it now that I took the car for a spirited back road drive yesterday, which I had not done in almost 2 months, and not on the 17" wheels. In town, I prefer the ride on the 17". But cornering in higher speeds, the extra stability and handling on the 19" is evident. The car had a lot more body roll yesterday on the 17" which it doesn't have on the 19". The whole handling was worse than with 19" actually. So I guess for summer I'm keeping the 19". Acceleration feels quicker on the 17". But I'm not drag racing. Handling and stability is more important for me. The car didn't feel nearly as planted and didn't inspire nearly as much confidence on the back roads yesterday as it did with 19" wheels.

Having said that, regardless, I just love driving it. Can't understand the comments of boring and soulless by some types like Jezza. I don't find it boring at all. To the point that I bought it with the intention of buying me a sports car for the weekend, but now I'm honestly thinking of just saving my money. Weekend drives on back roads seem to be fun enough in this, with the manual gearbox, larger tyres and sports exhaust. Maybe when the honeymoon period wears off. :) 

[Linas.P]

2 hours ago, Lex_utor said:

Does the IS-F have considerably different chassis and suspension then? It wears 19" and I had heard the whole XE20 platform had been developed with 19" in mind because they always planned for the IS-F.

Well... Yes it does and kind of doesn't - components are similar and many are the same, but it has wider track and various suspension changes, geometry different - IS-F has wider track in front than it does in the rear and that is opposite to IS250/350, IS-F is as well few inches longer. Besides early IS-Fs ride very harsh, at least consensus on IS-F section was that 2008-2009 cars have harsh ride and damping was changed in 2010 and 2011 which improved ride quality considerably.

[Guest bigbullhead]

Cross climates all day long 

[Texas]

What even if I don’t go out in the wet ( on purpose if I can help it!) and as for when it’s less than 3 degrees then I will take the work car ( 21 year old Mondeo 😀) because everyone else is not gonna be wearing CC’s 😂