Americans want everything

[LittleCasper]

1 hour ago, johnatg said:

They have Shell v-power nitro+, which is rated at 93 on the PON/AKI scale. It's probably equivalent to 97/98 RON which is what v-power is in most of the world. It's 100 in Germany and Italy, 99 in UK and Denmark.

But it has all the special detergent additives which are the key features of v-power and make it worth using even if the engine doesn't need the high octane rating (which most Lexus engines don't)

 

 

I've used it in my old motorcycle with carbs and it seems to do a good job of keeping the pilot jet's gunk free, however I find Easso 99+ better as it doesn't contain ethenol where I live.

[Linas.P]

Note as well that Octane rating is not the same as fuel quality. Often it is linked, but it is far too simplified to look at it that way. It is almost like saying that vintage whisky is as good of a drink as winter windscreen wash - "because both contains 38% of alcohol". Ethanol isn't bad either, but it depends on the application, it could be added to the fuel as detergent for example.

I ran IS250 with E85 and it runs just fine, I would not recommend leaving it in the tank for long time, but in many European countries that is the only choice you get. Sure enough fuel consumption is up by 10% and power is slightly reduced (because ethanol doesn't have same power density). I am sure it cleaned my injectors and fuel system well, the only question - how much detergent in fuel is too much? 

[eleveneleven]

2 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Not quite sure what you mean - GS is equivalent of E-Class/5-Series, whereas C-Class/3-Series and IS are direct competitors, in entry luxury market. The true "luxo barge" is LS/7-Series/S-Class, whereas Class below that (GS etc) is large/sport saloon. 

I agree with your second paragraph, but it seems you are contradicting yourself in 3rd and 4th paragraphs. So on one hand we agree that in US it is bought by teenagers as first car, but then you say it is not considered "luxo barge here", despite OP kind of insisting it is and should not under any circumstance be compared with "sporty cars"... which to me indicates people look at them like way bigger car and way more luxury oriented then they are in other countries. IS - is entry luxury sports sedan, so being sporty and "fast" isn't unnatural for such car.

And even outside of this thread I have owned multiple IS250s... just got another one few weeks ago and I know how people look at it. "True Brits" always comments that it is "fancy car", "not sure I could afford to run such car" and "I am not sure I need such powerful, large, luxury car"... which for me not being "true brit" always sounds funny, because I consider it small and frugal daily runabout car, nothing fancy at all, just well put together comfortable, not offensively slow car. 

In most countries something like Passat/A4 is considered average car. Then obviously, there is fancier version of average car and that is where entry-luxury comes in 3-Series, C-Class and IS - same size but little bit sportier/luxurious. Amuricans have taste for bigger cars so their average car would be ~A6 range, CrownVic used to be staple in US (and that is large V8 sedan, definitely larger than Mondeo), hence they really liked ES - which isn't really 5-Series competitor, but it is "larger car".

Compare that to UK and it seems average motorists considers Fiesta/Focus as about average and anything larger than that is considered "large and luxurious". Now obviously that is generalisation and I can't get to every person's head, but that seems to be the case to me after many years driving in UK and comparing to Europe.

And this is in particular is false US uses MON Octane rating and we use RON. 87 MON = 95 RON. So at least as far as rating is concerned they have same fuel.

I agree with what you're saying I thought your were talking about the size of the car only

if we're talking about the size of the car, a 250 is a similar size to a focus, golf, 3 series etc. it's not considered large, its seen as a standard luxury car, a "nice" car, definitely not a "luxo barge"

If we're talking engine size then yes in the UK 2.5 is considered a "big" engine. to the non car person living in the UK anything over a 2Litre is considered a big engine and therefore assumed to be expensive to run. it's why most cars with big petrol engines can be had for next to nothing in the UK.  Completely different story in the states as you already know. A 2.5v6 is a baby engine, probably the equivalent to a standard 1.6 4pot here, A teenager driving a 5Litre V8 is normal. it's why the American market get cars like the 350 and we don't

A 5series, GS, E class, A6 - are considered big cars here, these are what the general public would consider a "luxo barge" or a "fancy" car. Similar story with 7/ S/ LS/A8 etc to the non car person which likely accounts for the vast majority the true luxo barge is pretty much in the same category as the large/sport saloon. A range rover is probably considered to be more luxurious than any Lexus LS

(not fact at all just my opinion)

 

[Linas.P]

14 minutes ago, eleveneleven said:

I agree with what you're saying I thought your were talking about the size of the car only

if we're talking about the size of the car, a 250 is a similar size to a focus, golf, 3 series etc. it's not considered large, its seen as a standard luxury car, a "nice" car, definitely not a "luxo barge"

If we're talking engine size then yes in the UK 2.5 is considered a "big" engine. to the non car person living in the UK anything over a 2Litre is considered a big engine and therefore assumed to be expensive to run. it's why most cars with big petrol engines can be had for next to nothing in the UK.  Completely different story in the states as you already know. A 2.5v6 is a baby engine, probably the equivalent to a standard 1.6 4pot here, A teenager driving a 5Litre V8 is normal. it's why the American market get cars like the 350 and we don't

A 5series, GS, E class, A6 - are considered big cars here, these are what the general public would consider a "luxo barge" or a "fancy" car. Similar story with 7/ S/ LS/A8 etc to the non car person which likely accounts for the vast majority the true luxo barge is pretty much in the same category as the large/sport saloon. A range rover is probably considered to be more luxurious than any Lexus LS

(not fact at all just my opinion)

Yeah seems like we on the same page... Insurance have refused to insure me two years ago on RC200t - they said "this is fast and powerful car for a young person" and I was 29 at the time! Anything just about 2L+ is powerful here - what a joke!

Which is probably nicely turns back into the topic. OP is probably right to consider IS250 "fast" for UK public standards. But I guess I am trying to defend americans calling it "slow", because for them it is. 

Other thing - perceived "slowness", for example same CrownVic has 8.4s 0-60 (same as IS250), but as you can imagine with that V8 it is way louder and feels way faster, whereas IS250 is just generally very quiet and well insulated car, so it doesn't provide same sensation of speed and thus seems like slower than it is... What I am saying - for americans where everything including lawnmower and mobility scooter has V8 and are loud, the quiet V6 Lexus probably makes impression of slow car. 

Looking from different angle - CrownVic is obsolete car designed in 80s and it has same acceleration as IS250, doesn't that make IS250 objectively "slow" - at least in their environment.   

[eleveneleven]

True indeed 

Personally anything over 400bhp is overkill for UK roads. (that's not to say I wouldn't own a car with more than 400bhp haha.) I've driven quite a few of the older M3 comps, C63s etc they're all stupid fast but unable to put all the power down most of the time (and that's when it's dry) Pushing An slightly slower but lighter, more agile car to it's limits on a back road is much more rewarding in my opinion.   

That being said I think the IS 350 would have been out of place in UK there's not much it does better than the 250. 

Would it cruise better on the motorway? only just...The IS250 sits at 2krpm at 70 2.4k at 80, engine as quiet as a mouse barley even breaking a sweat with still enough power on tap for overtaking. Both cars would be equally as refined, the 350 having more power in reserve. pointless given the 70 speed limit.

On the twisties the 250 isn't all that nimble. It's a heavy car and you feel it when you start attempting to throw it around, gearbox is slow to react. Adding extra power and weight would be of no real benefit on a British B road.

all we'd have got was car that moved a quicker in a straight line at the cost of heavier fuel consumption a larger insurance premium and probably bigger servicing costs along with more frequent tyre, brake changes. Not really worth it IMO. would loved to have tried one though. 

The GS 350 would have made more sense in UK.

 

 

 

 

[Linas.P]

It certainly wouldn't be best seller, but it has it's own niche - BMW manages to sell 340i, MB manages to sell C350, so I am sure some IS350 would have been sold. I am not sure if it would have been enough to justify bringing it here, but it depends on Lexus plans. I would say that every car they sell even at loss is better than car their competitor sells (that is how LS400 and Lexus brand happened overall). So I would say it was worth bringing it here just to stick it to competitors.

Besides there is genuine niche, people like me who wants just little bit more power from car, but without going to IS-F, sort of 300-350hp which in my opinion is sweet spot for passenger car - properly fast, without being obnoxious, dangerous, costly and so on. That is why people love BMW E46 M3 - it is just exactly manageable power which is fun to drive without being scared. 

As far as insurance and road tax... yes I am sure one would have to sell organs to insure one here, but road tax is already £585 on manual IS250, so IS350 would not be much worse.

Surprisingly, IS350 is actually lower on maintenance cost - it doesn't have carbon issue in the engine as IS250, it does not have as much brake fade and wear (actually it is quite nice upgrade to put IS350 brakes on IS250). Generally, speaking 2GR-FSE is slightly more reliable engine than 4GR-FSE, no issues with sticking valve lifters, no issues with chain stretching or guides... just my opinion, but maybe 2.5L is little bit underpowered and overstretched pulling heavy car and thus overtime wears out, whereas larger 3.5L just generally has easier life by being optimally sized. That is why 2GR-FSE lives on and 4GR-FSE was discontinued. 

Now granted - IS350 is more of a cruiser and whereas it is great in american canyon, British B-roads are just way too narrow for such car. I am sure that one can have way more fun in Caterham or Mazda MX 5 any day - one really needs small and nimble car here. 

Finally, where I think it is reasonable to argue IS350 didn't have much point in UK, but not bringing RC350 was real crime. For 4-door family car engine power is less of an issue, but gutless sports coupe was real shame, because it does matter for people who buy such cars. Same argument can be made about IS-C, 350 would have been way more appropriate for convertible and would have provided at least some alternative to keep people coming of SC430 (who in this reality were left in the dry).

 

[LittleCasper]

On 12/13/2021 at 5:43 PM, Linas.P said:

They definitely have equivalent of that. 91 Octane in US ~ 98 Octane here. And you can see they even have 93... which is your super ultra duper 100 or something. I mean I generally have reservations about petrol quality in US, but at least where Octane ratings are concerned they are the same. US petrol is worse for other reasons and Octane isn't one of the, 

Why do they need so many options? I'm surprised there isn't a "Max" version, every company seems to have max, plus or pro in their product names now.

[Linas.P]

Is it really that much different from UK or EU? We have 99 Momentum, and 98 Maxpower and all sorts of silly "ultimate names". at very least we have 95,97,98,99 and some countries in Europe adds 100, 101 and 102 to the mix.