RX450H F Sport - driver seat leather crease issue

[Geoff88]

I have my RX450H F Sport 2021 for 4.5 months. Around 3rd month, I noticed a sudden development of two straight and sharp inward folds formed on the mid-left area of the driver’s seat leather. It seems another 3 shallower creases are in the development nearby. I don’t use my Lexus often (less than 2500 miles) and most journeys are short ones. I am a slim person with 69kg weight. I haven’t used the heat/ventilation functions on the seat. I never had any sharp objects in my pockets while driving. Therefore,  I can’t think of any possible reasons to justify these as normal wear and tear. 

I read from Lexus website that RX F Sport has a front seat constructed using an integrated foaming method. This is where liquid foam is injected into the upholstery and allowed to set  - the benefit is to improved support and comfort, as well as an increase in the leather’s resistance to wear by cracking. Lexus states that Tahara leather is used in their F Sport models as an alternative to leather.

I just wonder if any other new Lexus owners here, who have F Sport seats, got similar issues with the leather as mine?

Or if you are an expert with Lexus, can you advise what to do with this issue?

[NemesisUK]

My 2019 RC300 F Sport is not showing any signs of creasing, 12k miles. My pre facelift model also had no creasing at 20k miles. Same manufacturing process, genuine leather.

Is your seat genuine leather or the Tahara vinyl?

Either way I'd be talking with the dealership...

[Geoff88]

@NemesisUK Hi Peter, many thanks for your kind reply and advice. I think that my RX would have the Tahara vinyl (fake leather), as stated by Lexus in the following link: https://mag.lexus.co.uk/18-things-you-didnt-know-about-the-lexus-rx/

[cruisermark]

Maybe try some leather feed which may make the leather supple and the creases may go?

[NemesisUK]

11 minutes ago, Geoff88 said:

@NemesisUK Hi Peter, many thanks for your kind reply and advice. I think that my RX would have the Tahara vinyl (fake leather), as stated by Lexus in the following link: https://mag.lexus.co.uk/18-things-you-didnt-know-about-the-lexus-rx/

That article is from 2016.

I think the current RX all have genuine leather, except in the North American markets. There doesn't appear to be any mention of Tahara in the current UK spec.

As I mentioned above have a chat with your dealer. It's unusual for leather (even more so if it was vinyl) to crease so easily, particularly in that area. I've heard of upholsterers using heat and steam to remove creasing but on such a new car I would be reluctant to go that way without first taking it up with the dealership.

[NemesisUK]

8 minutes ago, cruisermark said:

Maybe try some leather feed which may make the leather supple and the creases may go?

In such a new car I'd be surprised if the leather were to be 'stiff'.

Conditioners are ineffective on modern automotive leathers anyway as they are all PU coated and impervious.

[ColinBarber]

16 minutes ago, Geoff88 said:

I think that my RX would have the Tahara vinyl (fake leather), as stated by Lexus in the following link

The spec of the F Sport claims a leather interior not Tahara, and I don't think Tahara can be perforated as it would probably split. I just think the person who authored that article got that part wrong.

You shouldn't be getting those creases on such a young vehicle - warranty claim for a new seat cover. 

[royoftherovers]

1 hour ago, NemesisUK said:

My 2019 RC300 F Sport is not showing any signs of creasing, 12k miles. My pre facelift model also had no creasing at 20k miles. Same manufacturing process, genuine leather.

Is your seat genuine leather or the Tahara vinyl?

Either way I'd be talking with the dealership...

and confirming everything in writing, for the record.

[ColinBarber]

42 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

I think the current RX all have genuine leather, except in the North American markets. There doesn't appear to be any mention of Tahara in the current UK spec.

Not the F Sport, but the base grade does get Tahara in the UK without the option packs.

[Geoff88]

Hi everyone, just an update:

I have taken the seat leather crease issue up with the dealership. They took photos and and told me that they had to submit to Lexus UK for warranty claim for a new seat cover. Yesterday, the dealership told me that Lexus UK rejected the warranty claim citing the reason for those creases is because movement on the seat rather than a manufacturing fault. I am very disappointed with Lexus UK's decision on this. I also find their reject reason laughable, as I don’t move my whole left leg on the seat while driving, including on the mid-left area where the creases formed. This is because my Lexus is an automatic car, and I only need to use/move my right leg/foot for the break and accelerator pedals. Over the last weekend, I have undertaken my own investigation as to the prevalence of similar creases on the driver seat leather in Lexus RX450H F-Sport vehicles registered over the last three years (2018-2021). I looked at pre-owned Lexus cars on sale on Lexus UK’s own website. Of the 6 Lexus RX450H F-Sport vehicles identified (from 100 to 3000 mileage), none of them have creases on their driver's seat leathers. In my case, I started to observe the development of those creases around the end of 3rd month of ownership and less than 2000 mileage. 

Can anyone advise what else I could do to make my complaint heard? 

Many thanks.

[Rabbers]

Very disappointing decision on Lexus’ part.  Are you 100% confident  that the dealership really did submit your complaint?   If you are not it might be worth contacting Customer Services directly.  Or you might want to do so anyway. 

If the creases worsen any further in the near future - let’s hope they don’t - you would certainly be justified in making a new and stronger complaint.

I am on my second RC F-Sport with red leather seats, and after 70+40= 110,000km, have never seen any creasing.  

[royoftherovers]

Whether your seat covering is Genuine Leather or Genuine Vinyl, it is clearly unfit for purpose or has been fitted incorrectly.

Contact the Dealer Principal in writing and make him aware of your complaint and dissatisfaction with the seat covering.

Inform him that you expect the seat covering to be impervious to wear after 5 years service NOT THE LESS THAN 2 YEARS YOU HAVE EXPERIENCED and you would like it to be corrected.. Ask him how he would feel if his car seat had suffered similarly.

If his response is less than satisfactory to you, then inform him in writing that not only will you inform the National Motoring Press ,you will have the covering repaired or replaced and seek to recover your costs via the small claims track of the County Court, plus any costs you have incurred, plus a sum for the inconvenience you have experienced.

Do keep us updated on the progress you make and when you are ready please share the name of the Dealership which is causing you so much angst.

[08ISF]

1 hour ago, Geoff88 said:

Yesterday, the dealership told me that Lexus UK rejected the warranty claim citing the reason for those creases is because movement on the seat rather than a manufacturing fault.

It's a car seat, people move around on it getting in and out. For the warranty co to blame it on movement is laughable, it's like a shoe manufacturer  claiming that your new shoes split because you'd been walking in them. This is not a cheap car, and I'm with Roy of the Rovers, I would be pursuing this vigorously.

[F.A.]

I have found that once Lexus UK have rejected your claim and issued a frankly insulting reason for it, usually accusing you of causing the damage yourself, any further correspondence falls on deaf ears. Hugely disappointing really. 

[olliesgrandad]

I had a claim for peeling lacquer on my 2015RX wheels rejected as a warranty claim but when the dealership pushed the issue Lexus Customer services authorised the refurb of all 4 wheels as a goodwill gesture. I would push the issue further.

[peniole]

On 12/11/2021 at 12:03 PM, ColinBarber said:

I don't think Tahara can be perforated as it would probably split.

I have Tahara in my ES and it is perforated. I'm a heavy guy, 6 months and 6k+ miles, no creases. I would pursue this further, I'm sure it's worse than your pics are showing. It certainly would bug me for that to happen in such a short time/mileage.

[ColinBarber]

7 hours ago, peniole said:

I have Tahara in my ES and it is perforated.

I thought you had the premium pack which adds leather and ventilated seats?

[peniole]

1 hour ago, ColinBarber said:

I thought you had the premium pack which adds leather and ventilated seats?

Premium edition, not same as premium pack. In my model year it was a grade as well as an optional pack. The pack iirc was missing the wide screen but added leather 10 way seats with memory while the edition had the screen but not the fancier leather seats. On the new configurator it's still a grade but now the pack also has the widescreen, unless I'm misremembering.

Actually went back an checked my saved configuration it says "Black Tahara & Leather trim with Film inlays", whatever they mean by that 🤷‍♂️

Part leather? which part?

[rayaans]

I dont understand the fuss.

All leather will crease and that looks absolutely normal to me. If you sit on a seat you will get creases

Its almost like going to the dealer for kerbing your wheels. 

The picture is wear and tear as far as I am concerned and occurs when getting into and out of the vehicle. 

Its simply made worse by using the vehicle for short journeys as it increases the movement in and out of the car compared to doing massive miles.

[Geoff88]

Hi @rayaans, please see the below table summarising my own investigation as to the prevalence of similar creases on the driver seat leather in Lexus RX450H F-Sport vehicles registered over the last three years (2018-2021). I looked at pre-owned Lexus cars on sale on Lexus UK’s own website.

	0 – 3000 miles	3000 – 6000 miles	> 6000 miles
Total number of Lexus RX450H F-Sport identified	6	7	26
Number of cars with creases on driver seats	0	3	18
Number of cars without creases on driver seats	6	4	8
% of RX450H F-Sport without creases	100%	57%	31%

The above result clearly shows that a young Lexus RX450H with F-Sport leather seat like mine shouldn’t be getting those creases under 3000 miles. 

I understand that any leather products would eventually develop wrinkles and creases with age and usage. I can see from my own investigation that with time Lexus RX450H F-Sport seat leather can develop creases. However, with proper use, care and maintenance some RX450H F-Sport have remained crease free within the first three years since registration. My previous Honda CR-V had no creases on the driver seat leather after 10 years ownership. Therefore, I believe that I have been denied a chance to have/maintain a crease-free seat from the outset due to either the inferior quality leather used in my Lexus’ driver seat or an issue with the underlayment foam being inadequate or a combination of both.

Would you be happy with your Lexus seat leather developing creases at 2000 mileage?

[royoftherovers]

And,just to add a further, if somewhat irrelevant dimension, my soon to be 19 year old Mercedes E Class Estate with real leather seating has NO creases !

[rayaans]

1 hour ago, Geoff88 said:

Hi @rayaans, please see the below table summarising my own investigation as to the prevalence of similar creases on the driver seat leather in Lexus RX450H F-Sport vehicles registered over the last three years (2018-2021). I looked at pre-owned Lexus cars on sale on Lexus UK’s own website.

	0 – 3000 miles	3000 – 6000 miles	> 6000 miles
Total number of Lexus RX450H F-Sport identified	6	7	26
Number of cars with creases on driver seats	0	3	18
Number of cars without creases on driver seats	6	4	8
% of RX450H F-Sport without creases	100%	57%	31%

The above result clearly shows that a young Lexus RX450H with F-Sport leather seat like mine shouldn’t be getting those creases under 3000 miles. 

I understand that any leather products would eventually develop wrinkles and creases with age and usage. I can see from my own investigation that with time Lexus RX450H F-Sport seat leather can develop creases. However, with proper use, care and maintenance some RX450H F-Sport have remained crease free within the first three years since registration. My previous Honda CR-V had no creases on the driver seat leather after 10 years ownership. Therefore, I believe that I have been denied a chance to have/maintain a crease-free seat from the outset due to either the inferior quality leather used in my Lexus’ driver seat or an issue with the underlayment foam being inadequate or a combination of both.

Would you be happy with your Lexus seat leather developing creases at 2000 mileage?

Unless you've seen those vehicles in person and they have the same amount of dirt on them and products used the research is entirely irrelevant

Like I say, it's more likely to be caused by the leather moving based on how you're getting into the vehicle.

Additionally a lower mileage car that's slightly older is more likely to have had short trips and hence more movement in and out of the seat compared to the same aged car with even 20-30k more miles.

We all know Lexus leather is soft and supple more likely to crease. 

The other thing is your seats look oily and they need a deep clean which again makes creases appear more prominent

 

[Rabbers]

The proneness of the leather to crease is much reduced with the F-Sport seats because of the firmness of the padding and, as regards the door-side bolsters, by the flatness of the surfaces resulting from the stitching and paneling. The design is especially effective in a low car like the RC, where you tend to drop vertically into the seat on entry and exert sideways pressure only briefly when half-turning the body upon exiting.  The result, rather than wear, is therefore likelier to be a surface shine that can be satisfactorily reduced by periodic application of a leather cleaner followed by a sealant.  I can well imagine, however, that the benefits of the F-Sport design from the standpoint of reduced wear and possible creasing are not as great in a higher car like the RX where the contact between body and seat, and the consequent rubbing, is probably longer on both entry and exit.  Therefore, if creases develop, they will do so sooner.  The only "abnormality" I have seen in the F-Sport seats is a slight dimpling of the leather after use of the heating function, which I assume to be the consequence of the leather and the padding expanding and contracting at different rates, and which disappears after a day or so or maybe less.  Based on these observations, I find the creases in the photos in Geoff's OP likelier to have been caused by defective quality, perhaps in the thickness of the section of leather or in the underlying foam.

 

[cruisermark]

Hi

I found this post from the US

It looks like red leather is affected more than black - how does that change your research figures:

Is it normal to have the leather wrinkle? - Page 3 - ClubLexus - Lexus Forum Discussion

[Barry14UK]

8 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

And,just to add a further, if somewhat irrelevant dimension, my soon to be 19 year old Mercedes E Class Estate with real leather seating has NO creases !

None on my20 year old  E39 BMW also.  The leather on Mercedes and BMW is firmer as are the seats too.  The leather and underlying material in my RX450h is much softer as is the supporting material and that has creased.   I also have a soft leather suite where the armchair has had a lot more use by me and has rucked whereas the leather on the two seaters used less but mainly by my much lighter wife show only small creasing after 10 years.  So I believe the type of material and support beneath and use plays a big part and have to admit the soft leather is more comfortable if less durable.  Lexus seats will stretch and crease much earlier than the German marques by comparison.  OP is unlucky that this has happened earlier in his case than may be usual.