Check VSC + engine light on

[Linas.P]

I have never seen more parts like ATF filter or gasket being sold on any mainstream sites for car parts. ATF-WS is generic thing, like engine oil, so I assume you could find it anywhere. As well - it may be more cost effective to get ATF from mainstream site and only get filter + gasket from eBay. 

Other thing you need to check, does the garage even accepts the parts from third parties and whenever they would warranty the job. I don't think you would like to be in position where they refuse any liability if you order wrong part, or if they mess-up the process and then just blame the parts you have provided. What I would say would be acceptable in this case - you take liability to bring right parts, they take liability for work carried out. It is not showstopper, but it would be best to ask the question and clarify it before the job is done (ideally in writing e.g. e-mail).

It would be ideal not to drive the car, but it is not end of the world... I understand that you already drove it to Halfords few times and to place which diagnosed it, so it won't make it much worse. More relevant question is how far you need to drive it - if it is 25 miles and you stay at relatively low speeds (say under 50MPH), I think that is ok, but if you have to drive for 150 miles on motorway, then I would say that is bad idea... or if you need to drive even for 25 miles, but in heavy traffic which will take you 1.5h to get there. In summary - try to do as short and as slow drives as possible, to stress the car as little as possible. 

[ikaruga24]

That is some great info to ask the garage directly in regards to their side of the work done by them. 

The site that has all these parts (buycarparts.co.uk) is pretty stacked with options. There is also an app they have called AUTODOC that you can look as well that has a lot going for it. 

I am using the car in a daily easy country route to go to work. Round-trip 22 miles, no traffic, can't drive faster than 35 miles/h anyway as it's in limp mode and doesn't go above 3rd gear so to maintain fuel economy it's about 2.5 to 2.8MRPM which translates between 30 and 35M/h. 

[Linas.P]

I would try not go above 2.5k RPM if possible, as well if car is stuck in 3rd gear (I have not seen it mentioned to be the case before) then this would be quite significant fault with whatever solenoid controls it. I am starting to think that just ATF change won't be enough.

It is possible that new fluid and codes reset would improve things, maybe get solenoid unstuck and over time it will improve with fresh fluid. However, I am starting to think that at very least you going to have to address that particular solenoid. One possibility - just identify which one it is it, get it out, clean it get it unstuck and see what happens next, other possibility is replacement. Third and least likely possibility, due to wrong fluid viscosity it was not working within spec and ECU simply blocked it via code, without any actual mechanical fault - but in such case clearing faults should allow you to shift again.

What happened on my old car was that from time to time it started to give solenoid performance codes, but they would be intermittent, few weeks later it gave another code (solenoid stuck open/closed) and at that time it would not shift into 6th at all. However, in my case it was purely ECU code - resetting it would remove the code and car would shift into 6th for few days again. On that basis my issue was more likely to be solved and was solved by fluid change. 

If you constantly have codes and even after clearing them you can't shift into 4th, or the codes reappears right away, then I think you will be in more serious trouble. I am not gearbox expert, but maybe discuss the options of solenoid change or at least cleaning with your mechanic. 

[bernieeccles]

This reminds me of an old episode of Wheeler Dealers and the Porsche Boxster S with the dodgy auto gearbox that could have cost £5000 for a new one 8 years ago. New oil and filter sorted it. Watch from 13 minutes in. 

 

[ikaruga24]

I have included the codes that come into the diagnostic concerning solenoid C and D so we are talking about a couple of them in the other topic about automatic transmission. The thing that is making me think that the solenoid has possibly developed soot from the inside is that the car was stationary for months (how many i don't know) before i purchased it. Again i am an idiot for not taking it to someone to thoroughly check it before i agreed to buy it but i suspect neglected servicing or the bare minimum as the seller bought the new version for his mother. 

So yes, limp mode does not limit my speed in a hard manner but it operates no more than 3rd gear which means i must keep it at 30 M/h for good use and economy. 

My beef with this now is that i refuse to believe that the previous owner did not know about this and just decided to sell it before he needed to do anything on it any longer. 

[Linas.P]

Cars sitting for prolonged time can certainly develop all sorts of weird issues. However, you are 10 times more lucky than me when it comes to buying - mine just suddenly stopped starting altogether 😄

The codes does not mean you going to be locked out of using certain gears. As I said I had codes and most of the time even with the code car would change the gears, so assuming that car does not shift just because it has code would be incorrect. You stating this kind of changes things a bit.

Now you will never know if seller knew about it or not - there is possibility that car was sitting and was only started, moved on driveway and because it never reached 50MPH, it never showed the problem. Now that you started driving it regularly it manifested itself. 

[Texas]

IS gearbox solenoid problem discussed here and fluid change appears to have sorted it!

 

[ikaruga24]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

Cars sitting for prolonged time can certainly develop all sorts of weird issues. However, you are 10 times more lucky than me when it comes to buying - mine just suddenly stopped starting altogether 😄

The codes does not mean you going to be locked out of using certain gears. As I said I had codes and most of the time even with the code car would change the gears, so assuming that car does not shift just because it has code would be incorrect. You stating this kind of changes things a bit.

Now you will never know if seller knew about it or not - there is possibility that car was sitting and was only started, moved on driveway and because it never reached 50MPH, it never showed the problem. Now that you started driving it regularly it manifested itself. 

Holy crap, not turning on at all? That's a scary thing assuming your Battery and spark plugs are good. 

The thing about limp mode as it was explained to me by Lexus is that the entire system works in conjuction with one another so if something goes wrong like the Check VSC which disables the TSC (hence the TSC light being on), check engine light on with the exclamation mark and thus the car goes into a safe mode to prevent gear changes and limit speed to stop further possible damage as it does not "understand" the type of issue you might be having. That to me makes sense as it just puts everything under one umbrella. 

By the way we have resented and cleared the codes twice but they come back instantly the moment you go over 20 M/h. 

[Linas.P]

9 minutes ago, ikaruga24 said:

Holy crap, not turning on at all? That's a scary thing assuming your battery and spark plugs are good. 

The thing about limp mode as it was explained to me by Lexus is that the entire system works in conjuction with one another so if something goes wrong like the Check VSC which disables the TSC (hence the TSC light being on), check engine light on with the exclamation mark and thus the car goes into a safe mode to prevent gear changes and limit speed to stop further possible damage as it does not "understand" the type of issue you might be having. That to me makes sense as it just puts everything under one umbrella. 

By the way we have resented and cleared the codes twice but they come back instantly the moment you go over 20 M/h. 

Makes sense - so basically as soon as it needs to change to 3rd gear (which is ~20mph), solenoid/solenoids responsible for it fails for some reason and sends the signal for the cod to be displayed again. In either case, I think issue is more than just "solenoid performance", it is likely stuck. Fluid change will not hurt, but solenoid may need some persuasion to start working again.  

[ikaruga24]

9 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Makes sense - so basically as soon as it needs to change to 3rd gear (which is ~20mph), solenoid/solenoids responsible for it fails for some reason and sends the signal for the cod to be displayed again. In either case, I think issue is more than just "solenoid performance", it is likely stuck. Fluid change will not hurt, but solenoid may need some persuasion to start working again.  

Yup that's pretty much the thing that has the code as well. "Solenoid 'c' performance or stuck off". Speaking about persuasion wouldn't the technicians that perform the flush and new fitting able to tell at a glance whether this will also need a "persuasion" along the process? 

[Linas.P]

9 minutes ago, ikaruga24 said:

Yup that's pretty much the thing that has the code as well. "Solenoid 'c' performance or stuck off". Speaking about persuasion wouldn't the technicians that perform the flush and new fitting able to tell at a glance whether this will also need a "persuasion" along the process? 

If you ask them - yes. But not at glance. 

You most likely not going to be able to even see solenoids without removing "valve body assembly":

[ikaruga24]

Right! I hope this does not introduce something too complex for them to check out. As I see the diagram i think i understand why and how they could be stuck. 

[ikaruga24]

Update, just drove to work. One funny thing is i did see it move to the 6th gear a couple of times. In general it stays up to the 3rd. I guess that's what solenoid C and D mean, 4th and 5th gear. 

I haven't tried sport mode to take it to the 6th myself. Does it make any difference for testing purposes? 

[Texas]

If there is ( or gearbox ECU thinks there is) a problem it will not let you do any potential damage by using the ‘flappy paddles’ the ECU is between them and the gearbox and should over-ride the paddles.

[steve2006]

Bit of light reading anyone? 😀

https://shop.ukrtrans.biz/wp-content/uploads/catalogs/A960E.pdf

[Linas.P]

2 hours ago, ikaruga24 said:

I haven't tried sport mode to take it to the 6th myself. Does it make any difference for testing purposes? 

Paddles works like "limiters" on IS250, so you can't change-up with paddles, you can just increase the limit. You can sort of down-shift, because you limit the highest gear your car is in and then it has to change down. But you can easily select 6th, yet car will stay in 3rd. 

[steve2006]

I noticed that Linas, mine shows 5 at a standstill but obviously does pull off in 5th gear.

[ikaruga24]

Right, no further need for trying anything with the puddles then. Now i am just waiting on the oil and items set (the one you showed me Lina) to be delivered to me and take the car to the workshop to perform the flushing and the solenoid check. 

Fingers crossed there is no excessive metal residues on the magnets and it will end the problem right there and then otherwise i will be stricken to have spent almost 5K total because i was an idiot to not have checked it with the dealer prior. 

[steve2006]

Just a quick clarification question, did you buy this car privately or from a car dealer? 

[ikaruga24]

32 minutes ago, steve2006 said:

Just a quick clarification question, did you buy this car privately or from a car dealer? 

Privately. Car dealer would have had a warranty and i would talk to him directly. I did ask for the seller to be sincere and he told me apart from new tyres and the big service coming the car is absolutely fine. It's been sitting there for a while as he has now bought his mom the new version of the same car. 

That's about it. Now you might say that this was foolish to take his word for it but i had driven it for about half hour before purchase and nothing seemed out of the ordinary. Smooth gear box changes, turned on like a champ, sharp steering, electronics and other things worked fine. It looked and felt proper and since i really needed the car i thought it to be a safe gamble to buy it with no further checks. 

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, ikaruga24 said:

It looked and felt proper and since i really needed the car i thought it to be a safe gamble to buy it with no further checks. 

I suspect current pandemic may be partially at fault. Lexus cars are very reliable and buying one is really quite simple. I have never seen basic issues to crop-up on these cars, things like checking lights and electric switches (as you do on other makes) - they all always work. However, these cars likes to be driven and maintained. So it is better to get the car which has loads of miles and relevant service history, than get car with low miles and lacking service.

What pandemic has done - many of these cares were now sitting, parked-up for extended periods of time, doing maybe only 1000 miles a year, last service 2 years ago and they are just not good for that. I even suspect there was no issue with gearbox before this cars was parked-up, but sitting for a while maybe ATF somehow sludge-up and as soon as you started driving it again it started clogging things-up. 

In short - I think this period of low use, going to bring a lot of owners to this forum with all sorts of issues originating simply from lack of use. 

[Malc]

3 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

with all sorts of issues originating simply from lack of use. 

I have posted from time to time over these past few months about such issues .  springing from nowhere it seems ...  last March particularly with electrical gremlins, water gremlins too ...  but after some use it's all back to " normal " whatever that can be for a car with 237k miles 

Gearbox issues have thankfully eluded me on this Ls400 for sure 

BUT reading all this I'll certainly think about having a Full Service done on the Honda Legend gearbox to see if that resolves the Xmas Lights on the dash 

Malc

[ikaruga24]

Update: I took it to the technicians today for the work. I just collected it and the lights came back on as i was leaving the garage. I can feel a change to the car, first it feels like limp mode is is no longer engaged though as it has much more pull (same as before it went limp mode the first time) but with the lights on it still refuses to go over the third gear. 

The diagnostic this time had the solenoids cleared but has something completely crazy... Something about EV power. I know for a fact that my car is NOT a hybrid. Could this have to do with the Battery and its 40% health we discovered with the other garage? I forgot to tell this one about the Battery. 

On Monday i have another appointment with them to check this more thoughtfully. Should we just put on a new Battery for tests sake before we even begin to get to grips with anything else? 

[Texas]

Battery should be a known 100% good Before trying to rectify any ( possible) electrical problems, as this car does tend to be picky on operating voltages.

Just like my daughters Fiat 500, the first signs of a weak Battery and the EML comes on along with a Red ‘Have Power Steering Checked’ and like the IS it has an electric power steering system so can draw a high current.

[ikaruga24]

1 hour ago, Texas said:

Battery should be a known 100% good Before trying to rectify any ( possible) electrical problems, as this car does tend to be picky on operating voltages.

Just like my daughters Fiat 500, the first signs of a weak battery and the EML comes on along with a Red ‘Have Power Steering Checked’ and like the IS it has an electric power steering system so can draw a high current.

Hmmm, then that means this is my next stop. If that is the case then 40% Battery health pretty much means no need to go forward.