A call to ban ethanol from all uk fuel

[LittleCasper]

I probably won't be the first or last to ask this, but would people be interested in signing a petition to ban ethanol in all UK petroleum fuel products?

We're told that introducing E10/E5 ethanol into our fuel is better for the environment, but once you actually look into the production and simple logistics the entire argument gets blown out the water; not only is it less efficient meaning I'm actually getting worse economy so I'm literally burning more fuel but people like myself are forced to pay a premium for E5 fuels as they have no other option.

I think this sort of thing needs nipping in the bud before the nanny state and their friends turn up bioethanol production to 11, so they can create propaganda telling us the industry is on its back legs and can then subsequently force us into an E10/15/20... nation. All things in life should be about choice, so I'm just wondering is this something we can actually get moving or will it be a bust that will sit at 10 supporters?

I fear that one day we will be forced in to this without any say, which we already have done with E10. If we don' do something now we won't be able to make any changes in the future. As an owner of a classic motorcycle it scares me that there may come a day when I can't even get fuel for my motor, because some back bencher is making us all switch to a useless fuel standard to make a quick buck.

I've created the petiton below if anyone is interested. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/604051/sponsors/new?token=mopvmjCmKfCd0JhiNGp6

[LittleCasper]

2 minutes ago, LittleCasper said:

I probably won't be the first or last to ask this, but would people be interested in signing a petition to ban ethanol in all UK petroleum fuel products?

We're told that introducing E10/E5 ethanol into our fuel is better for the environment, but once you actually look into the production and simple logistics the entire argument gets blown out the water; not only is it less efficient meaning I'm actually getting worse economy so I'm literally burning more fuel but people like myself are forced to pay a premium for E5 fuels as they have no other option.

I think this sort of thing needs nipping in the bud before the nanny state and their friends turn up bioethanol production to 11, so they can create propaganda telling us the industry is on its back legs and can then subsequently force us into an E10/15/20... nation. All things in life should be about choice, so I'm just wondering is this something we can actually get moving or will it be a bust that will sit at 10 supporters?

I fear that one day we will be forced in to this without any say, which we already have done with E10. If we don' do something now we won't be able to make any changes in the future. As an owner of a classic motorcycle it scares me that there may come a day when I can't even get fuel for my motor, because some back bencher is making us all switch to a useless fuel standard to make a quick buck.

I've created the petiton below if anyone is interested. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/604051/sponsors/new?token=mopvmjCmKfCd0JhiNGp6

To quote myself I forgot to add the text in relation to my petiton as seen below.

Mandate standard fuel be ethanol-free & allow lower VAT for fuel with ethanol

The goal of this petition is to mandate that all regular petrol in the UK be ethanol-free and for any alternative fuels with an ethanol content its VAT should be lowered by a percentage up to 20% in accordance with its ethanol content (I.e. E5 = 5% off VAT & E10 = 10% off VAT)

New research suggests that Bioethanol is up to 2X worse for the environment in terms of CO2 production than regular petrol, due to the logistics of shipping the product in oil guzzling tankers, farming land, physical engine component damage and the efficiency lost when the fuel is burnt. Ignoring this ethanol issue means we're actually doing more damage to the environment, The consumer hasn't seen a price reduction despite petrol being diluted and the ethanol means less MPG is achieved.

[NemesisUK]

So you are actually proposing a tax incentive to use the bioethanol fuel?

[LittleCasper]

1 hour ago, NemesisUK said:

So you are actually proposing a tax incentive to use the bioethanol fuel?

Basically yes, we're paying fuel duty on petroleum products so when they water it down we should get a discount; the basic fuel should have no ethanol in it though. 

[NemesisUK]

My point was you are incentivising people to purchase (because of the lower tax/cost per litre) the very thing you are saying is bad for the planet?

[LittleCasper]

31 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

My point was you are incentivising people to purchase (because of the lower tax/cost per litre) the very thing you are saying is bad for the planet?

You know now that you say that, it sort of is but then at the same time it isn't because you're literally getting less petrol when buying E10 for the same price. There is absolutely no positive gain for the consumer.

The fact is we're paying so much in fuel duty + VAT on the proviso that it's based on our fuel being a petroleum product, but when your fuel is made up of 10% ethanol it's literally less petrol for the money.

The consumer is essentially getting less value for their money because of this scam, if I'm putting E10 in my car I'm getting worse fuel economy, possibly causing dammage and I'm not receiving any sort of parity interms of cost; I can't see any benefit and should have a choice in the matter without being penalised with having to buy "premium" fuels.

I think all things in life should be about choice, if you want to opt in or out of ethanol fuel it should be a the consumer who should make that call and it certainly shouldn't be mandated. I still think it's unfair thet were paying the same price for E10 as we did for standard petrol, you can see how I'd expect a 10% discount in VAT to match this.

I suspect someone in government knows someone else who's making a lot of money from all of this BS, but it's the tax payer who's missing out as usual. The BBC goes so far to release propaganda saying we need E10 otherwise out bio-ethanol industry will collapse. Why is it my problem, don't we have this thing called a free market?

[Malc]

34 minutes ago, LittleCasper said:

The fact is we're paying so much in fuel duty + VAT

and I will continue to contend that the Govt take on the fuel we put into our cars is actually a 400% premium tax .....  being 80% of the pump price or as near as dammit

being the base cost of the product   PLUS 4 X   in taxation of that base pump retail cost ...... 

Malc

cf: fridges, freezers, toys etc say are at 20% vat on the resulting shop cost price ..  a true 25% of the shop stock price at the till

[Quantus]

I think it's fine to have the option but I'm not a fan of it and do have some concerns that it will be forced in over time. Less mileage and it's not an efficient process to begin with. 

[Linas.P]

I am not sure petition going to solve it, but you have a point - why should we paying same for less product? 

If it is indeed "more environmentally friendly" then it should cost slightly less to incentivise using inferior product over more pollution one. 

On 12/20/2021 at 8:49 AM, NemesisUK said:

My point was you are incentivising people to purchase (because of the lower tax/cost per litre) the very thing you are saying is bad for the planet?

That isn't actually correct, people just going to use fuel anyway, regardless of how it is taxed. However, assuming that E10 is more environmentally friendly it should have lower penalty for using it, thus incentivising people to use "greener" fuel, not more of it.