Gen 3 Ceramic Coating

[Dave 2951]

As part of my purchase deal for my September 2021 NX Premium Sport in Graphite Black the above ceramic coating was used. I am now finding numerous what I describe as hairline small scratches on the body work. Today under the Bodywork insurance a Body repairer visited and polished out scratches in two areas. At the same time we found a thrid scratch which again was polished out.When i later went to the vehicle the third area was showing again not one but three hairline scratches. I do appreciate black is excellent at showing any marks but I have two questions. 1. Should ceramic coating prevent minor scratches in most cases and 2. Having had a Polisher used on various areas would the coating require re applying. I am taking my car to the Dealership to show them although they suggest coating only  prevents oxidisation.

[DBIZO]

Keen to hear what you find out from the Dealer. As you point out at the end of your post, I think they will claim no responsibility, as the ceramic coating does not protect against scratches, but protects chemically, keeping the paints' shine longer. It's not intuitive from the name, because ceramics are hard materials, and one can imagine a ceramic coating is a ceramic coating. It isn't. It's a treatment of the paint.

[NemesisUK]

In my experience of two cars ceramic coated from new, it does not protect against scratches or wash marring/swirls. What it does do is maintain the gloss and shine of the paint and makes it so much easier to keep clean. As above the term 'ceramic' leads one to believe a hard protective coating but no.

With regard to your repairs, the polished areas should really be recoated and it actually specifies this in my documentation supplied with the car.

[rayaans]

1 hour ago, Dave 2951 said:

As part of my purchase deal for my September 2021 NX Premium Sport in Graphite Black the above ceramic coating was used. I am now finding numerous what I describe as hairline small scratches on the body work. Today under the Bodywork insurance a Body repairer visited and polished out scratches in two areas. At the same time we found a thrid scratch which again was polished out.When i later went to the vehicle the third area was showing again not one but three hairline scratches. I do appreciate black is excellent at showing any marks but I have two questions. 1. Should ceramic coating prevent minor scratches in most cases and 2. Having had a Polisher used on various areas would the coating require re applying. I am taking my car to the Dealership to show them although they suggest coating only  prevents oxidisation.

It's not scratch proof. It might protect to an extent but not loads. As in with a fingernail it should protect but with an actual nail I doubt it

Yes it needs reapplying after the paint is polished

Gen3 glasscoat is OK but it's nowhere near a proper ceramic coating that hardens at 9H. The other issue is application. Dealer valeters will rush it and it won't be properly applied. 

[NemesisUK]

1 minute ago, rayaans said:

The other issue is application. Dealer valeters will rush it and it won't be properly applied. 

A generalisation, I'm sure there are good and bad out there. My dealership uses a local detailer to do their paintwork corrections and coatings.

[rayaans]

59 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

A generalisation, I'm sure there are good and bad out there. My dealership uses a local detailer to do their paintwork corrections and coatings.

The majority are rubbish. It's worth seeing how they work and also worth finding out who is doing it / which company is involved. 

There are definitely detailers who work on behalf of dealerships, but they almost certainly won't apply gen3 glasscoat onto a car. 

The other aspect is. What's a detailer? Nowadays we have driveway valeters calling themselves detailers. 

[Dave 2951]

Just to add to this the lad who came to carry out my repair on a personal note thought that the coating was a waste of money and over priced. lol

[rayaans]

5 minutes ago, Dave 2951 said:

Just to add to this the lad who came to carry out my repair on a personal note thought that the coating was a waste of money and over priced. lol

I'm not surprised. Most of these dealer coatings are quite rubbish in reality. 

It pays to just get a professional detailer to do it with well established coatings 

[LenT]

8 minutes ago, Dave 2951 said:

Just to add to this the lad who came to carry out my repair on a personal note thought that the coating was a waste of money and over priced. lol

Now they tell you!!

I think this is the kind of dealer add-on that’s offered as a ‘complimentary’ sales sweetener hidden away in the overall purchase price.  And it’s probably applied on site by the lads who do the valeting.

My Detailer used Modesta ceramic coatings which are of a different order of efficacy.  Nevertheless, if you wanted even more in the way of scratch and chip protection, you’d have to go for the full wrap.

Although a substantial investment, because the car has to be meticulously prepared, it is arguably even better when applied to a new vehicle.  It can also be removed and replaced if it should suffer any surface damage.

[Dave 2951]

Visited my Dealership this morning as far as they are concerned they are scratches caused by either handbags or Cats. OK what should i do keep claiming from my Smart Insurance. They then used the attached to remove one scratch it removed or hid two of the three. Attached is a photo of one of the scratches which was polished out most are not that long.

[rayaans]

I mean at the end of the day scratches will happen unless you get the whole car covered in ppf.

Just leave it for a while and get the smart insurance to repair it every year or so. 

Or, invest in a polisher and do it yourself

[Dave 2951]

My thoughts exactly not going to beat myself up over it.

[Linas.P]

As above, in my experience ceramic coatings (even proper ones), do not prevent scratching, maybe reduces swirling a little bit. But again that really assumes proper washing on the car, with prewash, proper an clean mitts etc. If you detail the car and then just take it to automatic car wash or corner hand wash (which in some cases can be far worse than automatic wash) then it is just waste of time, it would be just as scratched as without coating and the coating itself will fail within 3 or 6 months (depends how often you scratch the car). Ceramic coatings are not magic - if you get the car dirty often and then just wash it with garden hose and dirty rag, then no coating will help.

I said that if I would ever buy new car, get it detailed etc. then I would apply full body clear film. That is the only and ultimate protection if you want to protect the actual pain from serious scratches and stone chips. 

[First_Lexus]

On 12/2/2021 at 9:34 PM, LenT said:

Now they tell you!!

I think this is the kind of dealer add-on that’s offered as a ‘complimentary’ sales sweetener hidden away in the overall purchase price.  And it’s probably applied on site by the lads who do the valeting.

My Detailer used Modesta ceramic coatings which are of a different order of efficacy.  Nevertheless, if you wanted even more in the way of scratch and chip protection, you’d have to go for the full wrap.

Although a substantial investment, because the car has to be meticulously prepared, it is arguably even better when applied to a new vehicle.  It can also be removed and replaced if it should suffer any surface damage.

^^ Agree totally @LenT and with most of the other comments too. A properly applied ceramic coating - following professional correction - won’t prevent scratches caused by poor wash technique or anything else for that matter. As others have said, the majority of ‘dealer applied’ coatings thrown in at the time of purchase will likely be applied by non-experts. 

Far better to have a real professional sort it, as I have on my last two Lexus (NX and RX). The results are amazing, and make for much simpler ongoing maintenance in my experience. I collected my new RX following it’s ‘beautification’ earlier today…

[LenT]

41 minutes ago, First_Lexus said:

Far better to have a real professional sort it, as I have on my last two Lexus (NX and RX). The results are amazing, and make for much simpler ongoing maintenance in my experience. I collected my new RX following it’s ‘beautification’ earlier today…

Excellent results Ed.  
It demonstrates the advantage of having a professional Detailer spend time on a new car - the applied finishes get the best possible start in life.

So it’s not just the  initial improvement in the ‘new car’ finish, which to be fair, many if not most buyers, might consider unnecessary, but also the long term benefits in maintaining that finish.

Like all such investments, the quality remains long after the price has been forgotten.

[ColinBarber]

On 12/10/2021 at 12:14 PM, Linas.P said:

I said that if I would ever buy new car, get it detailed etc. then I would apply full body clear film. That is the only and ultimate protection if you want to protect the actual pain from serious scratches and stone chips. 

Yeah a PPF is the way to go but it is so expensive and problematic for some insurance companies who treat it almost like a coloured wrap.

[Linas.P]

Not sure why this would have any relation to insurance? I guess unless you get involved in the accident and try to claim for PPF replacement? At that point I guess it would count as undeclared modification, which would not surprise me as insurers are **** and reasoning with them is pointless.

I look at PPF same as I would look at ceramic coating or even wax, it is just additional protection for my car so it looks shinier for longer, I would not claim it in case of accident. But I agree any film is priced ridiculously now in UK.

I remember good 10-15 years ago before they became crazy popular wrapping entire car costed like £400-£600, because let's not forget that car wrapping technology came from commercial vehicle advertisement and to put company branding and advert on the van was like £150-£200, there was as well "tunners scene" in early 2000's with various decals and then somebody realised new business idea where wrapping entire car would make them 3 times more money, yet would be 3 times less expensive than paint and could be removed later-on when somebody inevitably get's bored driving rose gold chrome car. Protection to be hones was not planned and came just as added bonus. So it was win, win, win + win.

Nowadays it is crazy - wrap costs £2000, £3000 even £6000 which is not only not less expensive, but it is now more expensive than paint, which defeats the purpose of temporary "paint protection". 

I personally have an option to go abroad and do clear wrap still for like £500, so maybe that is why I look at it as disposable. At very least I would do front of the car to protect it from stone chips as it only takes 20k miles and front of the car is like sand-blasted. The small scratches on the sides can still be polished out so less critical to wrap.

[ColinBarber]

16 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Not sure why this would have any relation to insurance? I guess unless you get involved in the accident and try to claim for PPF replacement? At that point I guess it would count as undeclared modification, which would not surprise me as insurers are **** and reasoning with them is pointless.

I think it is because it takes time and effort to remove the PPF if bodywork/paint repair is needed, even if the PPF itself isn't covered and won't be replaced.

[LenT]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

Not sure why this would have any relation to insurance? I guess unless you get involved in the accident and try to claim for PPF replacement? At that point I guess it would count as undeclared modification, which would not surprise me as insurers are **** and reasoning with them is pointless.

I look at PPF same as I would look at ceramic coating or even wax, it is just additional protection for my car so it looks shinier for longer, I would not claim it in case of accident. But I agree any film is priced ridiculously now in UK.

I remember good 10-15 years ago before they became crazy popular wrapping entire car costed like £400-£600, because let's not forget that car wrapping technology came from commercial vehicle advertisement and to put company branding and advert on the van was like £150-£200, there was as well "tunners scene" in early 2000's with various decals and then somebody realised new business idea where wrapping entire car would make them 3 times more money, yet would be 3 times less expensive than paint and could be removed later-on when somebody inevitably get's bored driving rose gold chrome car. Protection to be hones was not planned and came just as added bonus. So it was win, win, win + win.

Nowadays it is crazy - wrap costs £2000, £3000 even £6000 which is not only not less expensive, but it is now more expensive than paint, which defeats the purpose of temporary "paint protection". 

I personally have an option to go abroad and do clear wrap still for like £500, so maybe that is why I look at it as disposable. At very least I would do front of the car to protect it from stone chips as it only takes 20k miles and front of the car is like sand-blasted. The small scratches on the sides can still be polished out so less critical to wrap.

A very good analysis, Linus.  When I had mine ‘Detailed’ I did consider having the nose done - for the very reasons you suggest.

In the end I decided against it.  I reasoned that my mileage, for many reasons, was going to be low and I could afford to wait and see how it was actually affected.  Right now only a couple of pinholes have appeared in the paint, which I can deal with myself.  So the extra cost would not have been justified.

But of course the main advantage of a ‘wrap’ is that it can be applied - and reapplied - with comparative ease by a practiced Detailer.  So a nose job is not necessarily out of the question!

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, ColinBarber said:

I think it is because it takes time and effort to remove the PPF if bodywork/paint repair is needed, even if the PPF itself isn't covered and won't be replaced.

Sounds like just an excuse for reducing or rejecting claim. If panel is dented they would have to replace it anyway i.e. removing film thus isn't necessary to inspect it. Insurance very rarely repairs panels - if they cheap enough and could be unbolted, then they simply get new panel and if are expensive, or structural then they will write-off the car before repair process and inspection becomes relevant. 

I had a lot of painful experience with insurance, just didn't know they could question basically the owner's  right to clean and protect their car. But I am not surprised to be honest - insurance is real pain if you get involved in accident, even if it is not your fault. 

[Juicedrinker]

On 12/2/2021 at 7:41 PM, rayaans said:

The majority are rubbish. It's worth seeing how they work and also worth finding out who is doing it / which company is involved. 

There are definitely detailers who work on behalf of dealerships, but they almost certainly won't apply gen3 glasscoat onto a car. 

The other aspect is. What's a detailer? Nowadays we have driveway valeters calling themselves detailers. 

You are absolutely spot on with this comment, I'm sick of seeing every valeter calling themselves a detailers when they are most definately NOT detailers.  Its an insult to the professional details and concourse trained people when everyone and their dog sets up businesses and charges for work that is often detrimental in the long (and often) short term to the vehicle.