Prototype EV Battery gives 750 mile Range

[NemesisUK]

From the ONE company. The next generation Battery perhaps, certainly gives a realistic range for commercial use

https://one.ai/range/

 

[Boxbrownie]

17 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

From the ONE company. The next generation battery perhaps, certainly gives a realistic range for commercial use

https://one.ai/range/

 

You do realise just over half of all vans stay within 15 miles of their base every day so most EV vans (apart from initial cost) are perfectly suited.

 

For long range truck delivery I still believe hydrogen power will be the source.

[Steve_S]

On long range trucks I guess the market will tell us in the next few years as Tesla are finally about to start producing their large semi-truck from their new Texas plant.

 

[Linas.P]

The key issue I see with this approach is that current solution of range seems to be putting ever bigger batteries, or packing them more dense, yet we must realise that this is no different from simply putting large fuel tank in "gas-guzzler". It is not sustainable... I remember talks about oil running out by 2100, but we have even smaller reserves of usable lithium and it is expected to run out by 2040s even at current rate, but we have not replaced even 3% of ICEVs.

Just putting more cells into Battery, using less insulation, packaging it more densely isn't a progress. Sure I know that even on existing Battery technology we can still improve a little and store slightly more energy, but we have approached the limit of technology and now any investment is diminishing returns.

Solid state batteries would be better, because the technology is different there i.e. with same amount of lithium they can store more energy and they better in other ways. That is progress.

As well at the moment electricity is not subject to taxes, but it will be. So sooner or later it is not going to be only range that matters but miles/KWH will start matter as well. So the way we should be looking at this - how much KWH Battery can store per kg of rare earth metals used and CO2 produced in making, instead of having a race of who can connect more cells together to make the biggest Battery.

[Barry14UK]

Did you notice how slowly the Tesla was going and how quickly it was passed so what would that translate to in normal use?  Actually, Tesla are having to up their game as the Lucid Air with a range of 520 miles is said to go further on a single charge than any current Tesla offering.  https://news.sky.com/story/lucid-air-dream-edition-electric-car-goes-into-production-in-us-with-a-520-mile-range-12425989

[Linas.P]

This discussion just sound really bizarre to me - from when measuring whose fuel tank is bigger became a thing? 

"My car can fill 65L and do 400 miles .... no no no - mine is better I can put 85L and go for 600 miles.... but wait there is new car with secondary tank totalling 150L and could do a 1000 miles!" Just sounds ridiculous. By this logic fuel tanker is the best vehicle ever!

Manufacturers just trying to go around inherent BEV issue of slow charging by increasing Battery size to ridiculous sizes, but that is not even the issue. I would be happy to own BEV even with 200 miles range if I could recharge it in under 5 min and the Battery would not deteriorate over time. I can't think of any time ever where I have driven 520 miles or indeed 700 miles without stopping. This just isn't realistic use case, but use case of 5 min coffee stop after 200 miles and at the same time refilling is real use case. It is just funny how BEVs manufacturers indoctrinates people in belief that "it is not product that it is bad - you are using it wrong". 🤯

[Barry14UK]

One of the problems at present is that either the public chargers are a different type, to what you need, are out of service when you get there, or maybe others are queuing to charge.  This means you might well have to use some of your almost expended energy going somewhere else.  So rather than risk losing all power, you need to find a charging point much earlier, thereby shortening range.  So having more Battery capacity provides greater confidence.  By contrast, this recent petrol panic buying apart, you know there are a multitude of petrol stations and in the event of one running dry, there is usually another just a few miles away. 

It is going to take time for the situation to change because there has been a surge in the uptake of BEV vehicles with more drivers seeking out charging points and there needs to be universal chargers and payment scheme, perhaps Tesla excepted as they have LED the way for Tesla owners establishing their own network previously. 

[ColinBarber]

4 hours ago, Barry14UK said:

Did you notice how slowly the Tesla was going and how quickly it was passed so what would that translate to in normal use?  Actually, Tesla are having to up their game as the Lucid Air with a range of 520 miles is said to go further on a single charge than any current Tesla offering.  https://news.sky.com/story/lucid-air-dream-edition-electric-car-goes-into-production-in-us-with-a-520-mile-range-12425989

This had nothing to do with Tesla the company. The Battery company purchased a Tesla vehicle and modified it with their own Battery.

The Lucid has some nice developments in it but in reality it goes far because it has a very large Battery. As Linas states, just putting in a larger and larger Battery isn't the answer. Charging the thing will take a long time unless you happen to be at a very fast charger - the majority of public charger in the UK are nearer 50 kW, than 300 kW. 

[jumbojake]

agree, the typical range available now is overkill for most people, most of the time ... they need to focus on faster charging.

To me, if they could put a weeks worth of charge in a car in less time it takes to do your weekly shopping, then it creates a massive draw for supermarkets and to a large extend avoids the panic about roadside charging.. whatever they do, needs massive (and brave) investment.

[hockeyedwards]

Dont't forget to NOT charge your Battery to 100% to help extend its life...

Also have seen way too many things on instagram where people have been at a 100+KWh charger and it is only drawing low 20-30's - eliminating your 'fast charge' capability

And whole heartedly cannot wait for there to be restrictions (which have already been talked about) on charging hours/ amount, due to national grid not being able to cope, that'll be a meme in itself!

Deadlines being brought ever nearer to appease climate regulations with essentially no forethought on how to invest in infrastructure to make it all happen

My dad has just swapped his RX450h (2016) for a Jaguar I-Pace (2019) as his daily driver and I think that might be a shock to the system, admittedly he has an advantage, a mass solar array on his house and energy storage capabilities that allow him to charge 'essentially' free, I forget the charge capabilities i.e KWh as it was only used on a Smart EV before with 100miles or less range.

@Linas.P always seem to find each other in these EV topics 😉 🤣

[Linas.P]

11 minutes ago, hockeyedwards said:

that allow him to charge 'essentially' free

I think goverment will soon try to take control of that! Imagine that - being allowed to use the energy you have produced only on certain hours or paying tax on your own electricity if you use it for the car. So use it while you can 😄

[Boxbrownie]

11 minutes ago, hockeyedwards said:

Dont't forget to NOT charge your battery to 100% to help extend its life...

Total tosh…….your living in the world of internet rumours and false truths 

EVs have plenty of protection from over charging as well as under depletion, usually around 10% spare capacity top and bottom, oddly enough Battery technology and management has moved on since the days of the Voltaic Pile 😉

[Linas.P]

4 minutes ago, Boxbrownie said:

Total tosh…….your living in the world of internet rumours and false truths 

EVs have plenty of protection from over charging as well as under depletion, usually around 10% spare capacity top and bottom, oddly enough battery technology and management has moved on since the days of the Voltaic Pile 😉

Nobody said anything about overcharging, simply charging Lithium batteries above 80% and or running them down below 20% degrades the capacity faster. This is fact. 

The spare capacity is true, but there is no value for the consumer, in the end of the day you still have to carry exactly the same Battery in your car, just last 10% of it can't be used, or it is reserved for complete basic/critical functions and emergency. The space capacity is really being used to hide the fact of how quickly Battery degrades from the owner for first couple of years. Batteries do degrade, but because there is hidden margin owners won't see as much difference after just few years or on colder morning - it is clever ploy to fool the owners. 

[jumbojake]

I think that's a theoretical risk .... I agree with Boxbrownie..... don't  think it is possible to overcharge a lithium Battery on a modern device, the management software  controls charging rate to avoid it.... that was a problem 10years ago, but most phones can't do it now and I would be surprised if any modern cars do.

[hockeyedwards]

33 minutes ago, Boxbrownie said:

Total tosh…….your living in the world of internet rumours and false truths

Merely stating what some manufacturers display as a message on screen during charging, only aware as I have seen multiple posts online.

Also fairly sure Lithium batteries degrade faster with full charges and use below a certain %

Regarding 'internet rumour' - I rarely post anything I believe to be factual unless I'm sure it is correct, I hate being mislead and I appreciate others would too, so I tend to do a decent amount of reading before typing it out 🙂

[hockeyedwards]

@Boxbrownie @jumbojake - you two should chat about overcharging, seeing as you're the only ones mentioning it...

[Boxbrownie]

9 minutes ago, hockeyedwards said:

Merely stating what some manufacturers display as a message on screen during charging, only aware as I have seen multiple posts online.

Also fairly sure Lithium batteries degrade faster with full charges and use below a certain %

Regarding 'internet rumour' - I rarely post anything I believe to be factual unless I'm sure it is correct, I hate being mislead and I appreciate others would too, so I tend to do a decent amount of reading before typing it out 🙂

I’d like to see a screen shot of that message, what model vehicle was it?

[Boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, hockeyedwards said:

Dont't forget to NOT charge your battery to 100% to help extend its life...

We were the only ones mentioning over charging?  Pardon? 🤣

[Linas.P]

45 minutes ago, Boxbrownie said:

We were the only ones mentioning over charging?  Pardon? 🤣

Where do you see "overcharging" in this sentence? 

[Las Palmas]

3 hours ago, Barry14UK said:

One of the problems at present is that either the public chargers are a different type, to what you need, are out of service when you get there, or maybe others are queuing to charge. 

The biggest problem is that there here on earth are not enough raw materials to get even 25% of cars, vans, busses, trucks drive on Battery power. Not material to make the batteries, not enough electric power to charge all these. There is nothing in EV cars that will help the planet. But who cares? It is only the lives of following generations, our children and their children we are ruining.

EV is stupid politicians dream given to them of lobbyists hired by Battery car makers. Who cares? We let the same stupid politicians' rule again next election.

 

Battery life:

Overcharging? Manufacturers of Lithium-Ion batteries recommend to keep charging between 20 and 80% of capacity to keep the batteries last longer.

[NemesisUK]

19 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

Battery life:

Overcharging? Manufacturers of Lithium-Ion batteries recommend to keep charging between 20 and 80% of capacity to keep the batteries last longer.

And most modern devices have smart control to do just that. I have numerous devices sitting on their chargers permanently with no detriment to their operational durance. The consumer need not concern themselves about it. It would be very strange if current BEVs don't control this to provide the optimum Battery life

[ColinBarber]

2 hours ago, Boxbrownie said:

Total tosh…….your living in the world of internet rumours and false truths 

It's not total tosh but as with most things it is more nuanced than true or false; it very much depends on the Battery chemistry being used - Lithium Ion is just a general term for many different types.

If we take the best selling EV the Tesla M3 as an example:

The Long Range and Performance models use NMA or NCA technology and should not be charged regularly to 100%. The Tesla system warns the owner not to do so, as does the owners manual, and recommends daily charging to a max of 90%, and many people go well below this if they don't need the range on a daily basis. If you need 100% for a long trip then it should be scheduled so that it reaches 100% when you want to leave - you shouldn't leave it charged at 100% for many hours/days as that ages the Battery.

The base RWD / SR+ model uses an LFP Battery. This can been charged to 100%, and Tesla recommends that it is charged to 100% at least every week to keep the range calibration correct. LFP doesn't suffer cycle ageing as badly as others either - 6,000+ cycles and retain 90% capacity. The disadvantage to LFP is capacity - it isn't as dense as the other types which is way the RWD has less range.

 

If you have a Lenovo laptop - keep it on permanent change for a few days and it will recommend it drops the charge level to 50% and maintain it at that level until you need to use it on the move again to protect the Battery.

[ColinBarber]

5 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

And most modern devices have smart control to do just that. I have numerous devices sitting on their chargers permanently with no detriment to their operational durance. The consumer need not concern themselves about it. I

They don't overcharge and you don't have to concern yourself but if you avoid the extremes you prolong your Battery.

I normally don't let my Iphone charge above 80% or drop below 20%. My wife doesn't care. In terms of cycle count we are about the same but the difference is usable capacity - I'm still on 100% health after 2 years, her phone is on 91%.

[NemesisUK]

2 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

They don't overcharge and you don't have to concern yourself but if you avoid the extremes you prolong your battery.

I normally don't let my iPhone charge above 80% or drop below 20%. My wife doesn't care. In terms of cycle count we are about the same but the difference is usable capacity - I'm still on 100% health after 2 years, her phone is on 91%.

Is that percentage as displayed by the phone, or measured independently? The display will show 100% but it actuality it will be the optimum 'maximum', whatever that may be for the device/battery.

I do remember the days when one had to be careful about charging and depleting one's mobile phones. Nowadays it's just plug it in and it will take whatever it requires for best 'health'

[ColinBarber]

8 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

Is that percentage as displayed by the phone, or measured independently? The display will show 100% but it actuality it will be the optimum 'maximum', whatever that may be for the device/battery.

Independently. The phone will learn your schedule and charge to 100% when you need it, rather that it being kept at 100% for hours beforehand, but it still takes the Battery well past a point where charge level ageing exponentially ramps up.

This isn't really a problem - drop a few % in capacity and you don't really notice and most people don't keep their phones for a long time anyway - but it shows that Lithium Ion batteries need to be looked after if you want to retain as much capacity as possible. The devices these batteries are in, be that a phone or a car, put convenience over preserving ultimate Battery life.