2022 lack of leather

Al D-Much · January 12, 2022

I've just tried the Lexus UK configurator for the 2022 NX 350h
Shame you can't have a leather option unless you go for an F-Sport or Takumi grade vehicle.

To spec up to my current 70 plate NX Premium Plus it's almost another £10K!!!
Just glad I'll be keeping mine until it falls apart.

J Henderson · January 12, 2022

Much like reducing the use of plastic in food packaging etc, the diminishing use of leather in car interiors seems to be something of an industry trend that's probably here to stay and become even more prevalent.

Basically its being done on the grounds of sustainability & eco-friendlness, rather than cost-cutting. Volvo even use it as a selling point.

In a few years, it'll probably be demonised as much as having a diesel engine, so enjoy your leather seats whilst you still can. 🙂

First_Lexus · January 12, 2022

1 hour ago, J Henderson said:

Much like reducing the use of plastic in food packaging etc, the diminishing use of leather in car interiors seems to be something of an industry trend that's probably here to stay and become even more prevalent.

Basically its being done on the grounds of sustainability & eco-friendlness, rather than cost-cutting. Volvo even use it as a selling point.

In a few years, it'll probably be demonised as much as having a diesel engine, so enjoy your leather seats whilst you still can. 🙂

Mercedes have been using ‘Artico’ - Artificial Cow - since the 1960s…

…but agree, I’ll be enjoying ‘real’ leather while I can!!

Linas.P · January 12, 2022

2 hours ago, J Henderson said:

sustainability & eco-friendlness, rather than cost-cutting. Volvo even use it as a selling point.

It is being done for excuse of it, but mostly for cost cutting. It is undeniable that making seats from recycled plastic bags is cheaper than from real leather. From practical point of view it is actually hard to say what is more practical to have - leather of vinyl, but from point of view of "luxury" it is undeniable that leather is more "premium/expensive/exclusive" material than plastic.

The problem is that people want to have their cake and eat it too - they want luxury car, but they want to pretend they care for environment. If they really care about environment then they wouldn't be buying brand new luxury SUV. So companies creates this "eco-friendliness" illusion so that people can feel better about it and saves a lot of money too.

I found it annoyingly fake and disingenuous, in old days you either had "luxury" car with leather option or you had a plain simple cloth. Now it seems all cars have leather, but 50% (and increasing) is now fake. In other hand if we would keep the cars for 10-20 years I don't see issue using real leather, after all it is almost by product of meat production (thought they may want to take this pleasure away too), however in our consumer world, most new car buyers changes the cars every 2-3 years at which point it is probably fair to question if the leather actually adds any value and if that is sustainable.

Lexus started introducing this with CT, later IS, RC, ES and NX lower trim levels all came with Tahara "leather" which is fancy name for vinyl and the only way to still get real leather is to order Takumi or F-Sport. The only good thing is that when you get leather in Lexus it is at least very nice semi-aniline leather.

NemesisUK · January 12, 2022

Originally luxury cars such as Roll Royce, Mercedes etc would have had cloth seats in velvet or soft wool for the passengers. Only the driver/chauffeur would sit on leather!

Husky125 · January 12, 2022

New to this forum and have my first Lexus on order, now due March, but rather confused over spec. I have ordered a NX 350h with the premium plus pack which clearly states leather seats, is this correct?

NemesisUK · January 12, 2022

That's what it says in the specification for the premium plus pack.

Otherwise it would say Tahara, as it does in the lower spec packs

Husky125 · January 12, 2022

Many thanks, now just the wait.

Don C · January 13, 2022

5 hours ago, Linas.P said:

It is being done for excuse of it, but mostly for cost cutting. It is undeniable that making seats from recycled plastic bags is cheaper than from real leather. From practical point of view it is actually hard to say what is more practical to have - leather of vinyl, but from point of view of "luxury" it is undeniable that leather is more "premium/expensive/exclusive" material than plastic.

The problem is that people want to have their cake and eat it too - they want luxury car, but they want to pretend they care for environment. If they really care about environment then they wouldn't be buying brand new luxury SUV. So companies creates this "eco-friendliness" illusion so that people can feel better about it and saves a lot of money too.

I found it annoyingly fake and disingenuous, in old days you either had "luxury" car with leather option or you had a plain simple cloth. Now it seems all cars have leather, but 50% (and increasing) is now fake. In other hand if we would keep the cars for 10-20 years I don't see issue using real leather, after all it is almost by product of meat production (thought they may want to take this pleasure away too), however in our consumer world, most new car buyers changes the cars every 2-3 years at which point it is probably fair to question if the leather actually adds any value and if that is sustainable.

Lexus started introducing this with CT, later IS, RC, ES and NX lower trim levels all came with Tahara "leather" which is fancy name for vinyl and the only way to still get real leather is to order Takumi or F-Sport. The only good thing is that when you get leather in Lexus it is at least very nice semi-aniline leather.

It isn’t being done for cost cutting, it’s being done because it needs to be done. The amount of hides that are used in car production all adds to the meat thing and it needs stopping. I’m amazed it didn’t come out of COP26. Modern synthetics like Alcantara are far more durable than leather and nicer to sit on. Leather is hot in summer and cold in winter so heated and ventilated seats are needed. I’d opt out of leather and have alcantara or fabric every day of the week.

Don C · January 13, 2022

8 hours ago, Al D-Much said:

I've just tried the Lexus UK configurator for the 2022 NX 350h
Shame you can't have a leather option unless you go for an F-Sport or Takumi grade vehicle.

To spec up to my current 70 plate NX Premium Plus it's almost another £10K!!!
Just glad I'll be keeping mine until it falls apart.

You’ve already told us your not having one because carwow managed to rock the centre console. Now it’s because there’s no leather. There’s always somebody on this forum ready to tell those of us that ordered the new model why we shouldn’t have done. If we took any notice, Lexus might as well stop car production.

Linas.P · January 13, 2022

3 minutes ago, Don C said:

It isn’t being done for cost cutting, it’s being done because it needs to be done. The amount of hides that are used in car production all adds to the meat thing and it needs stopping. I’m amazed it didn’t come out of COP26. Modern synthetics like Alcantara are far more durable than leather and nicer to sit on. Leather is hot in summer and cold in winter so heated and ventilated seats are needed. I’d opt out of leather and have alcantara or fabric every day of the week.

And that is why you buy Lexus with heated and ventilated seats. When I buy luxury car with supposedly leather seats I want it to actually be leather, smell like leather and cost like leather. When I buy burger I want burger with actual beef and not some stupid vegan substitute. In the entire pollution generated by making the car, the pollution which comes from leather for the seats is literally negligible.

It is very convenient when there are people like you who actually buys this lame excuse. 1m2 of good quality leather costs like £400-3000, where 1m2 of whatever crap tahara is made of costs like £0.50... so to say it isn't "cost saving" or rather gauging and playing on people ignorance/lack of knowledge just makes no sense. And whenever seats are made from actual leather or vinyl in the lifetime of the car makes no difference.

If you really want to be very environmentally friendly, then buy used car with 100k miles and drive it for 20 years until it has 500k, because then you can truly claim you have added no extra CO2 at the time you got it.

Al D-Much · January 13, 2022

11 hours ago, Don C said:

You’ve already told us your not having one because carwow managed to rock the centre console. Now it’s because there’s no leather. There’s always somebody on this forum ready to tell those of us that ordered the new model why we shouldn’t have done. If we took any notice, Lexus might as well stop car production.

'You’ve already told us your not having one because carwow managed to rock the centre console.'
Actually I didn't say that at all. No idea where you got that from.
I said the centre console along with the steering wheel are too Toyota RAV-4 for my liking, along with the etch-a-sketch touch screen and all the black plastic .
But yes a lack of leather in a luxury vehicle is an issue for me.

Also, I've never said anything along the lines of "you should / shouldn't" buy a car that you want. I just said it's not for me.

Al D-Much · January 13, 2022

11 hours ago, Don C said:

It isn’t being done for cost cutting, it’s being done because it needs to be done. The amount of hides that are used in car production all adds to the meat thing and it needs stopping. I’m amazed it didn’t come out of COP26. Modern synthetics like Alcantara are far more durable than leather and nicer to sit on. Leather is hot in summer and cold in winter so heated and ventilated seats are needed. I’d opt out of leather and have alcantara or fabric every day of the week.

Except it isn't 😂

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/alcantara-better-leather-cars/
Also having Tahara seats (Lexus brand synthetic leather) means they will also be hot/cold depending on the season.

Linas.P · January 13, 2022

1 hour ago, Al D-Much said:

Except it isn't 😂

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/alcantara-better-leather-cars/
Also having Tahara seats (Lexus brand synthetic leather) means they will also be hot/cold depending on the season.

Tahara has all the drawbacks of leather and none of the benefits! Well - maybe the only "benefit" is that is vegan if anyone cares, but I don't and for me it is actually negative, I am becoming allergic to this word and ideology/religion of vegans.

I hate Alcantara as well, because it is being pushed as an "upgrade" and some sort of fancy luxury material, whereas it has literally 68% of plastic bag material mixed with 32% of kitchen sponge. And because many people can't tell Alcantara and Suede apart it kind of works.

Besides I don't really agree that Alcantara is more expensive than Leather - maybe it was true in 1970 when it was just developed, now it is basically the generic fake suede and sells for pennies. Even the genuine Alcantara made in Italy is like £60 1m2 retail, but I am sure wholesale is much much cheaper. I can't find any leather for so cheap, but even then there are many varieties of leather, perhaps in some circumstances it could be more expensive then cheapest leather, but for most part it is definitely cheaper material than good quality automotive leather which would be suitable to use in Luxury car.

I appreciate it in racing cars - it is functional, non-slippery material, same as I appreciate carbon fibre there (weight saving) - but in Luxury car I expect real leather and preferably wood or metal inlays.

First_Lexus · January 13, 2022

14 hours ago, Don C said:

I’d opt out of leather and have alcantara or fabric every day of the week.

I’d definitely like an option for high quality cloth or velour as an alternative to leather. When I was growing up I remember my Father had his Rover 3500 SD1 with beige velour…and a later Renault 25 GTX too. They were both fantastically comfortable cars from memory.

When did leather start being a ‘default’ choice for ‘luxury’ cars (as well as for things as varied as the Metro Vanden Plas and Ford Fiesta Ghia!) - assume it was an eighties excess thing?

Linas.P · January 13, 2022

38 minutes ago, First_Lexus said:

I’d definitely like an option for high quality cloth or velour as an alternative to leather. When I was growing up I remember my Father had his Rover 3500 SD1 with beige velour…and a later Renault 25 GTX too. They were both fantastically comfortable cars from memory.

When did leather start being a ‘default’ choice for ‘luxury’ cars (as well as for things as varied as the Metro Vanden Plas and Ford Fiesta Ghia!) - assume it was an eighties excess thing?

As far back as first automobile and probably even before, I would argue that even horse carriages had leather... So we potentially talking millennia. The furnishing of the seats in cars (and carriages) really comes from home furniture trends and techniques, so you could have couch literally made of wood, or covered is some sort of cloth, velour, fur or leather... again those were all option for centuries. Leather was always a luxury item, realistically only kings could have had their carriage upholstered in leather, especially the sorts of leather which would be comfortable and durable.

Looking back to automobiles, I would say it was always default from the beginning. Take any "luxury brand" as example and leather was always option for high-end, velour sometimes came as default cheaper option, or on special order for hot/cold climates. For more common cars I think velour actually was short term fashion in "colourful" 70s an then it went back to leather in 90's. The reason for Velour is mostly because good quality leather was prohibitively expensive for most of the history, secondly until recently leather was only available in fairly natural brown grain, maybe slightly tinted (red, black, yellow, green), so if anyone wanted any sort of fancy and very bright colour it was not an option.

So in short - leather was always sign of luxury, way before automobiles were invented. The proliferation of leather as default luxury option in cars I would say coincided with changes in technology, where leather became easier to soften, colour, seal and treat in the way that it became cheaper, more durable and in the right colour (so I would say 90's with introduction of sealed leather) - it is not some sort of "recent fad" or fashion. If there is any reason why leather was not used at certain period of time, it would have been some sort of limitations - cost, softness, colour, shape. Fabrics are just cheaper, easier to make into particular colour or follow some shapes.

Some exceptions - hot climates, until cooled seats and air condition it was an issue, but does not apply for most of Europe (and World). Very cold climates, same again - if you building vehicle for arctic expedition maybe leather was not a default choice.

Alan305 · January 13, 2022

It’s not just leather, it’s Lexus leather. The seats on my old LS430 were just as good at 220,000 as at 7,000 when I bought it. Anything else is just cheaper.

royoftherovers · January 13, 2022

1 hour ago, Alan305 said:

It’s not just leather, it’s Lexus leather. The seats on my old LS430 were just as good at 220,000 as at 7,000 when I bought it. Anything else is just cheaper.

Nice advert you penned for M&S Alan.👍👍👍

My Merc leather ditto as yours after 252,000 miles.

First_Lexus · January 14, 2022

18 hours ago, Alan305 said:

It’s not just leather, it’s Lexus leather. The seats on my old LS430 were just as good at 220,000 as at 7,000 when I bought it. Anything else is just cheaper.

Have to say the leather seats in my NX - although not tested to that extent - were as good when I traded it in at almost four years old as they were when brand new. No wear, no creases, they hadn’t gone shiny - very impressive.

A previous Honda Accord, although good, didn’t have the same quality with a few creases visible at four years old and some wear on the driver side bolster.

mitadoc · February 4, 2022

Silly new trends.

mitadoc · February 5, 2022

I hope Tahara is as durable as leather.

royoftherovers · February 5, 2022

3 minutes ago, mitadoc said:

I hope Tahara is as durable as leather.

You`ll be lucky Dimi.

MB Motoring Forums in UK have been inundated with complaints of one kind or another about artificial leather.

No complaints about real leather.

mitadoc · February 5, 2022

1 hour ago, royoftherovers said:

You`ll be lucky Dimi.

MB Motoring Forums in UK have been inundated with complaints of one kind or another about artificial leather.

No complaints about real leather.

I rely on this. I got lucky with my MB Artico - no problems at all. I am sure Lexus cars are well thought and the materials are carefully chosen and tried/tested.

Barry14UK · February 5, 2022

Manufacturers are always looking at ways to cut costs so offering 'leather' as an upgrade at extra cost suits them. Then you have some largely followed testers who always make a point of extoling models that don't have leather seats or where non leather options are available for the benefit of those who believe it is more environmentally friendly and preferable to avoid using 'animal skins'. George of Autogefuhl, who does good and in depth tests, is a case in point and when challenged on this in comments gives a strong defence of his opinion. However, my preference is for good quality leather and being an old fashioned guy I prefer genuine wood dashes and cappings to the carbon fibre (fake or real) and colored plastic highlights generally substituted nowadays.