CT200h Buying advice please

[Thackeray]

18 hours ago, Howplum said:

One question I forgot to ask, of anyone who is willing to respond, is "what prompted a change to a hybrid in the first place?"

As you can possibly tell I am a bit of a sceptic about the advantages of switching to a hybrid, hence all the questions!

Probably an unusual answer, but I was mostly fascinated by the elegance and mechanical simplicity of the transmission. And on the practical side, I thought the mechanical simplicity would bring better reliability than a conventional car.

I've read somewhere that a conventional automatic transmission has around 300 or more parts, compared with just 22 in the first Prius. That's a lot fewer parts to go wrong. The hybrid transmission also means there's no need for a starter motor, an alternator or a clutch because these functions are built in to the basic design of the transmission. Again, fewer parts to go wrong. This is borne out by a Which? report that the CT has the best reliability record in the UK. Las Palmas above also mentioned the reliability of his car.

You may already be familiar with how the transmission works but for anyone who isn't I'll add this graphic which I've also mentioned in some previous posts. (Incidentally, ignore the chain final drive in the video. Only the earliest Priuses used a chain for the final drive and I don't think any Lexuses ever did.)

 

[Thackeray]

20 hours ago, Howplum said:

Interestingly they mention electricity, as motive power, is used "Typically, up to 15mph and in reverse"

In reverse these hybrid cars are always (not "typically") powered by electricity. They have no reverse gear as such in the transmission, as a conventional gearbox has. Instead, when the gear selector is put into reverse, the electric motor that powers the road-wheels (Motor-Generator 2 - MG2) is simply run backwards. The engine may run or not, depending on other conditions.

[ColinBarber]

On 1/26/2022 at 5:17 PM, Howplum said:

Thanks William, that explains it beautifully. This is Toyota's explanation of how a hybrid electric vehicle works, although being of a promotional nature it doesn't dwell on any limitations, naturally. Still, it's very useful for HEV "virgins".

 https://www.toyota.co.uk/hybrid/

Interestingly they mention electricity, as motive power, is used "Typically, up to 15mph and in reverse". No mention of possible range, but how far would one want to drive at 15mph!

As to my question about heating first thing, both my BMW and LS400 don't do anything until (presumably) a certain water temperature is reached, which is probably true of any petrol or diesel car nowadays, including HEVs. 

In the past week my BMW diesel has averaged 52 mpg on a mixture of local trips and a couple of longer runs, although I need to monitor it for a longer period to get a better picture. For local trips, from a cold start, the mpg is in the 30s.

One question I forgot to ask, of anyone who is willing to respond, is "what prompted a change to a hybrid in the first place?"

As you can possibly tell I am a bit of a sceptic about the advantages of switching to a hybrid, hence all the questions!

The reality is, if your motivation is purely mpg then you are probably better off with your diesel, as you aren't really going to beat your figures above in a CT. If you want a smoother drivetrain, want to reduce emissions or move from diesel to petrol then the CT may be a better choice.

 

There is no real need to understand how far the vehicle will travel, or at what speed, under electric power as this isn't an EV. The system fully manages the use of petrol and electric power automatically.

The fundamental advantage of a hybrid is to provide the performance of a vehicle with a certain size engine, but by using a smaller engine, with the smaller engine economy. In the case of the CT 200h, the 200 indicates a 2.0 l engine but it actually uses a 1.8 l engine. The IS300h gives the power of a 3.0 l engine but uses a 2.4 l engine etc.

If you have a 1.8 l and a 2.0 l engine of the same design producing enough power to propel a vehicle at a constant speed, say 50 mph, then the 1.8 l engine will always be more economical due to less friction/weight/pumping losses in the engine. However the 1.8 l engine doesn't produce the same power to give the required performance during acceleration - here the electric motor and Battery of the hybrid system supplements the petrol engine to give the extra power needed to match the larger engine. There are other efficiencies involving the CVT transmission, regen braking and what can be thought of as a highly advanced start/stop system which all contribute to better economy and lower emissions compared to the conventional 2.0 l petrol vehicle. 

 

[Las Palmas]

And when stopping on a hill the CT does not roll backwards the first seconds you release the brake and not as it old times needed to use hand brake to not roll back into the car behind you.

Smooth acceleration, few cars have anything similar to the Hybrid gearing in Lexus/Toyota.

[Howplum]

I must admit it was my wife's idea to consider a hybrid, not for reasons of economy or environmental concerns, but I suspect because of alarmist headlines about the future of diesel engines. I am not discounting the idea, but any change would have to have at least one considerable benefit before shelling out several thousand pounds for a car that is probably of a similar age and mileage to the BMW.

Apparently the daughter of a friend has vowed not to buy another hybrid because the catalytic converter was stolen from her Prius!

Having said all that, you all seem very pleased with your choice of car, so a CT 200h is certainly one to keep on the shortlist.

[ColinBarber]

16 hours ago, Howplum said:

Apparently the daughter of a friend has vowed not to buy another hybrid because the catalytic converter was stolen from her Prius!

It's a problem, although it seems to be spreading more and more to non-hybrid vehicles as well so she may not be immune forever 😠

[Las Palmas]

Just wait till electric cars are more common than now and expect problems, not only with batteries. Maybe already this winter.