Brake pipes corroded mot failure

steve2006 · December 13, 2021

18 minutes ago, Johnlex said:

Can’t find anyone else and frightened to take somewhere else for mot just in case ?

Just take it to another independent MOT station and ask them to take a look and give an opinion on the pipes and whether they would, in their opinion, during a test fail the car for it.

Johnlex · December 13, 2021

20 minutes ago, steve2006 said:

Just take it to another independent MOT station and ask them to take a look and give an opinion on the pipes and whether they would, in their opinion, during a test fail the car for it.

Do you think they are having me on ????

have you seen the video

this is a screen shot of the so called corrosion

Malc · December 14, 2021

6 hours ago, Johnlex said:

Do you think they are having me on ????

probably an emphatic YES

just take it to someone else as we and I have specifically said prior

Malc

steve2006 · December 14, 2021

Difficult from a picture but looks “borderline” The tester’s manual states that if the tester is not sure how far the corrosion has penetrated the benefit of doubt should be biased towards a pass.

The other issue I would imagine is that Lexus would be fitting OEM pre formed sections of brake pipe whereas the local garage would be rolling out the copper pipe, cutting back to a good section then jointing with the approved joint type.

Not sure about the IS250 but my front to rear pipes are not only plastic coated but are contained within plastic ducting so unlikely to suffer from corrosion or impact damage. The ends as in your case are the only exposed areas and I had both mine replaced from £60.00 locally.

is200 Newbie · December 14, 2021

Agree with Steve, Lexus will not repair any sections found to be bad, they will replace any area in need of repair with a complete OEM section (then test your calipers and state they are under performing and need replacing at Lexus prices 😉)

jumbojake · December 16, 2021

agree, local garage, this is a standard job.. would be surprised if this was more then £200, as it's pretty straightforward.

They would either replace a small section with couplers, or the whole length if needed... and it will be the bare copper pipe rather than the coated OEM stuff... but to be honest on an older car, the copper stuff is perfect.. .it should outlive the car.

bernieeccles · December 16, 2021

5 hours ago, jumbojake said:

agree, local garage, this is a standard job.. would be surprised if this was more then £200, as it's pretty straightforward.

They would either replace a small section with couplers, or the whole length if needed... and it will be the bare copper pipe rather than the coated OEM stuff... but to be honest on an older car, the copper stuff is perfect.. .it should outlive the car.

Kunifer is better, copper/nickel.

https://www.copper.org/applications/automotive/brake-tube/brake.html

BC99 · December 17, 2021

I'd avoid preformed sections if available from Lexus, whilst will probably last the remaining lifetime of the car will still corrode and probably not cheaper than replacing with ones made up from copper (or Kunifer as bernieeccles mentions) which will almost definitely last longer.

Replacing could be a big effort though with the need to drop a few parts for access.

With Brake lines, you can't always tell until they are off the car if they are still good, but by that point you may as well replace. That being said, that video i looked at briefly,looks good to me but i'm not overly familiar as judging these things.

Johnlex · December 19, 2021

On 12/17/2021 at 9:11 PM, BC99 said:

I'd avoid preformed sections if available from Lexus, whilst will probably last the remaining lifetime of the car will still corrode and probably not cheaper than replacing with ones made up from copper (or Kunifer as bernieeccles mentions) which will almost definitely last longer.

Replacing could be a big effort though with the need to drop a few parts for access.

With Brake lines, you can't always tell until they are off the car if they are still good, but by that point you may as well replace. That being said, that video i looked at briefly,looks good to me but i'm not overly familiar as judging these things.

Lexus replaced both sides front to back £1073 and done a free aircon check and ant clean

that wa salad with £150 discount

eleveneleven · December 20, 2021

12 hours ago, Johnlex said:

Lexus replaced both sides front to back £1073 and done a free aircon check and ant clean

that wa salad with £150 discount

😯

A free aircon check?! what did they did do? switch it on and off a few times to see if it works...🤦‍♂️

Very expensive fix overall but at least it's sorted now, one less thing to worry about over Christmas.

Mine were listed as an advisory on the Last MOT "Brake pipe corroded, covered in grease or other material"

My mechanic said they're fine, the grease they're covered in is preventing the corrosion. Will probably have to be looked at, at some point but I wont be going to Lexus for that.

Johnlex · December 20, 2021

@eleveneleven Who know what they done ,

they put down 1 hour labour £140 plus vat but didn’t charge me .

yes very expensive fix.
i have a warranty and 2 free mot.
I could if taken some where else payed a extra. But would Lexus really want to do a 6 hour job dropping half the car down to change some corroded pipes if they really didn’t really need changing ???

i contact a my lock independent Toyota Lexus and they did they wouldn’t do it if it wasn’t necessary as it’s a days labour.
another mechanic said it’s very border line from picture.

so now basically got all new brakes.

2 new callipers on passenger side front and rear.
new dics front and rear

new brake pads front and rear

now new pipes.

the Lexus extended warranty covered brake callipers. So I got my money back on the warranty plus a head light last year which was £600.

bernieeccles · December 20, 2021

Well, some one has to pay for the big showroom and free coffee and biscuits, but it certainly wouldn't be me!

In my opinion, to put it kindly, you have been done. I'd bet you strong money, the rest of the brake pipes apart from that exposed section, were probably perfect.

jumbojake · December 20, 2021

To be fair, it's a few days before Christmas, and by the sound of it, he wanted piece of mind....

There is no right or wrong answer... pay your money take your choice... I'd have done it myself, others would use a local garage, others would prefer the piece of mind with Lexus doing the work... the main thing it is done, and he can relax (good news) ... now you can focus on more important things this time of year !

Johnlex · December 20, 2021

1 hour ago, jumbojake said:

To be fair, it's a few days before Christmas, and by the sound of it, he wanted piece of mind....

There is no right or wrong answer... pay your money take your choice... I'd have done it myself, others would use a local garage, others would prefer the piece of mind with Lexus doing the work... the main thing it is done, and he can relax (good news) ... now you can focus on more important things this time of year !

Yes your probably right

I have been done .

but it’s done now I’ve spent my hard earned cash and gave it to them.
really annoyed about it all.

They see me coming

is what it is

I’ve payed my money now

Malc · December 20, 2021

18 minutes ago, Johnlex said:

is what it is

yep it's done and you've been done and it's done with now

so happy christmas and tell father Xmas to bring you summat super in your stocking :wink3:

Malc

Johnlex · December 20, 2021

26 minutes ago, Malc said:

yep it's done and you've been done and it's done with now

so happy christmas and tell father Xmas to bring you summat super in your stocking

Malc

Yup that’s as maybe

but it’s my brakes so can’t take any risks if I look at the positives it’s only money

jumbojake · December 20, 2021

don't worry about it John ... it is sorted, and I don't think you have been 'done' ... you wanted piece of mind and wanted the dealer to do it... that's fair enough, it was your choice... better to have the work completed and your mind at rest.

gb1600e · January 4, 2022

Same thing happened to me on my ISF although I was told the brakes failed completely on the brake test during the MOT. (This during my free MOT as part of my Lexus service plan). I too got the £1200 bill and lexus warrenty weren't interested.

I consider the the problem is down to a design fault where the pipe rusts on the exposed few cm just off the union to the flexible hose to the caliper where it a) isn't poly covered or b) isn't behind a protective flap on the rear wing liner. It's just there exposed to rust.

Had my car not been on the ramp at lexus I would have had a perfectly good repair of just a few inches of brake pipe for a fraction of the Lexus price but given the high value of the ISF and to demonstrate a no expense spared maintenence regime I justified the big bucks to myself and went all in.

Could lexus offer a repair rather than replace. Yes I'm sure they could but that won't keep the technician busy for a day and half or pay for the tiled show room and fancy coffee will it.

Not sure it's a rip off or a premium service.

Malc · January 5, 2022

9 hours ago, gb1600e said:

Not sure it's a rip off or a premium service.

it's not a rip off, it's just what one would reasonably expect to pay at a Main Dealer .. and get coffee and bikkies seated in an armchair

Most of us with older cars use independent car mechanics and expect that same level of competency but with appropriate and sensibly priced servicing ........ maybe an hour's labour and a chunk of brake pipe ........ say £65 max

.,........ possibly a coffee and bikkies thrown in too whilst chatting and watching :wink3:

Malc

bernieeccles · January 5, 2022

"level of competency"

I would argue that competency at a Lexus dealer is not as guaranteed as some people would think.

Not long after I bought my IS250 as an approved used car from Newcastle Lexus, my wife and I took it on a road trip down to Austria and down there the car started to rumble with the classic signs of a failing front wheel bearing. Turn into a left bend, putting weight on the right wheel etc etc.

Got back to the UK and took it to Leeds Lexus and the "technician" came out for a road test and confirmed that he could hear the rumble but in his opinion it was tyre wear. On return to the premises, he said he would put it on the ramp in the workshop and have a look. Not long after, the car was proclaimed OK and indeed, the noise was due to tyre wear. Now I have been repairing vehicles for many years but thought that these guys are professionals so they must be right.

Fast forward and two new front tyres fitted and guess what, still the same rumble. Took it back and a different technician had a look and proclaimed, yes, it was a failing wheel bearing. Got it fitted under warranty and afterwards thought I should have asked for some sort of recompense for the two less than half worn tyres I had junked because an "expert" gave the wrong diagnosis.

Lesson learnt but I do understand that some people, maybe most, do not have the skills to do work on their cars themselves, but I do wince at the eye watering bills that Lexus dealers hand out for simple services and repairs and that people accept while handing their money over so easily.

Bluemarlin · January 5, 2022

I've noticed that the issue of corroded brake pipes, and fuel filler pipes for that matter, seems to crop up from time to time, and is relatively expensive to fix once it's gone too far. Main dealer or independent, it would be preferable if such things were highlighted at annual service, as an impending problem, as a bit of surface rust could be treated and stopped before it became critical.

Fortunately mine are fine for now, but I've taken to giving them a spray of acf-50 whenever I take the wheels off to clean the arches. It's cheap and quick to do, and hopefully will prevent any future problems, so perhaps something for others to consider.