Not Shure what to buy RC 300h or go for f30 330e

[Jensen_309]

Planing to buy car by the end of this year, but I cannot decide what to go for 

Should I go for RC300h F sport pre facelift or facelift? What are known issues with them? 

Or should I go for 330e 

 

Forgot to add: I am in Netherlands if that matters

[dutchie01]

Have a testdrive with both, not comparable really. Then park the BM in front of your house and look at it. Repeat the next day with the RC. If you still like the BMW please visit the optician.

[Linas.P]

Hi Jensen,

There are no known "issues" with these cars... maybe some small niggles which applies to both FL and pre-FL, but not much more. In the list I would add tendency to wear inside of the tyre more (would apply to BWM 330e as well, most RWD cars), the design of the roof makes water drip onto you in the rain when opening the window/door, I found boot annoying to close on pre-FL (FL has a auto close button), I hate how indicator stalk operates... and I am struggle to think about anything else.  I had RC200t thought which has more issues of it's own, but I have extensively driven RC300h as well.

In UK, there is advantage of having pre-FL, because you would get £20 road tax, instead of £140+£340 for FL, but I don't know what are the rules in Netherlands. If you have a choice without sacrificing much then go with FL, it benefits from LSS+ system (radar cruise, pre-crash safety, steering assist etc.) which was not fitted to pre-FL F-sport (you had to get it as an option on Premier only).

Compared to BMW 330e... it is quite different car and either has their own benefits. For me the looks matters so RC was obvious choice and I wanted coupe (still can't understand why BMW can't make 430e ?!), so that was what guided my decision. But 330e is plug-in hybrid, meaning you can and you need to charge it at home. If you can - then you get first ~25km for free just driving on electricity, if that is all the commute you do in the day, you may never need to add fuel, or add very little. However, when that range runs out BMW just becomes "normal" 2L Turbo Petrol and if you not charge it at home, then it will always be that. And BMW is actually fast car - 6.1s to 100km/h. And it is practical compared to Lexus, which has unusable back seats and most 300hs don't have folding seats in the rear either, so boot space is very limited. 

I would add here that BMW built quality is mediocre for this generation, what surprised me most was excessive body flex, it flexes so much that you can put your finger between door and front panel and feel it being pinched when climbing to park on the kerb. This creates some weird creeks and rattles and I am talking here about brand new car with 800miles on the clock. 

RC build quality is excellent... but lacks a bit of edge for a luxury car, most taken out directly from Lexus IS, not a bad thing, still miles more luxurious than BMW, but could be better considering other models in the Lexus range.

Lexus RC on other hand is hybrid, you can't charge it and it always uses petrol, but after first 25km it would probably have better fuel economy, especially in start/stop traffic. One particular thing which disappointed me the most was performance, I just don't like how the power is delivered and car in my opinion is unacceptably slow (8.2s to 100km/h) and it feels even slower. Not relevant in UK, but may be relevant to you if you ever on Autobahn is top speed - RC only does 112MPH (180kmh), whereas BMW is standard 155MPH electronically limited (250kmh). You will see many members disagree with me here as they think it is "fast enough"... So what I would say - if you after sports car and 0-100 times matters to you, then 300h is maybe one to avoid, however if you after comfortable commuter car which "looks fast", then it is great car.

One final point - avoid standard audio as a plague (horrible 6 speakers system), perhaps ok if you just listen to the radio, but not suitable for any sorts of music. The premium and ML systems are both equally good.

As suggested, test drive is you best bet - they are quite different cars with their strengths and weakness. 

 

[Jensen_309]

27 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

Have a testdrive with both, not comparable really. Then park the BM in front of your house and look at it. Repeat the next day with the RC. If you still like the BMW please visit the optician.

Well my boss often tells me that I need glasses so that might be problem... 

I am aware that RC is beautiful and probably more comfortable but I was wondering dose it have some kinds of issues because well BMW and reliability... only plus i see in it is price cheeper taxes and insurance bit if it breaks often then money you save on tax and insurance will be eaten by repairs.

 

Thanks for the answer 

[Linas.P]

26 minutes ago, Jensen_309 said:

I was wondering dose it have some kinds of issues because well BMW and reliability...

Lexus has what is called "Relax", meaning you get 10 years of free warranty (up to a 100k miles, not sure if it translates to 160k km in Europe) as long as you service it at Lexus dealership. On top of that Lexus cars are reliable anyway (kind of rendering that warranty pointless to be honest, especially for first 10 years). 

I would not say Lexus RC would be more comfortable than BMW 330e, RC is rather low and hard "sports car". It is still comfortable, but it isn't limousine - F-Sport will have adaptable suspension, which is great but not the softest thing in the world. FL gets benefit of being able to set suspension modes independently i.e. you can have engine on sport and suspension on comfort (you can't do this on pre-FL). The difference is minor, because it is still low car with 19" wheels and low profile tyres.

I think it would be important to mention here, but on BMW you must immanently replace the tyres - all BMW 3-series comes standard with rock hard and unbelievably terrible Run-Flat tyres... so in that aspect Lexus is definitely more comfortable than BMW. But if you fit normal tyres on BMW, then I think it will be ever so slightly softer as far as suspension is concerned. 

[Jensen_309]

18 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Hi Jensen,

There are no known "issues" with these cars... maybe some small niggles which applies to both FL and pre-FL, but not much more. In the list I would add tendency to wear inside of the tyre more (would apply to BWM 330e as well, most RWD cars), the design of the roof makes water drip onto you in the rain when opening the window/door, I found boot annoying to close on pre-FL (FL has a auto close button)... and I am struggle to think about anything else.  I had RC200t thought which has more issues of it's own, but I have extensively driven RC300h as well.

In UK, there is advantage of having pre-FL, because you would get £20 road tax, instead of £140+£340 for FL, but I don't know what are the rules in Netherlands. If you have a choice without sacrificing much to go with FL, then it benefits from LSS+ system (radar cruise, pre-crash safety, steering assist etc.) which was not fitted to pre-FL F-sport (you had to get it as an option on Premier only).

Compared to BMW 330e... it is quite different car and either has their own benefits. For me the looks matters so RC was obvious choice and I wanted coupe (still can't understand why BMW can't make 430e ?!), so that was what guided my decision. But 330e is plug-in hybrid, meaning you can and you need to charge it at home. If you can - then you get first ~25km for free just driving on electricity, if that is all the commute you do in the day, you may never need to add fuel, or add very little. However, when that range runs out BMW just becomes "normal" 2L Turbo Petrol and if you not charge it at home, then it will always be that. And BMW is actually fast car - 6.1s to 100km/h.

Lexus RC on other hand is hybrid, you can't charge it and it always uses petrol, but after first 25km it would probably have better fuel economy, especially in start/stop traffic. One particular thing which disappointed me the most was performance, I just don't like how the power is delivered and car in my opinion is unacceptably slow (8.2s to 100km/h), not relevant in UK, but may be relevant to you if you ever on Autobahn is top speed - RC only does 112MPH (180kmh), whereas BMW is standard 155MPH electronically limited (250kmh). You will see many members disagree with me here as they think it is "fast enough"... So what I would say - if you after sports car and 0-100 times matters to you, then 300h is maybe one to avoid, however if you after comfortable commuter car which "looks fast", then it is great car.

One final point - avoid standard audio as a plague (horrible 6 speakers system), perhaps ok if you just listen to the radio, but not suitable for any sorts of music. The premium and ML systems are both equally good.

Thanks for taking time and making detailed comment helps a lot, then maybe il wait and get 300h, and keep my eye out on ML sound system.

As for taxes I think it cost ~1100 euros per year for RC and ~500 for 330e same goes for insurance, but if car brakes down often taxes and insurance difference fall into water so to speak.

Also what if I plan to take 1600 km long trips 2-3 times per year what would be your opinion? 

[dutchie01]

Jensen i drove an IS300H ( same engine as RC) for over 150k km and not even a lightbulb went wrong. These cars are rock solid so dont worry. Like Linas said have it serviced by a dealer and enter the 10yr scheme and before any buy do a Battery check at a dealer.

I also drove a 320i touring for 2 yrs had four (4)! recalls in that time and also needed a new Battery. Buildquality of that car was below the Lexus by miles. Different plastics in the cabin made a wonderful cracking/creaking sound in winter when the cabin heated up. Roadholding was better as was steering feel.

Choices choices..

[Linas.P]

Yeah... huge difference in road tax and insurance. I think here you will have to decide for yourself whenever it is worth it. Lexus is definitely more reliable and with "relax" I doubt you would need to speed anything from your pocket for repairs over say 5 years period, however I can't think BMW would cost 5000 Euro more to maintain.

As for long trips... it depends again. If you going alone or with our other half, then RC is great grand tourer, comfortable seats, even good to drive on twisty country lanes, but you won't be going very fast and fuel consumption past ~110km/h isn't that great (somewhat comparable to 2.5L petrol).

If you have kids etc. then BMW is definitely more spacious for both passengers and luggage, I tend to believe fuel consumption on motorway is better as well especially between 110-160km/h. But if you doing it only 3 times a year, then I don't think fuel consumption is going to make major difference.

I would probably take BMW if only long trips are concerned, it is faster, more fuel efficient at higher speeds, probably even handless better. However, whenever 3 weeks a year are worth it over remaining 49, that is the decision you will have to make. All things considered I would probably want BMW 640d on long trip, but we can't choose to have everything!

[royoftherovers]

13 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Lexus has what is called "Relax", meaning you get 10 years of free warranty (up to a 100k miles, not sure if it translates to 160k km in Europe) as long as you service it at Lexus dealership. On top of that Lexus cars are reliable anyway (kind of rendering that warranty pointless to be honest, especially for first 10 years). 

I would not say Lexus RC would be more comfortable than BMW 330e, RC is rather low and hard "sports car". It is still comfortable, but it isn't limousine - F-Sport will have adaptable suspension, which is great but not the softest thing in the world. FL gets benefit of being able to set suspension modes independently i.e. you can have engine on sport and suspension on comfort (you can't do this on pre-FL). The difference is minor, because it is still low car with 19" wheels and low profile tyres.

I think it would be important to mention here, but on BMW you must immanently replace the tyres - all BMW 3-series coms standard with rock hard and unbelievably terrible Run-Flat tyres... so in that aspect Lexus is definitely more comfortable than BMW. But if you fit normal tyres on BMW, then I think it will be ever so slightly softer as far as suspension is concerned. 

It is good to read your Posts again Linas. I detect a  maturity borne out of experience.

Have a good year old pal.👍👍👍

[Jensen_309]

Well my first car in mind was is300h, but truth to be told I don't have wife nor kids(so luggage is not problem nor smaller trunk), then I started considering coupé than I stumbled upon RC and well let's just say I gave me happy feeling in my pants and since il be 30 in few months my next car will hopefully serve me for a very long time (what is not the case with BMW as far as I could read/watch) and question about long trips is just waiting my parents back in Croatia so fuel consumption is kinda not my concern for those trips more or less fear of being stranded by the side of the road (witch is what I see BMW likes to do) 

Also I would like to thank you all for your time and very well written advices, and il now remove BMW from check list and just wait till the end of the year and hope that prices go down just a tad bit 😅.

 

Once again thank you all 

[Linas.P]

No problem,

Good luck with purchase and post obligatory pictures when you do it. Car prices are a little bit mental right now. I bought RC200t for less in 2019, than I have sold it for this year (literally never happens to used and nearly new cars). Funny enough I was 29 as well when I bought mine, so it was partially as a gift to myself for 30th B-day. Certainly fitting car for age - not to young and foolish enough to need riced-up Civic, yet not old enough to drive A6 Estate! RC is very mature yet, very refreshing car. And my thinking at the time was - even if I get kids in near future, they will be ok in the back until like 10 years old, before the back seats becomes an issue. 

[serbarry]

35 minutes ago, Jensen_309 said:

and il now remove BMW from check list and just wait till the end of the year and hope that prices go down just a tad bit

Wise decision. I have waited nearly one year to find the GS450H that I wanted and in the top spec, so if you keep looking consistently your patience will be rewarded. Good luck. 

[dutchie01]

any car that gives you a happy feeling in your pants is a good car !

[dutchie01]

Nice one at Louwman Groningen. 85k km and 34k euro stunning.

[Jensen_309]

1 hour ago, dutchie01 said:

Nice one at Louwman Groningen. 85k km and 34k euro stunning.

May i interest you in 2019 ? Find picture of one with sunroof open all the way and prepare to get you underwear wet also it doesn't have that thing in rear bumper called vent I mean it has one but smaller by allot, price in the other hand is 46k ☹️

[Las Palmas]

4 hours ago, Jensen_309 said:

 keep my eye out on ML sound system.

Also what if I plan to take 1600 km long trips 2-3 times per year what would be your opinion? 

ML is absolutely worth waiting for. It is great.

We used to go from Cadiz to Denmark to visit family before Corona. Still waiting for it to calm down. If you do not need to go fast, hybrid is not a bad thing. Lexus/Toyota are probably more experienced than BMW when it comes to hybrid.

[serbarry]

And certainly more reliable. 

[Jensen_309]

6 hours ago, serbarry said:

Wise decision. I have waited nearly one year to find the GS450H that I wanted and in the top spec, so if you keep looking consistently your patience will be rewarded. Good luck. 

too bad they didint fit 3.5 v6 and electric motors like gs 450h into rc

[Linas.P]

6 minutes ago, Jensen_309 said:

too bad they didint fit 3.5 v6 and electric motors like gs 450h into rc

Ohhh... don't even start with that! You will find me winging about this thousand time on this forum. For me in UK RC350 would have been fine, but Lexus didn't bother to bring it over here. As for not fitting 450h this as another blunder, because RC specifically received GS subframe in the front and the only explanation of this decision is to be able to fit GS engines... as such not fitting making RC450h was bizarre.

Even bigger issue with model development was that RC received IC250C centre section, which overall made car at least 200kg heaver than it really needs to be, for rigidity that coupe doesn't need. This is because Lexus clearly panned to make convertible (there is even fully functional prototype)... but never made one. So not only we don't have convertible, but as well every coupe RC carries strengthening only required for cars without roof. I mean sure it doesn't hurt anything in particular and car is overengineered overall, but RC development could be called "troubled" with loads of ideas which failed to materialise or were abandoned mid way. 

[serbarry]

50 minutes ago, Jensen_309 said:

too bad they didint fit 3.5 v6 and electric motors like gs 450h into rc

You could still look for a GS450H, save some money and have a fabulous saloon. 

[Linas.P]

It is funny that GS450h are not much cheaper than RC, at least in UK. And strangely, sometimes less is worth more! 

[serbarry]

51 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

It is funny that GS450h are not much cheaper than RC, at least in UK. And strangely, sometimes less is worth more! 

I suppose that you refer to MK4 because MK3 like mine are much cheaper but I understand that Jensen is probably looking for something newer.  

[Linas.P]

25 minutes ago, serbarry said:

I suppose that you refer to MK4 because MK3 like mine are much cheaper but I understand that Jensen is probably looking for something newer.  

Yes, sorry I thought you meant mk4. They are slightly cheaper obviously, but those are with million miles and 2012 cars, so all things considered and comparing like for like ~2016 GS is even more expensive than same year RC. That probably isn't wrong, because 450h in particular were quite high-end at the time.

[Jensen_309]

But isn't the GS "cumbersome" but even if I got gs backseat would be unused and sedan is well not my cup of tea, and I think when time comes money is on one pile, prices fall(maybe but Lexus said fk you Europe you only get SUV) then il see it there is a better deal for now ili keep my eye out for RC 

 

I mean look at this, just look at it 

[Linas.P]

I know that feeling - when I wanted coupe... I wanted coupe! And not the one with 4 doors. 

For my personal taste the pre-FL model looks better, especially front of the car. So the best year in my opinion is late 2017 when RC received LSS+, but before new headlamps design.

As for GS being "cumbersome", not really true - handling on RC will be very similar to mk4 GS, especially considering aforementioned front subframe (it is actually more than that, almost entire front suspension). Compared to mk3... yeah maybe. mk3 was more of a comfy luxury barge, but so was all the other cars. It is just the case that over time most cars became stiffer, sportier and less comfortable... Although can't say that about GS mk4... it still very comfortable due to loads and loads of sound deadening - one of the greatest Lexus cars in recent years.

The other thing to note - apparently selling coupes privately is major headache, even bigger headache than selling saloons. So owners of coupes essentially only have an option to trade them in or sell at massive discount. Besides - who have 40k Euro cash?! Rarely anyone... so this drives prices of coupes fast. GS on other hand doesn't seems to be affected as much, so RC suddenly becomes very attractive.

I mean there is still an option of LC500h 😄 I can imagine it is not cheap in Continental Europe, but here in UK prices are fast approaching £40k. That is amazing car, although I would go for v8, regardless of that interior built quality is in universe of it's own and nothing comes close to it.