Check VSC + engine light on

[ikaruga24]

Hi all. I just got the baby but i have this issue that popped up right now after a Tyre change. I took it back to Halfords to clear the light and reset the zero point on it but i have no idea how they did it and the car worked for about 10 minutes before it went limp mode and the VSC +engine light on yet again and back to safe/limp mode. 

Took it to an independent garage for a diagnostic check and it says that it has a C1201 - Engine/EV control system mulfunction along other codes that are directly affected by this but nothing concrete. The fuses are fine, the sensors pick up the speed fine, the car starts fine, everything seems normal. 

I saw a video on YouTube regarding this issue and you can do it with a paper clip yourself as long as the car is a completely flat surface with the wheels fully straight but i didn't do that as i am afraid to do it on my own. 

Does anyone ever had something similar on their IS 250? I have a wide array of things i have been reading regarding the issue from spark plugs to weird gas taps to going out Battery among others. Obviously i have booked myself a check in a Lexus Gatwick specialist but any experience is valuable as a new owner. 

[madasahatter]

I had the same a couple of years ago, yes the paper clip did work i think it was pin 4 and the one opposite.

[ikaruga24]

On 1/18/2022 at 6:15 PM, madasahatter said:

I had the same a couple of years ago, yes the paper clip did work i think it was pin 4 and the one opposite.

I tried it on my own. Didn't seem to do anything if i even did it right. I had to book an appointment with Lexus because i can't do limp mode any longer. One thing Halfords said to me is that the Battery is at 40% health and that can also create all sorts of electrical little issues like that but obviously they can't guarantee it is the main issue though it likely is. 

At any rate i will know tomorrow after the (always expensive) check and get a quote from Lexus for whatever they come up with. I will report back. 

[Texas]

+1 on having a perfect Battery before trying to diagnose electrical niggles ( especially on a 250, it seems to be very picky on voltage requirements)

[ikaruga24]

14 hours ago, Texas said:

+1 on having a perfect battery before trying to diagnose electrical niggles ( especially on a 250, it seems to be very picky on voltage requirements)

Doh, i did the exact opposite 😂. I am here now waiting for the check and quote to come from the workshop. I will not assume a price of a new Battery from Lexus because i will likely lose my hair. 

[Texas]

FYI New Bosch 068 S4 can be got for about £84 here.

https://www.tayna.co.uk/car-batteries/bosch/s4026/

[ikaruga24]

4 minutes ago, Texas said:

FYI New Bosch 068 S4 can be got for about £84 here.

https://www.tayna.co.uk/car-batteries/bosch/s4026/

Thank you very much! If it turns out indeed to be the Battery i will keep it as a reference. 

Because my model is out of warranty the check itself will cost 144 quid but should i decide to fix the issue with Lexus then this amount will pay into whatever quote they present to me. In short, whatever happens the 144 pounds are already gone. 

[Texas]

Lexus parts direct ( IIRC is the on-line section of Lexus Swindon!) can do a Battery for the 250 for £78+£6 p+p So the dealers where you are should’nt be a million miles different 😂😂😂

[ikaruga24]

OK i have some initial worrying news about solenoids in the transmission and that there may be a need for a new transmission. This horrified me as the cost of of a new transmission may very well exceed the price i have paid for the car in the first place. 

The technician has performed a software update on the vehicle as it was due for quite a while and is driving it around now but worst case scenario is a new transmission. 

Is this really all that can be done? I have read about transmission fluid changes that may very well clear all such issues but in all honesty i am sitting at burning coals right now.

Does anyone have experience if they deliberately leave out things to say or if you specifically have to ask for things to be done before we go into this transmission replacement story? 

 

[ikaruga24]

4 minutes ago, Texas said:

Lexus parts direct ( IIRC is the on-line section of Lexus Swindon!) can do a Battery for the 250 for £78+£6 p+p So the dealers where you are should’nt be a million miles different 😂😂😂

Got different news now 😖😩

[Texas]

If they (Lexus) are pointing towards Gearbox Solenoids then get the error codes in writing and start with the cheapest things first, ie atf change.

check this thread

 

[Texas]

And this one.

 

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, ikaruga24 said:

OK i have some initial worrying news about solenoids in the transmission and that there may be a need for a new transmission. This horrified me as the cost of of a new transmission may very well exceed the price i have paid for the car in the first place. 

The technician has performed a software update on the vehicle as it was due for quite a while and is driving it around now but worst case scenario is a new transmission. 

Is this really all that can be done? I have read about transmission fluid changes that may very well clear all such issues but in all honesty i am sitting at burning coals right now.

Does anyone have experience if they deliberately leave out things to say or if you specifically have to ask for things to be done before we go into this transmission replacement story? 

As Paul suggested, when it comes to gearbox solenoid related codes, the first step would be ATF refresh or replacement. Automatic transmission works basically on varying pressure of fluid and using solenoids to control it, meaning that fluid viscosity is key factor - if it is wrong, then you get issues with "solenoid performance" codes. The cost of this varies, but I would say full replacement of fluid will run you ~£300-400.

The next step would be stuck or faulty solenoids, which would require replacement of solenoids. I was advised against it by gearbox "specialists" near me when I had similar issues and they stated that in their experience it only solves issues "temporarily for few years or 30-50k miles" (this is direct quote). Now the advise was given on the basis of genuine solenoids from Toyota for £900+VAT, but I would like to note that 50k miles is not something I would call "temporary" and secondly, I have seen suitable set of generic solenoids on eBay for ~£140. If you ask me, then £140 for set of solenoids + what I assume would be £200 labour replacing them is certainly very good value for money if this extends gearbox life for another 50k miles. I assume adding ~£200 for ATF flush, new gasket and filter would be wise at this point, so you looking at ~£550 on top of previous fluid change.

The option gearbox shop suggested was to gear rebuild gearbox from them for ~£2000 at which point I sensed they are trying to upsell me. So they were saying these gearboxes can't be fixed, yet they would exchange my presumably "non-fixable" gearbox for the other used one they have "rebuilt" - sounds fishy to me. Isn't that the case that they take my gearbox, flush it with ATF few times, maybe replace few solenoids and resell it to the other sucker for £2000?

The final option is getting used gearbox, which could be ~£400-800, but here you running the risk of it being no better than the one it suppose to replace. Used gearboxes are real lottery and the idea is that if you get "low miles" one it should have at least the same amount of life as the old one. But how exactly you know how many miles the gearbox has done? Sau breakers claims it is from low mileages (40k miles for example car), but how would you check if it is 40k, 100k or 200k miles?

My car was at 190k miles when gerbox codes started popping-up, the fluid replacement solved the codes for the time and I know the next owner drove it at least 10k miles on it. After that car was parked for extended period during covid and now sorn, so I am not sure if issues cropped back-up. 

[ikaruga24]

Thank you for the help. I did a post in the automatic transmission topic with the codes that popped up in the diagnostic of an independent garage. 

Obviously being a dealership with a workshop their "recommended" route is a brand new transmission at nearly 6K so obviously I am looking at alternatives. 

Thank you for real. 

[ikaruga24]

17 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

As Paul suggested, when it comes to gearbox solenoid related codes, the first step would be ATF refresh or replacement. Automatic transmission works basically on varying pressure of fluid and using solenoids to control it, meaning that fluid viscosity is key factor - if it is wrong, then you get issues with "solenoid performance" codes. The cost of this varies, but I would say full replacement of fluid will run you ~£300-400.

The next step would be stuck or faulty solenoids, which would require replacement of solenoids. I was advised against it by gearbox "specialists" near me when I had similar issues and they stated that in their experience it only solves issues "temporarily for few years or 30-50k miles" (this is direct quote). Now the advise was given on the basis of genuine solenoids from Toyota for £900+VAT, but I would like to note that 50k miles is not something I would call "temporary" and secondly, I have seen suitable set of generic solenoids on ebay for ~£140. If you ask me, then £140 for set of solenoids + what I assume would be £200 labour replacing them is certainly very good value for money if this extends gearbox life for another 50k miles. I assume adding ~£200 for ATF flush, new gasket and filter would be wise at this point, so you looking at ~£550 on top of previous fluid change.

The option gearbox shop suggested was to gear rebuild gearbox from them for ~£2000 at which point I sensed they are trying to upsell me. So they were saying these gearboxes can't be fixed, yet they would exchange my presumably "non-fixable" gearbox for the other used one they have "rebuilt" - sounds fishy to me. Isn't that the case that they take my gearbox, flush it with ATF few times, maybe replace few solenoids and resell it to the other sucker for £2000?

The final option is getting used gearbox, which could be ~£400-800, but here you running the risk of it being no better than the one it suppose to replace. Used gearboxes are real lottery and the idea is that if you get "low miles" one it should have at least the same amount of life as the old one. But how exactly you know how many miles the gearbox has done? Sau breakers claims it is from low mileages (40k miles for example car), but how would you check if it is 40k, 100k or 200k miles?

My car was at 190k miles when gerbox codes started popping-up, the fluid replacement solved the codes for the time and I know the next owner drove it at least 10k miles on it. After that car was parked for extended period during covid and now sorn, so I am not sure if issues cropped back-up. 

That is a breath of fresh air for my ears because going from "new gearbox" to "new car" and into an approximate 500 to 600 quid for the main problem plus a few other replacements is indeed music at this point. 

I knew i would have to put some money over for a used privately sold vehicle but all this has already shot up the cost by a good margin. If that is all it takes to get the car going trouble free for another 50K miles as you say (temporary my *****, that's years worth of it) then so be it. 

Just for keeping it under perspective. 2600 for the vehicle, new tyres all round for 380, full headlight restoration 85, health check 50 (which also says brake pads replacement for the next MOT/service which will cost another pretty penny) and now this which means that the "cheap" private car cost me just as much as anything from a normal seller that would also include a warranty of some sort. 

Edit: any recommendations on garages? Does any garage able to do the ATF and solenoid work?

[Linas.P]

Not sure about Sussex, but I really struggled to find any place to do it in London. And even the place which I have eventually found - I was not happy with their advise, or at least prices. I took car to local guy that I know, but I would not say fully trust, he was not any sort of specialist of sorts - ok to work on things like suspension, brakes and similar, but not something more complex. The only benefit was that I was able to watch it being done and make sure it is done properly. It is not difficult job, but the key is to get fluid up-to temp before checking the fluid level, if the fluid is underfilled or overfilled it may be even worse. In my case it costed me £160 for parts AFT (I believe 4 or 5L), gasket and filter + £80 labour. The guy said he will charge me more if I keep telling him what to do 😄. So £220 total.

If you can't find any independent garages, then Lexus dealer could be persuaded to do it. At first they will say they won't do it, but if you really push for it, then there is official Lexus procedure on doing the job and they should agree. Price at Lexus will be closer ~£450. 

[Bluemarlin]

Don't know about Sussex, but I recently had my ATF fluid done by Japex in Hertforshire, an independent specialist.

They quoted £129 for a basic drain and fill (around 4L), but said it might cost more if the condition of the existing oil suggested that it needed complete replacement. Apparently the existing oil was ok so they only did the basic drain and fill for £129, which at the very least gave me the impression they were trustworthy and wouldn't charge for unneccessary work.

I was very happy with the service I got from them and imagine they could do what you needed. Not sure if that's too far for you though, but they can provide a loan car if needed, so might be worth giving them a call.

[ikaruga24]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

If you can't find any independent garages, then Lexus dealer could be persuaded to do it. At first they will say they won't do it, but if you really push for it, then there is official Lexus procedure on doing the job and they should agree. Price at Lexus will be closer ~£450. 

Thank you both. In case i can't find anyone else i will try to pursuade the main Lexus workshop to do it. By pushing it you don't mean anything drastic i hope, just being a nusance to keep me there for what i want and just be annoying? 

If it's not too much trouble do you remember the solenoid and ATF brands and/or models you got for yours? 

[Linas.P]

ATF was Toyota branded ATF-WS, filter and gasket were Toyota or OEM equivalent. I have not replaced solenoids so I don't know - I believe the cheap ones for £140 a set were Blueprint which is known generic brand of OE parts, I can't see the listing anymore and what is currently available are generic set made in China (to be honest they all are made there except of Toyota genuine ones). When it comes to solenoids I think more research is needed and I can't currently recommend any, but I guess it is too early to worry about it.

Try ATF change and see if that works first. In terms of persuading Lexus to do it - it is not nothing drastic, simply call them up and say that is what you want to do. At this point I am sure they will try to say that it is "unnecessary" and that "ATF is life-time fill", "sealed unit" and other crap to try to persuade you not to do it. Worst case scenario if they really don't want to do it they will quote some silly price - say £800 to get rid of you. Other thing they may say - the work will not be warranted and that it won't fix your issue, or they can't guarantee it will help. Which is kind of true - nobody can guarantee ATF change will fix solenoid issues, but this is known to fix issues quite often in experience of many members.

In short - you probably wouldn't have issue if it would have been done in time, but at this point it can't hurt. Chances of it solving an issue is probably 50/50. Depends on how long the issue existed and how bad it got.

[Mr Vlad]

Lexus Stockport did a drain refill and charged £180. Just over 2 litres of oil was replaced. I did have to tell them it was possible to do as I've seen numerous videos on YouTube. They did it whilst they had my car for its service. That was the August before last so about 18 months ago. 

[Linas.P]

2 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

Lexus Stockport did a drain refill and charged £180. Just over 2 litres of oil was replaced. I did have to tell them it was possible to do as I've seen numerous videos on YouTube. They did it whilst they had my car for its service. That was the August before last so about 18 months ago. 

Yeah so that is what is called "top-up". They do it usually with service and it is not as hard to convince them to do ~0.5-1L at the time - I have seen in service history they done that regularly on my old car starting as low as 40k miles. 2L is kind of more that usual, but same principle.

The "refill", is little bit more involved and requires removing pan, replacing gasket, filter and ~4L of ATF. This is harder to get Lexus to agree to, but considering there are already error codes it is the least what the car needs. This as well gives an opportunity to look at how filter looks, is there any stuff on the bottom on the pan (there are magnets on the bottom) and better inspect if there is any damage. At this point if they find a lot of metal shaving in the pan - you can be sure there is no point continuing with ATF change as gearbox would be totalled by then. But it is just necessary to do it, because there is no other way to physically inspect for damage.

[ikaruga24]

I can't thank everyone enough for this. This will at least put something on the table for me to work with and hopefully solve the issue once and for all until my next one whichever that may be but until then hopefully this one gives me at least a good couple of years of stress free motoring. 

[ikaruga24]

On 1/24/2022 at 8:24 PM, Linas.P said:

Yeah so that is what is called "top-up". They do it usually with service and it is not as hard to convince them to do ~0.5-1L at the time - I have seen in service history they done that regularly on my old car starting as low as 40k miles. 2L is kind of more that usual, but same principle.

The "refill", is little bit more involved and requires removing pan, replacing gasket, filter and ~4L of ATF. This is harder to get Lexus to agree to, but considering there are already error codes it is the least what the car needs. This as well gives an opportunity to look at how filter looks, is there any stuff on the bottom on the pan (there are magnets on the bottom) and better inspect if there is any damage. At this point if they find a lot of metal shaving in the pan - you can be sure there is no point continuing with ATF change as gearbox would be totalled by then. But it is just necessary to do it, because there is no other way to physically inspect for damage.

Update. I did find a shop that can do the job but they can't seem to find where to get the fluid, gasket and filter for my model from their partners. 

Are there any online trusted shops where i could do the purchase of the items myself and then take the parts to them so they can do the job? 

[Linas.P]

Doesn't sound very trusty if they can't get what is basically generic Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF). Preferred is Toyota or Aisin ATF-WS (OEM) which is widely available. Toyota/Lexus should be able to supply these parts if all other sources fail.

I have used something like this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/402355014060

Although, I would be very careful to check with seller that gasket has right holes and that filter has right fitment (there are oval and round ones available). ATF itself is fairly standard fluid. 

[ikaruga24]

53 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Doesn't sound very trusty if they can't get what is basically generic Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF). Preferred is Toyota or Aisin ATF-WS (OEM) which is widely available. Toyota/Lexus should be able to supply these parts if all other sources fail.

I have used something like this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/402355014060

Although, I would be very careful to check with seller that gasket has right holes and that filter has right fitment (there are oval and round ones available). ATF itself is fairly standard fluid. 

The shop is this one, it appears legit though you can never tell. 

https://www.jaautoscrawley.co.uk/crawley.html

Thank you for the information about the oil set. I am also looking at the buy car parts.co.uk and they also seem to have a whole host of items. 

I am confused as to how the items are being sold. Is it a set of oil + filter +gasket or do i buy these separately? 

Also, can i still drive my car (even in limp mode) or is it a big no no until the work is done?