Americans want everything

[LittleCasper]

Am I the only person thatv's noticed when you look on American forums in regards to the is250 all they say is it's slow? Is the IS250 slow or are Americans just ***** measuring because of their V8 Mo-Turs? I would have thought power is absolutely pointless in most us states because of the 55mph speed limits anyways.

I don't think 8s 0 to 60 is slow especially for a car that's designed to get you everywhere in total comfort.

[NemesisUK]

It's as much to do with how the power is delivered as the actual power.

[BeepBeep]

1 minute ago, NemesisUK said:

It's as much to do with how the power is delivered as the actual power.

To be fair the last American car I was in had an automatic gearbox from the 16th century, makes sense.

[BeepBeep]

2 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

It's as much to do with how the power is delivered as the actual power.

Also that RC300h looks the absolute dogs knackkers.

[johnatg]

There aren't many 55mph speed limits in most mainland US states. Limits vary but are mostly in the range 65-80mph (out of town obviously). Texas State Highway 130 has a posted limit of 85mph.

[Texas]

The double nickel speed limit (55)was implemented during the 70’s fuel crisis era to save fuel obviously and it seems to be assumed never to have changed.

[BC99]

Performance is adequate, although would really hope for more given the mpg, would be nice to try the 350 that was available in US.

the car feels heavy though, well because it is... but any sort of spirited driving is generally limited also by the comfortable seats not being very hugging. 🤣

Automatic gearbox also limits things a bit.

It's pretty unbeatable though for relaxed cruising though, especially on motorway. Just eats up the miles and not tiring at all.

[MartinH]

Yes was looking at the IS350 and feeling regretful that such a nice all-round 'sedan' is not sold here. But then you get to the gas mileage — 19 mpg in town driving. That's gotta hurt!

Edited December 6, 2021 by MartinH
punctuation

[NeilS]

I agree with BC99's comments, performance is adequate for a 200hp V6. But having owned mine (IS250 C)for almost a year now, I feel it could do with slightly more power especially on steep hills. As has been said though, that could be down to the lazy auto box. Fuel economy could be more generous too, but again, it's a heavy car for its' size. I get 28/29 mpg around town and 30 - 32 on the daily, which involves about half traffic jams and half m-way & dual.

You have to remember these cars are mid-size, mid-range luxury tourers/cruisers and they do that extremely well. They were never designed with 'performance' in mind. A better compromise might be something German.

For now though, I'm more than happy with what I've got.

[Mincey]

I must say that I've given up reading Club Lexus. Americans to me, or at least those who frequent that forum, seem like a bunch of moaning, complaining, whining muppets. 

[Linas.P]

On 12/5/2021 at 5:31 PM, LittleCasper said:

Am I the only person thatv's noticed when you look on American forums in regards to the is250 all they say is it's slow? Is the IS250 slow or are Americans just ***** measuring because of their V8 Mo-Turs? I would have thought power is absolutely pointless in most us states because of the 55mph speed limits anyways.

I don't think 8s 0 to 60 is slow especially for a car that's designed to get you everywhere in total comfort.

Completely personal thing, I am not american, but I think IS250 is borderline slow, well - it is NOT fast, that is probably better way of saying it. It was decent when it launched and competitive i.e. similar to BMW 325 or Merc C230/280, so other point to recognise - it is 16 years old model. It was way more fuel efficient and way faster than both IS200/300, so it was strong replacement at the time, but with modern standards it is not fast for sure. 

What you need to recognise, that in US they have an option to buy IS350 and compared to that (5.6s to 60) IS250 is slow. It is all relative, personal, subjective thing. If you happy with the power of IS250 then that is fine, if somebody consider it slow, then it is slow. I found it just borderline acceptable and I would be in the camp where I would have wished Lexus to develop the car further - modernise fuel delivery (add Atkinson cycle and add port injection like IS350), mate it with faster 8-Speed auto (like they did with IS350 and IS200t) and if car can be made marginally more efficient (10-15% fuel economy certainly within reach) and little bit more powerful (maybe 240-250hp) it would be just perfect.

BTW - IS250 automatic box is fine for what it is (torque converter automatic), sure it is not DSG so no point comparing with that, DSG is completely different beast.  So I would not agree it is "lazy" box, especially for it's age.

[LittleCasper]

1 hour ago, Mincey said:

I must say that I've given up reading Club Lexus. Americans to me, or at least those who frequent that forum, seem like a bunch of moaning, complaining, whining muppets. 

They call every car slow if it doesn't have a 0 to 60 under 4 seconds.

[LittleCasper]

54 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Completely personal thing, I am not american, but I think IS250 is borderline slow, well - it is NOT fast, that is probably better way of saying it. It was decent when it launched and competitive i.e. similar to BMW 325 or Merc C230/280, so other point to recognise - it is 16 years old model. It was way more fuel efficient and way faster than both IS200/300, so it was strong replacement at the time, but with modern standards it is not fast for sure. 

What you need to recognise, that in US they have an option to buy IS350 and compared to that (5.6s to 60) IS250 is slow. It is all relative, personal, subjective thing. If you happy with the power of IS250 then that is fine, if somebody consider it slow, then it is slow. I found it just borderline acceptable and I would be in the camp where I would have wished Lexus to develop the car further - modernise fuel delivery (add Atkinson cycle and add port injection like IS350), mate it with faster 8-Speed auto (like they did with IS350 and IS200t) and if car can be made marginally more efficient (10-15% fuel economy certainly within reach) and little bit more powerful (maybe 240-250hp) it would be just perfect.

BTW - IS250 automatic box is fine for what it is (torque converter automatic), sure it is not DSG so no point comparing with that, DSG is completely different beast.  So I would not agree it is "lazy" box, especially for it's age.

I'd rather not have a DSG tbh, too many problems with earlier models of them.

 

I still don't get how they can call it slow though, the most annoying thing is people with the standard suspension moaning about it not being sporty; who's buying a comfy lexus to be a sports car. If I wanted something sporty I'd buy a 3series with rock hard wheeles.

[Linas.P]

 

1 minute ago, LittleCasper said:

I'd rather not have a DSG tbh, too many problems with earlier models of them.

I still don't get how they can call it slow though, the most annoying thing is people with the standard suspension moaning about it not being sporty; who's buying a comfy lexus to be a sports car. If I wanted something sporty I'd buy a 3series with rock hard wheeles.

You probably meant - All DSG models 😄 And it would not say "problems", but DSG is just inherently more complex, requires more maintenance and that maintenance is more costly... so naturally when the car has 100k miles on it the DSG will be one big problem, unless somebody has continuously maintained it to high standards which is costly. On other hand Aisin A960e in IS250 is pretty much bulletproof and don't need anything done with it for hundreds of thousands of miles. So I am with you on this one.

I think here you need to accept that they have same right to have their opinion as you have to have yours - that you own IS250 and you think it is fast enough that does not give you right to force everyone to think the same. You annoying yourself won't make any difference and they will continue to call the car slow. It was advertised as sporty car, so argument is not unfounded, granted BMW is more sporty and at the same time it indeed comes with rock hard run-flats which are just awful. I had 2010 E90 328Xi and replacing the tyres was the very first thing on my list. Again I am kind of with you on this one, I had BMW 3-Series, I had MB C-Class (C350 Avantgarde) and all things considered Lexus IS250 was very comparable in all aspects. BMW was certainly more sporty, steering more sharp, C-Class more comfortable, but had awful built quality and Lexus was great balance between the two - sporty enough, comfortable enough, not fast, but way better built and reliable then other 2.

If people want to make it sportier by fitting different suspension, then who is there to stop them to do whatever they like with their cars? If I had a choice between IS250 and IS350 I would definitely take IS350 any day. And here is another angle - I think in UK we have more right to say IS250 is slow, because we never had a choice, whereas amuricans don't have right to say that in my opinion, because if they don't like IS250 then it is their fault - they could have gone for IS300 or IS350 instead. 

[NeilS]

4 hours ago, Mincey said:

I must say that I've given up reading Club Lexus. Americans to me, or at least those who frequent that forum, seem like a bunch of moaning, complaining, whining muppets. 

Maybe I should live in the US, cos I'm never satisfied either! 

[Phil xxkr]

52 minutes ago, NeilS said:

Maybe I should live in the US, cos I'm never satisfied either! 

Get them to move to Minceys moaning column 😎

[NeilS]

8 hours ago, LittleCasper said:

I'd rather not have a DSG tbh, too many problems with earlier models of them.

 

I still don't get how they can call it slow though

I think it depends on what cars have been owned previously, as the tendancy is to compare them to your latest purchase. Also, expectation v reality can sometimes be two different entities. 

[NeilS]

9 hours ago, Linas.P said:

I think IS250 is borderline slow, well - it is NOT fast, that is probably better way of saying it.

What you need to recognise, that in US they have an option to buy IS350 and compared to that (5.6s to 60) IS250 is slow. It is all relative, personal, subjective thing. If you happy with the power of IS250 then that is fine, if somebody consider it slow, then it is slow. I found it just borderline acceptable and I would be in the camp where I would have wished Lexus to develop the car further - modernise fuel delivery (add Atkinson cycle and add port injection like IS350), mate it with faster 8-Speed auto (like they did with IS350 and IS200t) and if car can be made marginally more efficient (10-15% fuel economy certainly within reach) and little bit more powerful (maybe 240-250hp) it would be just perfect.

I agree with all of your excellent points there Linas. Might I also point out that on pretty much all of the US reviews of the 250 and 350 on the tube of you, all the reviewers recommend the IS350. 

Someone quoted a fuel consumption figure of 19mpg 😯 I understand that the cost of petrol over there is waaay cheaper than it is in the UK. 

BTW, apologies for going off topic but didn't Mazda experiment with the Atkinson cycle? Or was it the Miller cycle? 

[LittleCasper]

22 minutes ago, NeilS said:

I think it depends on what cars have been owned previously, as the tendancy is to compare them to your latest purchase. Also, expectation v reality can sometimes be two different entities. 

I ride a motorcycle to work so when I get in my car it doesn't feel fast at all, although I drive a van which does 0 to 60 in 14 seconds; now that's slow. 

7.5 seconds to 60 would feel like a rocket ship to me if I didn't have my bike 😂😂

[Linas.P]

9 minutes ago, NeilS said:

I agree with all of your excellent points there Linas. Might I also point out that on pretty much all of the US reviews of the 250 and 350 on the tube of you, all the reviewers recommend the IS350. 

Someone quoted a fuel consumption figure of 19mpg 😯 I understand that the cost of petrol over there is waaay cheaper than it is in the UK. 

BTW, apologies for going off topic but didn't Mazda experiment with the Atkinson cycle? Or was it the Miller cycle? 

Mazda once made engine with miller cycle. The 2GR-FSE (IS350) got option to switch to Atkinson-cycle when cruising as part of update in 2013. 19MPG is for mk2 (2005-2012) and I believe mk3 claims 24MPG, but there are amurican gallons (23 to 29 UK MPGs). In UK we only got IS200t (kind of replacement for IS250) and believe me - it had way way worse MPG and yet still way slower than IS350. 

[GMG]

...it's plenty fast enough for daily driving...I have a Porsche 911 in the garage and tbh when 'on it' it's too fast for the road...

...I had a VW Golf Gti in 1988 and from memory the performance figures are identical and that was a Hot Hatch...

...unless you drive everywhere like a complete knob it's absolutely fine...

...if you want a performance car then there are plenty of other better more targeted options...

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, GMG said:

...it's plenty fast enough for daily driving...I have a Porsche 911 in the garage and tbh when 'on it' it's too fast for the road...

...I had a VW Golf Gti in 1988 and from memory the performance figures are identical and that was a Hot Hatch...

...unless you drive everywhere like a complete knob it's absolutely fine...

...if you want a performance car then there are plenty of other better more targeted options...

I guess that is very privileged situation to be in i.e. to be able to have dedicated car for each purpose - I agree this is best way, because every car is compromise, so to have the best car for each situation requires having multiple cars. However, I would say majority of people don't have such privilege, so once car has to do everything and that is why I understand why people want reasonable comfortable, yet reasonably sporty and fast car. Fun fact every manufacturer markets every car like that, but in reality they not good at anything.

[johnatg]

 

13 hours ago, NeilS said:

I agree with all of your excellent points there Linas. Might I also point out that on pretty much all of the US reviews of the 250 and 350 on the tube of you, all the reviewers recommend the IS350. 

Someone quoted a fuel consumption figure of 19mpg 😯 I understand that the cost of petrol over there is waaay cheaper than it is in the UK. 

BTW, apologies for going off topic but didn't Mazda experiment with the Atkinson cycle? Or was it the Miller cycle? 

Mazda used Miller cycle engines in some versions of the Xedos 6 and 9 (sold under Eunos brand name in Japan and Oz.) in the 90s. Ran alongside the 626 and 929. I needed a part from a 929 (speedo drive gear) for my MX-5 when I fitted a higher ratio diff last year. Amazingly still easily available.

Miller cycle is very similar to Atkinson cycle - uses a supercharger - Atkinson is normally aspirated. Atkinson cycle engines are fitted to all (?) Lexus hybrids

[Linas.P]

26 minutes ago, johnatg said:

 Xedos 6 and 9 

Only Xedos 9 and single unit - 2.25L Supercharged V6 KJ-ZEM, strange that Mazda didn't continue with that engine, because it sounds great on paper. I wonder what were the issues. 

[MartinH]

My recollection of the Mazda Xedos that I rented back in the last century is that it had a naturally aspirated straight-six. Or was it a V6, as shown in the ad above? Very pleasing car and possibly my recollection of it played in to my subsequent purchases of Toyota Camry (two) and eventually, when we did not need such a large car, an IS250, the latter a bit long in the tooth now but still an all-round pleasure to be in, either as driver or passenger. In the front, anyway.