New LS400 purchased - let the fettling begin!

[Razor61]

47 minutes ago, Malc said:

I'll give you heads up when to put the coffee on

👍

[Razor61]

12 hours ago, Razor61 said:

I live about 15 miles from Kirkham

I got that totally wrong…….make that 27 miles from Kirkham.

[Razor61]

Front suspension rebuild complete and rear engine/transmission mount replaced, details posted in the 'Brakes and Suspension' sub forum.
Rear suspension rebuild still to be done after painting all the bits ready to fit. I should be able to that in a weekend I think/hope - maybe the next Bank Holiday weekend. Hopefully the camber bolts aren't seized, if they are seized it will be out with the big grinder..........
Latest small issue is the LCD outside temp gauge is ready very high, I think it started on a very warm day and didn't go back. Yesterday it read 35 degrees and today it's 37 degrees...........definitely not correct😂 I checked the ambient temp sensor and it wasn't open circuit, I think the manual has the resistance readings to check accuracy but I've ordered a new sensor. Hopefully that will cure it.
Aircon repair hasn't been done yet as I'm replacing the accumulator drier. OEM drier approx £60 with August delivery so it will be an NRF part which I've ordered for £15.
New engine mounts to fit at some point if needed - steering rack bushes look a pain to fit so will leave that for a while - new thermostat and gasket to fit
 
 

[Supafly]

Well done on keeping the momentum up on the jobs 

Has the transmission mount smoothed things out for you as per all of the threads around the world that point to this being a quick win?

Funnily enough, my temp has been reading really high too.  From what I've read the sensor failure mode is to read too low.  I planned to check resistance on the wires and then the sensor to see if it was a bad connection but haven't got round to doing so yet.

When you get around to doing the engine mounts you will need to unmount the steering rack to allow for the subframe to come down for clearance.  It should make it very easy to change the rack mounts at that point.  Fortunately mine were in excellent condition so it all went back together as is.

[Razor61]

Cheers, the trans mount cured a slight wobble I felt through the drivers seat when sat at the lights in neutral. It wasn’t bad just annoying. Is it smoother overall………difficult to decide because I replaced so much at once. But it is smoother I think and no noises that shouldn’t be there from the front end anymore

I had a slight shake on the steering wheel around 65/70mph, thought it was wheel/s out of balance but that seems to have gone now. Read somewhere that the front UCA’s can cause this.
The steering rack bushes look perfectly ok on mine as well, I was just going to change them cos I have them. If I have to unmount the steering rack and drop the subframe to fit the engine mounts then I’m not in a hurry to do them. I hadn’t looked at it but I thought the engine mounts can be removed by unbolting the top brackets from the engine while taking the weight of the engine underneath, looks like that’s not the case. I got the engine mounts because of the slight wobble through the drivers seat mentioned above but the trans mount cured it so no panic to do them.

New track rod ends being fitted tomorrow then wheel alignment so will drive better, it’s a bit jiggly at the moment.
New thermostat will be fitted tomorrow - next week or so the aircon leak on the sight glass will be fixed, new drier fitted and the re gassed - rear suspension rebuild will be done soon, all the new arms etc have have 2 coats of Por-15 ( they look beautiful and shiny in gloss black, be a shame to fit them to the car and get dirty)
There are a few other bits and pieces to be done and new parts to be fitted, I can’t remember what they are at the moment😀

[Razor61]

Alignment didn’t happen this morning, rear suspension needs to be rebuilt first due to issues with the rear camber bolts. One isn’t moving the arm so I think the bolt is seized and probably the bush is knackered as well.
I had a good look at it all earlier and was going to start it but decided against it.
So on Friday after I finish work I’ll get cracking  on it and hopefully get it done over the weekend. If it goes into the next week it won’t be an issue and I’ll carry on after work that week. I plan to only do the lower suspension arms but I’ll see how it goes and maybe do the shocks and UCA’s.

[Supafly]

On 6/11/2022 at 12:57 PM, Razor61 said:

Alignment didn’t happen this morning, rear suspension needs to be rebuilt first due to issues with the rear camber bolts. One isn’t moving the arm so I think the bolt is seized and probably the bush is knackered as well.
I had a good look at it all earlier and was going to start it but decided against it.
So on Friday after I finish work I’ll get cracking  on it and hopefully get it done over the weekend. If it goes into the next week it won’t be an issue and I’ll carry on after work that week. I plan to only do the lower suspension arms but I’ll see how it goes and maybe do the shocks and UCA’s.

I admire your perseverance.  Recently, I'll do some work on the car and then feel the aches for days and that is enough for me to defer any other non urgent work until it's a distant memory 🙂

 

Really enjoying reading about how you're progressing and the results of your efforts.

[Razor61]

1 hour ago, Supafly said:

I admire your perseverance. 

Thanks, it's also a 'I won't be beaten and will get it done' attitude😂 no matter what!

[Razor61]

Just had the car on the ramps at the rear to have a good look at the arms and what needs to done and figure out how to do it. I planned to put the car on the ramps and jack up one side so the wheel is free which will give me plenty of room underneath,  work on that side and repeat on the other side. After getting the trolley jack under, it isn’t really possible to do that and be sure it’s safe. Ideally I would like to jack the whole rear end up and work on both sides but due to the way my drive is I wouldn’t feel safe doing it. I’ll need to do it the normal way and jack up one side at once, much safer for me.
I am going to do all the suspension arms and then planned to maybe do the shocks and UCA’s but after looking where the ball joint is fixed on the UCA’s I’m definitely not doing the UCA’s at the moment. From what I can see the drive shaft needs to be removed or the whole rear hub assembly removed which means disconnecting the drive shaft anyway to get to the ball joint nut. Maybe someone can tell me different though.
If I am right, when I decide to do the shocks and UCA’s, I may as well fit the new hub assemblies and bearings as well. That will mean removing the ABS sensors, although they are plastic they can be a pain to remove and the bottom part of the plastic sleeve which goes into the hub can break in. New ABS sensors are not cheap at all…….

[Razor61]

Started the job after work today, jacked up the passenger side rear, tried to remove the rear strut bar- body side bolt…….no chance and the bolt needs cutting through with a grinder. The bush is knackered so that will be done another time, maybe over the weekend.
On to the lower suspension arms after making ‘match marks’ on the camber adjustment washers with a permanent white paint pen so I could put them back as they were. Won't be spot on at all but will be good enough until aligned correctly.
Starting with the ‘Problem’ arm, number 1 on the parts diagram, I had to cut through the camber bolt with the grinder on one side then I could knock out the bolt and remove the arm. The mounting bracket for this on the rear subframe needed some work, the metal profile, which the camber adjustment relies on for adjustment, was a bit bent out of shape. Bit of work with a big adjustable spanner put it right. I knew this needed to be done after looking underneath when Lexus Bolton tried to do the alignment. They couldn’t do it because turning the camber bolt didn’t move the suspension arm, issue was 3 fold…….1 the camber bolt was seized, 2 the bush was knackered and 3 the mounting bracket profile was out of wack a bit. Main issues were the seized camber bolt and knackered bush.
New Number 1 suspension arm fitted along with new camber bolt, nut and a helping of copper grease. Torqued up the ball joint at the hub end, new nylock nut fitted of course.
On to suspension arm number 2, this has the drop link attached so I disconnected the drop link from the anti roll bar first. Not much of an issue with an allen key and a spanner, took a while though.
Removed arm #2 no problem, fitted new arm, fitted new drop link with new nuts.
Torqued up the drop link nuts, nipped up both camber bolts for arms 1 and 2 and hub end bolt for arm 2.
Tidy up all tools, put wheel back on, torque up wheel nuts and lower the car onto the ground.
Reversed onto ramps, adjusted camber bolts on arms 1 and 2 to align with the ‘match marks’ and torqued up, torqued arm 2 bolt at hub end. Checked all nuts and bolts again to make sure and drove forward off the ramps.
Passenger side done now, apart from strut bar, so after work tomorrow I’ll do the drivers side and attempt the strut bar. Should be straightforward for arms 1 and 2.
Not doing the UCA’s but I may tackle the shocks and mounts over the weekend then get the alignment done early next week.

 

[Supafly]

Good luck with the remainder 🙂

[Razor61]

On it again today, finished work early and started on the drivers side.
Drop link needed the grinder treatment to remove, tried once with spanner and Allen key but no chance of removing.
Both camber bolts seized and also needed the grinder, there was no chance of adjusting the arms for the alignment. Unless they were spot on to start with but I very much doubt it.
One of the camber bolts I cut through one side and the bolt was hammered out ok.
The other needs to be cut through both sides, done one side but getting at the other side is an issue cos the arm is in the way. I have new suspension arms so I cut through the arm as close as possible to the bush which just left the bush end. The arm is hollow for weight saving I presume, didn’t know this. Plenty of room now to get the 9inch grinder in and cut through. Job for tomorrow first thing though and when that’s done it’s time for fitting the new arms and drop link. Should be done by lunch weather permitting.
If all goes to plan I’ll have a look at doing the shocks as well.

[Razor61]

9 minutes ago, Supafly said:

Good luck with the remainder 🙂

Cheers, the drivers side was more difficult but with the right tools, a grinder and thinking about how to tackle the job it’s a breeze🤣

[Razor61]

Started very early assembling as much as I can before using the grinder, couldn’t use it at 6am.
8 o’clock ground through the last camber bolt, fitted new arm, drop link and camber bolts etc, jacked up the hub and tightened camber bolts. Later on I’ll get it on the ramps, recheck camber bolts and torque them up.
All ready for alignment next week.

[Malc]

10 minutes ago, Razor61 said:

All ready for alignment next week

be interested to read how this all works out ok

and which system you're going to have used on your beloved to check what's showing Green and the Red to see what's really needing some fine tuning adjustment 

....... hunt the Hunter System is it ??

Malc

[Razor61]

I believe it is a hunter system, Lexus Bolton will be doing it and I’m pretty sure I saw Hunter on the wheel sensor things and on the display.
All the bushes were knackered on the suspension arms, 3 camber bolts seized. On at lease one of the arms the rubber bush was detached from the arm so it just turned inside the arm, probably caused by trying to adjust the camber and the rubber sheared.
I can see straight away that the rear wheels are better, the camber was out before (looked like a Triumph Herald😀 but not as bad) and now the wheels are near upright. Just a bit of camber but way way better than before.
Turned out a bigger job than expected, seized camber bolts were the problem. Everything else was no problem really.
Next is the rear strut rods, I would have done them at the same time but I need to cut through at least one bolt and I don’t have new bolts so will need to order some. I didn’t expect the bolts to be seized, camber bolts yes but not these.

[royoftherovers]

31 minutes ago, Razor61 said:

I believe it is a hunter system, Lexus Bolton will be doing it and I’m pretty sure I saw Hunter on the wheel sensor things and on the display.
All the bushes were knackered on the suspension arms, 3 camber bolts seized. On at lease one of the arms the rubber bush was detached from the arm so it just turned inside the arm, probably caused by trying to adjust the camber and the rubber sheared.
I can see straight away that the rear wheels are better, the camber was out before (looked like a Triumph Herald😀 but not as bad) and now the wheels are near upright. Just a bit of camber but way way better than before.
Turned out a bigger job than expected, seized camber bolts were the problem. Everything else was no problem really.
Next is the rear strut rods, I would have done them at the same time but I need to cut through at least one bolt and I don’t have new bolts so will need to order some. I didn’t expect the bolts to be seized, camber bolts yes but not these.

Be most careful Paul.....I once saw HUNTER on the side of a jet plane ! 🤣👍

[Razor61]

Rear strut bars/rods done as well now………………..on Thursday I tried the passenger side strut bar/rod but couldn’t get the body side bolt out and was seized so plan was to grind through the bolt but I didn’t have new bolts so left it. After I’d finished the other stuff this morning I tried the strut bar in the drivers side, came off no problem. Took the body side bolt to a local iron mongers and bought 2 new bolts, washers and nylock nuts to do the job. Back home and fitted the strut bar on the drivers side with a new bolt etc, all good. I now have a new bolt for the passenger side.
Jacked up the passenger side all prepared to grind through the problem bolt and fit a new bolt. To my great surprise the problem bolt now turns in the bush and wasn’t seized so removed the nut which took a lot of effort, rusted and cross threaded and I had to use a long breaker bar and a couple of spanner’s for greater leverage. Got the nut off but man it was painful………not had to do that in a long time. The bolt took a bit of persuasion to get out with WD40, a pry bar and working it out.
Why the bolt was free who knows, I don’t care why.
Both strut rods done as well now and I am absolutely over the moon😀
So now all rear suspension arms, strut rods, drop links and anti roll bar bushes have been replaced.
I wasn’t happy about getting the alignment done without new strut bars fitted but I would have had to get it done after replacing just the suspension arms.
I managed to snap one of the bolts for the arb bush brackets so had to drill it out and tap it. Took half an hour or so but good as new now. There are a couple of snapped bolts that hold the undertray on, I didn’t snap them, so will do the same with those tomorrow afternoon. If anyone needs to do the same and doesn’t know how to do it, drop me a pm and I’ll explain. Good mains drill, cobalt drill bit set in 0.5 increments, a tap and die set, a helping of patience and the knowledge of how to do it is needed. And a new bolts of course.
Overall I’m well pleased, next weekend………………new shocks and top mounts is the plan.

[Supafly]

Huge thumbs up on your progress!  Such a great sense of satisfaction when obstacles like these are overcome 🙂

[Razor61]

Yes, very satisfying in the end.
I did all the suspension because I had most of the new suspension bits already. Spent a few hundred quid on the bits I didn’t have and splashed out on new shocks.
If I didn’t have most of the bits already then I wouldn’t have done it all, the car drove well anyway despite worn bushes. Suspension noises were present but only really apparent over speed bumps and potholes.
The cost of the stuff at UK prices would make it uneconomical to do, I wouldn’t have done it all at UK prices. Amayama is available for OEM bits at reasonable cost and I also had most of the suspension stuff already, otherwise I wouldn’t have bought another LS400, that’s for sure.

[Razor61]

Alignment done today at Lexus Bolton, all done no problem now. Car drove a lot better with all the work done even before the alignment. Smoother over surfaces that are not really smooth, which is most of the UK roads at the moment, quieter because of it, feels ‘tight’ as it should.
200 mile trip over tomorrow and Friday mostly motorway so should notice the difference.
Was it worth all the effort? Yes it was but not worth spending £4k plus on parts alone at UK prices to do everything.
Most important bits to replace in my opinion are front and rear strut bars and shocks all round.
Next bits would be the rear suspension arms due to the camber bolts probably being seized, if they are then if someone tries to adjust using a lot of pressure, the risk is that the bush gets knackered.
After that drop links and arb bushes, front ball joints and track rod ends.
Front and rear UCA’s next if they fail and are picked up on the MOT or something or you know they are knackered.
All that is going off the condition of the suspension stuff I removed and what I found while doing it all on my car with 90k miles.

[Malc]

13 minutes ago, Razor61 said:

Was it worth all the effort? Yes it was but not worth spending £4k plus on parts alone at UK prices to do everything.

I'm thinking, from your personal experience now with your own car and endeavours, that even at a relatively low mileage of 90k miles, owners of our beloved Ls400s will be just " letting them go " rather than undertaking these stupendous efforts and costs  ... there's no point trying to think there's any value in an aged, even not very much used car when faced with those stupendous costs PLUS labour charges 

My actions with mine over these last 11 years and 116k miles of ownership have seen me paying out for all 4  UCAs and other suspension stuff from time to time ....  mostly bought at a good price from Amayama and fitted by my indy at sensible cost too .....  I think for parts over these recent years I've probably spent about £2k  ...  but she has done 239k miles now and drives a dream .  especially now I've spent out £300+vat for the front exhaust box to be re-fabricated , fitted etc ........  she sure does sound sweeter than ever thankfully 

My next service and MOT is end of the year ........  so another 6 months to go at least

 

PAUL ....  you have done sterling work and budgetting with your car, very well done ....  just don't prang the old lady eh !

Malc

[Razor61]

1 minute ago, Malc said:

PAUL ....  you have done sterling work and budgetting with your car, very well done ....  just don't prang the old lady eh !

Thank you and I’ll try not to smash this one, if anything does happen with it I will be buying it back and remove all the expensive parts I’ve fitted, ready to fit on the next one😉

Just fitted the new ambient temp sensor and the outside temp on the centre console lcd is now correct. It’s reading 26 which is correct cos  it’s pretty warm but not 39 degrees which it was displaying before.
 

You are right that owners will let them go, the costs of making the suspension ‘as new’ isn’t viable or sensible if you think about it. It was viable for me for the reasons I’ve said previously, if mine was a weekend car or just used now and again then I wouldn’t have done it. I use mine every day to work and back and choose to use the LS400 rather than the IS250 in most cases outside of going to work. Because I use the car every day and I notice everything that is wrong or needs doing, it bugs the hell out of me and I need to sort it out. Plus it’s a hobby and I like doing it, sometimes I wish I hadn’t bothered in the middle of something but the end result is worth it.

[Tinonline]

44 minutes ago, Razor61 said:

Thank you and I’ll try not to smash this one, if anything does happen with it I will be buying it back and remove all the expensive parts I’ve fitted, ready to fit on the next one😉

Just fitted the new ambient temp sensor and the outside temp on the centre console lcd is now correct. It’s reading 26 which is correct cos  it’s pretty warm but not 39 degrees which it was displaying before.
 

You are right that owners will let them go, the costs of making the suspension ‘as new’ isn’t viable or sensible if you think about it. It was viable for me for the reasons I’ve said previously, if mine was a weekend car or just used now and again then I wouldn’t have done it. I use mine every day to work and back and choose to use the LS400 rather than the IS250 in most cases outside of going to work. Because I use the car every day and I notice everything that is wrong or needs doing, it bugs the hell out of me and I need to sort it out. Plus it’s a hobby and I like doing it, sometimes I wish I hadn’t bothered in the middle of something but the end result is worth it.

A fair point raised. Running any car is expensive…is it worth running a 400 using a garage? At 90k miles a lot of makes are probably not in as good a place as a Lexus.

I’m glad I’m a home mechanic…sometimes.

I reckon I pay from £100 to £400 per annum. I’m at 98k. Low use.

I am proactive as much as possible. Prices to date are reasonable for the majority of OE parts but it does require shopping around and sometimes importing.

Quality OE suspension parts are a challenge.

I’m in the club that would like licensed parts suppliers manufacturing to OEM standard. Yes we will pay more. There’s a lot of rubbish and counterfeit.

Big name suppliers are also guilty of divesting their top brands to cheap manufacturers or selling out. We find out eventually but not before paying for it.

We are entering the phase of classic car ownership. Yes, even the Lexus requires a rebuild of some scale.

 

[Malc]

13 hours ago, Tinonline said:

Quality OE suspension parts are a challenge.

13 hours ago, Tinonline said:

There’s a lot of rubbish

I would mention again  ( first time way back ) that my very first UCA to go pop, up the Dolomites, was N/S/F at about 140k miles ( I think ) and that was replaced with a BluePrint one which only lasted a pathetic 40k miles or so ...  later discovered Amayama and all now replaced with them .  the BluePrint one then cost the same as the Amayama now

Malc