Electrical problems or just battery?

[Lex_utor]

Hi.

The Battery on my IS250 is just a little 1 year old. But this winter it has gone already 2 times. Because of home office I'm not driving very often. The car would not respond at all. Keyfod did nothing. I thought maybe it was the keyfod Battery. But it was the car Battery. Apparently it was flat. Even though it was bought new December 2020. 

The first time it happened, I jumped started it and then drove about 30 min. to recharge it. Then didn't drive for 5 days and it was gone again. This time I was advised to buy a charger and let the Battery fully charge overnight, which I did.  Drove it once or twice and it seemed normal again. keyfob was controlling the car again etc.  But then I got quarantined, so the car is sitting now for about 3 weeks.  Today I tried the keyfob and the car wouldn't respond. So like the first 2 times that it happened, I used the mechanical key to open the car. But this time, as soon as I opened the door with the mechanical key, the alarm went off! Not fun as it was already 21:00  and I couldn't stop it as the remote key did nothing and the car dashboard said key not found or whatever. But the strange thing is the dash lit up and the steering wheel moved up and down when I tried pressing the start button, as it does when it is working normally. But the car wouldn't start. The the alarm finally stopped. I just left it alone for now. 

So I'm wondering if anybody has had this problem? Is it a common thing with these cars that the Battery goes on winter if they are not driven regularly? Or do I have an electrical "leak" somewhere eating up my Battery? Or maybe this time around it wasn't the car Battery but the keyfob Battery as the alarm went off and the dashboard etc lit up? Or could this last time all be just a pane because of a possible electrical problem and it lit up and moved the steering wheel because it was confused or out of control?

 

I would be interested in hearing if anybody has had any similar experiences. Thanks in advance.  

[madasahatter]

What make of Battery is it?? I bought a yuasa 5 year guarantee absolutely crap Battery. Bought from Halfords i have taken back 3 times.

Say nothing wrong with it, after 2 days dead as a dodo. Bought a bosch starts on the button every time even when left over a period of time.

[Lex_utor]

I want to say Varta.  But I would have to have a look. It was already in the car when I bought it back in August. 

[m4rkw]

You may have a parasitic draw issue, look on youtube for how to check for this. 

[Linas.P]

2 hours ago, Lex_utor said:

The first time it happened, I jumped started it and then drove about 30 min. to recharge it. Then didn't drive for 5 days and it was gone again. This time I was advised to buy a charger and let the battery fully charge overnight, which I did.  Drove it once or twice and it seemed normal again. Keyfob was controlling the car again etc.  But then I got quarantined, so the car is sitting now for about 3 weeks. 

30 mins won't be enough to charge the Battery if it needed jump starting, you need 20 mins just to recover the amount needed for single engine start. I think it may be parasitic drain issue if it would be fully charged Battery and died in 3 days, but because it was never properly charged then that was just enough to kill it again. 

I would say - brand new Battery could last 6-8 weeks without driving, but after a while it drops to maybe 3-4 weeks. 

Your option here - buy Battery charger and charge it fully, then I am sure it will last for over a month.

[Lex_utor]

27 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

30 mins won't be enough to charge the battery if it needed jump starting, you need 20 mins just to recover the amount needed for single engine start. I think it may be parasitic drain issue if it would be fully charged battery and died in 3 days, but because it was never properly charged then that was just enough to kill it again. 

I would say - brand new battery could last 6-8 weeks without driving, but after a while it drops to maybe 3-4 weeks. 

Your option here - buy battery charger and charge it fully, then I am sure it will last for over a month.

This is what I did after the second time. I left it charging overnight. But then I didn't drive it for 3-4 weeks and the above happened today, where the alarm went off. If the alarm went off and the dash lit up and steering wheel moved, it doesn't look like the Battery is totally dead this time, right? The first 2 times the car was totally dead. 

[J Henderson]

Sounds like there's a power drain somewhere. Or the Battery is a dud. Or both.

Had a similar experience when I had my dashcam "always-on". The Battery drain was small enough to not matter when the car was used daily, but if left parked-up for about 3 or 4 days, there wasn't enough juice left in the Battery to start.

I endured the same rigmarole of having to remove the cap on the door handle and use the physical key, whilst the alarm was blaring. Only in my case, this was happening at 1am! 😚

[Lex_utor]

31 minutes ago, J Henderson said:

Sounds like there's a power drain somewhere. Or the battery is a dud. Or both.

Had a similar experience when I had my dashcam "always-on". The battery drain was small enough to not matter when the car was used daily, but if left parked-up for about 3 or 4 days, there wasn't enough juice left in the battery to start.

I endured the same rigmarole of having to remove the cap on the door handle and use the physical key, whilst the alarm was blaring. Only in my case, this was happening at 1am! 😚

It is really annoying right. And I guess no way to stop the alarm? But this also means the Battery is not fully flat, right? Reason why I thought this time could be the keyfob Battery instead.  The first 2 times the car was totally dead.

[Barry14UK]

3 hours ago, madasahatter said:

What make of battery is it?? I bought a yuasa 5 year guarantee absolutely crap battery. Bought from halfords i have taken back 3 times.

Say nothing wrong with it, after 2 days dead as a dodo. Bought a bosch starts on the button every time even when left over a period of time.

Bosch is widely sold in UK and certainly a very good brand as it Varta, part of same company now.  Yuasa also have a very good reputation.  However, you can read stories of any of the 3 mentioned failing prematurely occasionally.  Batteries need to be tested beyond voltage to establish if they are good with load tester and analyser and it is not clear whether this was done by Halfords,  Also, batteries are supplied in various qualities by manufacturers and you need one appropriate to your application.  If you don't have an analyser you could get this done independently and if Battery is faulty get a replacement under warranty.  This assumes Battery has not been allowed to discharge to the extent that it has sulfated.  I have used batteries from the three named (amongst others) on cars and additionally Yuasa on motor cycles, where they are probably used more than any other, all without problem for reasonable duration.

PS. I currently have a Halfords (Yuasa) AGM Battery in my RX450h.

[Linas.P]

10 hours ago, Lex_utor said:

This is what I did after the second time. I left it charging overnight. But then I didn't drive it for 3-4 weeks and the above happened today, where the alarm went off. If the alarm went off and the dash lit up and steering wheel moved, it doesn't look like the battery is totally dead this time, right? The first 2 times the car was totally dead. 

Sounds to me like it is about right for used Battery. As I said - even brand new Battery in perfect condition would die after 6-8 weeks. If you Battery lasted 3-4 weeks, then it just shows your Battery is average condition and not as good as new. Under normal circumstances this would not be the problem and it is fully serviceable Battery, you just need to drive the car more or take the Battery out for charging (or use Battery tenner if possible).

Replacing Battery would be pointless under such circumstances, say you get brand new Battery which lasts 6-8 weeks. After leaving the car once for 3-4 weeks, it may still work, but after another 3-4 weeks you will be in same position as you are now. Lead-acid batteries deteriorate quickly if deep-cycled and that is what driving car only once in couple of weeks does. 

The only way not to have issues with alarm is "not to arm it" in the first place i.e. lock the car with the key blade and not fob, which means that alarm is not on and when you reconnect the Battery it won't trigger. 

[markeyszoo]

I had a similar issue. Left the car at airport for 10 days and returned to find it flat as can be. Only thing running was the alarm and the dashcam. The dashcam should only have worked if jolted so could not fully blame that alone. Drove home 25 miles and it was fine showing 13 to 13.8 volts. Purposely left it alone for 36 hours and it fired up no bother. Been no problem since.

[Lex_utor]

8 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Sounds to me like it is about right for used battery. As I said - even brand new battery in perfect condition would die after 6-8 weeks. If you battery lasted 3-4 weeks, then it just shows your battery is average condition and not as good as new. Under normal circumstances this would not be the problem and it is fully serviceable battery, you just need to drive the car more or take the battery out for charging (or use battery tenner if possible).

Replacing battery would be pointless under such circumstances, say you get brand new battery which lasts 6-8 weeks. After leaving the car once for 3-4 weeks, it may still work, but after another 3-4 weeks you will be in same position as you are now. Lead-acid batteries deteriorate quickly if deep-cycled and that is what driving car only once in couple of weeks does. 

The only way not to have issues with alarm is "not to arm it" in the first place i.e. lock the car with the key blade and not fob, which means that alarm is not on and when you reconnect the battery it won't trigger. 

Thanks. I haven't tried the car again. Hopefully the alarm won't kick in this time. How long is it supposed to beep for? Will it stop if I shut the door again and lock it with the key blade? Then unlock it again. 

Do you really need to disconnect the Battery from the car to recharge it?

How do people do with classic cars and other cars they don't drive often? 

 

[Texas]

Classic car owners tend to leave something like a CTEK Battery charging/condition unit connected 24/7. 

[Linas.P]

It is difficult to say - for me it took like 10 minutes 11PM at night so it was hyper-embarrassing. What seems to have solved it for me - I got inside and tried to start engine as soon as possible. As soon as immobiliser was triggered to unlock the steering wheel and engine started, the alarm stopped.

If you can connect the tenner to the car (i.e. if you have garage) you don't need to disconnect the Battery to charge it. That is how people maintain classic car batteries, provided they have garage or driveway where they can connect it to electricity. 

[Barry14UK]

4 hours ago, Lex_utor said:

How do people do with classic cars and other cars they don't drive often? 

I have a 21 year old E39 petrol BMW which has quite a heavy draw on the Battery so I fitted the larger size diesel Battery but only use car very occasionally.  I therefore use a 'Disconnect'*  interposed between the Battery negative terminal and negative lead.  It only requires a couple of turns on the 'Disconnect' to reconnect and only means resetting the clock which I don't bother to do.  It does mean the benefit of the alarm is lost while the Battery is disconnected but any thief would have to break the door lock, the ignition  and boot lock plus fit a charged Battery.  I then only have to very occasionally to bring the Battery up to full charge using a trickle charger.  Unfortunately, disconnecting the Battery on my Lexus in this way would cause more problems so is probably not practical on more modern cars.  

* This sort of thing, https://www.amazon.co.uk/CZC-AUTO-Disconnect-Isolator-Vehicles/dp/B08C2WK32N/ref=sr_1_8?_encoding=UTF8&c=ts&keywords=Car%2BBattery%2BSwitches&qid=1642461951&s=automotive&sr=1-8&ts_id=4919955031&th=1

[Linas.P]

42 minutes ago, Barry14UK said:

I then only have to very occasionally to bring the battery up to full charge using a trickle charger.  Unfortunately, disconnecting the battery on my Lexus in this way would cause more problems so is probably not practical on more modern cars.  

Yeah, on IS250 is way more painful - at very least windows reset, but alarm likes to get angry about it, the key hole cover would surely got missing or broken and so on. Then there is the case of ECU keep getting reset, which often a good thing when you want ECU to re-learn previous owner driving patterns, but having it to re-adjust for each drive just isn't most efficient. Then there may be a risk of some weird ECU communication issues to pop-up as well, because effectively ECUs have to re-sync each time. 

When I say "kill-switch" is an option, I mean exactly such "isolator/disconnector", but it is kind of last resort thing and it is more suitable for simpler cars. Although in other hand - if Battery dies and has to be removed to be charged, this is effectively the same thing, just less fiddly. 

[Lex_utor]

On 1/17/2022 at 8:31 PM, Linas.P said:

It is difficult to say - for me it took like 10 minutes 11PM at night so it was hyper-embarrassing. What seems to have solved it for me - I got inside and tried to start engine as soon as possible. As soon as immobiliser was triggered to unlock the steering wheel and engine started, the alarm stopped.

If you can connect the tenner to the car (i.e. if you have garage) you don't need to disconnect the battery to charge it. That is how people maintain classic car batteries, provided they have garage or driveway where they can connect it to electricity. 

Ok, the car is on charger now. I will leave it overnight on winter charging mode.

About the alarm, today it just wouldn't stop. Till the Battery was so weak that only the "siren" continued and the horn gave out. Then everything gave out and only a clicking sound continued, which it seems was the horn trying its best to sound. Then I connected it to the Battery charger and after a while it all stopped.

I must say this was a real hassle. I have never had a car do this to me. To make matters worse, the charger was in the boot and as we know the boot is electric. So it wouldn't open. And the blade key wouldn't fit in the emergency lock on the boot without removing my whole rear tag/license holder. All of that with the alarm on full blast. Hopefully by tomorrow morning it will be fully charged and the hassle will be over.  

[Lex_utor]

On 1/18/2022 at 12:36 AM, Barry14UK said:

I have a 21 year old E39 petrol BMW which has quite a heavy draw on the battery so I fitted the larger size diesel battery but only use car very occasionally.  I therefore use a 'Disconnect'*  interposed between the battery negative terminal and negative lead.  It only requires a couple of turns on the 'Disconnect' to reconnect and only means resetting the clock which I don't bother to do.  It does mean the benefit of the alarm is lost while the battery is disconnected but any thief would have to break the door lock, the ignition  and boot lock plus fit a charged battery.  I then only have to very occasionally to bring the battery up to full charge using a trickle charger.  Unfortunately, disconnecting the battery on my Lexus in this way would cause more problems so is probably not practical on more modern cars.  

* This sort of thing, https://www.amazon.co.uk/CZC-AUTO-Disconnect-Isolator-Vehicles/dp/B08C2WK32N/ref=sr_1_8?_encoding=UTF8&c=ts&keywords=Car%2BBattery%2BSwitches&qid=1642461951&s=automotive&sr=1-8&ts_id=4919955031&th=1

I'm seriously thinking of just leaving my Battery charger connected then. It's a digital one which is supposedly smart. So it won't overcharge it and will supposedly only maintain the charge. Is that a smart idea?

[Lex_utor]

On 1/18/2022 at 1:24 AM, Linas.P said:

Yeah, on IS250 is way more painful - at very least windows reset, but alarm likes to get angry about it, the key hole cover would surely got missing or broken and so on. Then there is the case of ECU keep getting reset, which often a good thing when you want ECU to re-learn previous owner driving patterns, but having it to re-adjust for each drive just isn't most efficient. Then there may be a risk of some weird ECU communication issues to pop-up as well, because effectively ECUs have to re-sync each time. 

When I say "kill-switch" is an option, I mean exactly such "isolator/disconnector", but it is kind of last resort thing and it is more suitable for simpler cars. Although in other hand - if battery dies and has to be removed to be charged, this is effectively the same thing, just less fiddly. 

I didn't remove the Battery. I just connected the charger with the Battery still in the car. It's in the garage. 

But why do you say the key hole cover would surely got missing or broken?

[Linas.P]

I just need to clarify the context - in London (and in wider UK) most of the cars are parked on the road or in large communal garages, some people have driveways, but very few have garages. So when I said cover would be missing or broken I assumed that this applies i.e. you have to take Battery out of the car, lock the doors with the key by removing the cover,  then next day reconnect the Battery, put the cover back and and repeat in the evening.

If you keep car in garage, then you in a lucky situation, it will not be a problem for you - you simply buy Battery "maintainer"/charger, connect it to the Battery without removing it from the car and you can lock the car or even leave it unlocked, my comment won't apply. That is obviously safest and most convenient way to maintain your Battery charged-up. 

[Lex_utor]

2 hours ago, Linas.P said:

I just need to clarify the context - in London (and in wider UK) most of the cars are parked on the road or in large communal garages, some people have driveways, but very few have garages. So when I said cover would be missing or broken I assumed that this applies i.e. you have to take battery out of the car, lock the doors with the key by removing the cover,  then next day reconnect the battery, put the cover back and and repeat in the evening.

If you keep car in garage, then you in a lucky situation, it will not be a problem for you - you simply buy battery "maintainer"/charger, connect it to the battery without removing it from the car and you can lock the car or even leave it unlocked, my comment won't apply. That is obviously safest and most convenient way to maintain your battery charged-up. 

Ah ok. Thanks for explaining. That makes sense. Let's hope when summer comes I won't need to have the Battery hooked at all times. Last summer it was ok. 

[LenT]

On 1/16/2022 at 11:12 PM, J Henderson said:

Had a similar experience when I had my dashcam "always-on". The battery drain was small enough to not matter when the car was used daily, but if left parked-up for about 3 or 4 days, there wasn't enough juice left in the battery to start.

My BlackVue dashcam is powered by what they call the Power Magic Pro.  Basically it supplies current while the ignition is off, but meters the consumption so that the Battery charge level doesn’t fall below a preset level.  I see no reason why it wouldn’t work with any dashcam - provided the camera connection is the same.

Alternatively, they also market independent Battery packs that takeover when the ignition is off and recharge during normal driving.
 

https://blackvue.co.uk/products/power-magic-pro/

 

[Lex_utor]

Update: So as I mentioned above, " the alarm just wouldn't stop. Till the Battery was so weak that only the "siren" continued and the horn gave out. Then everything gave out and only a clicking sound continued, which it seems was the horn trying its best to sound off. Then I connected it to the Battery charger and after a while it all stopped." What I didn't know was that the alarm finally stopped, because the charger was broken and wasn't charging. So the alarm stopped basically because the Battery went fully empty or something. At least low enough that it could no longer power the alarm at all. I only found that out next day when I checked to see if the Battery was fully charged. I saw the charger wasn't working and the Battery just "fully died".

I didn't have the time to buy another charger till today. So I bought a new one today and as soon as I plugged the charger to the Battery and the charger to the electricity the alarm started going again and locked the car. Still not loud. But loud enough. So I disconnected the charger from the electricity and tried opening the doors and then locking the doors of the car and then plug the charger again to the electricity. Same thing. Alarm starts going.

Will I have to have the alarm going the whole time till the Battery is charged enough so I can deactivate the alarm with the keyfob? That can take like 8 hours. 😞  Is this normal?

Will the only solution be disconnecting the Battery from the car and charging it outside of the car? I would think the alarm would probably not go off then, once I re connected the Battery to the car? Although I would have thought the Battery dying would be enough to reset the alarm and stop it. Thanks again for the help. 

 

[Lex_utor]

Update: After taking the Battery out, and recharging it, it's all fine again. Let's see how many more times it happens this winter. Hopefully not anymore. 

Took a hour drive in it yesterday for the first time in almost 2 months. Still can't figure why some people say Lexus are boring and soulless. Love driving it. Just read a not very nice old review from Jezza from back when the car was new in 2006 and couldn't disagree more with him here. 

[LenT]

1 hour ago, Lex_utor said:

Update: After taking the battery out, and recharging it, it's all fine again. Let's see how many more times it happens this winter. Hopefully not anymore. 

Glad to hear this problem is now resolved.  Did you get a trickle charger so that you can leave the Battery in situ and keep it charged?

1 hour ago, Lex_utor said: 

Took a hour drive in it yesterday for the first time in almost 2 months. Still can't figure why some people say Lexus are boring and soulless. Love driving it.

I don’t think of mine as a ‘sports’ car but as a very comfortable cruiser that can be safely driven briskly in a rewarding fashion.  Mine has the excellent V6 up front and it sounds quite entertaining when given some encouragement.

1 hour ago, Lex_utor said:

 Just read a not very nice old review from Jezza from back when the car was new in 2006 and couldn't disagree more with him here. 

He’s still at it!

He was rather sniffy about the performance of an ES 300h F Sport in yesterday’s Sunday Times magazine.  But he did still laud Lexus build quality.

I suspect that some adverse comments regarding performance are down to expectations based on styling, price and brand image.  Although some Lexus models are clearly high performance, I suggest most are in the comfortable saloon bracket.  And that suits me just fine!