IS to ES

[Guest]

After over 30000 (faultless) miles in my IS300h Advance, average 50.6mpg on the computer, I have decided to say goodbye, never completely warmed to the car despite it never letting me down. However I am a convert to the Lexus brand so after looking at the RX and ES I am, financial stuff willing, changing to a 20 plate ES300h Takumi, I have to say I found the difference between the IS and ES quite significant, it felt a very comfortable solid ride and the spec should hopefully satisfy every need, so hopefully here’s to a lot more than 30000 miles in the ES

[SH20]

You only have to look on the Lexus website online car configurator to see just how much  equipment  the Takumi ES is fitted with. Very impressive specification.   Unlike BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Jaguar etc  whose option lists look like telephone directories.   

E.G  An entry level Jaguar XE starts at £30K with basic equipment.   If you wanted roughly the same spec  in the Jaguar as a Takumi ES it would cost you nearly £45K.  Enough said I think.    

[Bounce75]

22 minutes ago, SH20 said:

You only have to look on the Lexus website online car configurator to see just how much  equipment  the Takumi ES is fitted with. Very impressive specification.   Unlike BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Jaguar etc  whose option lists look like telephone directories.   

E.G  An entry level Jaguar XE starts at £30K with basic equipment.   If you wanted roughly the same spec  in the Jaguar as a Takumi ES it would cost you nearly £45K.  Enough said I think.    

But an ES Takumi is £49,455, so that nearly ££4,500 more than the Jag you are quoting?🤔

[paulrnx]

The equivalent Jaguar to an ES is an XF I would have thought. Jaguars do drive so much nicer than a Lexus in terms of roadholding, handling and enjoyment.

[First_Lexus]

9 minutes ago, paulrnx said:

The equivalent Jaguar to an ES is an XF I would have thought. Jaguars do drive so much nicer than a Lexus in terms of roadholding, handling and enjoyment.

I’ve got a former colleague who works for JLR. He says they only keep their company cars for 3-6 months as if they keep them for any longer they tend to break…😆

They also tell a joke amongst themselves. 

“What are the only two man made things visible from space? 

1. the Great Wall of China

2. the panel gaps on a JLR product…”

[SH20]

The point I was wanting to make was the Jag XE is their lowest entry car at £30K, I agree an XF is more of a comparison size wise but they start at £34K as a base line model.  So the Takumi ES equipment level is  very high but a Jag XF  would need to have all of the following XF options  to get any where near to matching  a Takumi ES.

Met Paint, privacy glass, auto high beam headlights, headlamp wash, sun roof, 16 way adjustable heated and ventilated seats, wood veneer, heated and electrically adjustable steering wheel, windscreen heads up display, upgrade to sound system, blind spot assist, adaptive cruise control, rear traffic/collision monitor, rear window blind, keyless entry, boot lid spoiler, wi fi phone charger, additional rear power and charging sockets, 360 degree camera, carpet mats, rear side window blinds.   Jaguar would say you can have a XF for £34K  but if you want a decent set of extras then give us £45K please.  

Therefore the point about options on other makes being like telephone directories is just what it is, a money making machine if a XF was to be compared to the £49,455 Takumi. Only options  on a Takumi ES are  protection pack, metallic paint, illuminated door tread plates and digital mirrors (Mirrors are £1600)  making the absolute final cost £52,423. If you exclude the ES options then a Takumi is £49,455, some £4,455 more than a XF Jaguar with all the options listed.     Given the ES is a hybrid with Lexus's bullet proof reliability, build quality  and significantly better fuel economy I know I would only ever buy a Lexus  having had  4 pre owned Jaguars, one of which was a XE,  AWD model which I got rid of after 6 weeks. The interior build quality was appalling on close examination and all 4 Jaguars had at least 2 warranty claims each.   (X Type, XK, XJ and XE)

Warranty claims on a Lexus?  unheard of I would say.

I would just pay the extra for a Takumi ES and have trouble free no hassle motoring with all of the electric driving benefits. 

My new ES Premium Edition which I am expecting in January will not disappoint, I just know it won't if my last ES is anything to go by.  

[paulrnx]

2 hours ago, First_Lexus said:

I’ve got a former colleague who works for JLR. He says they only keep their company cars for 3-6 months as if they keep them for any longer they tend to break…😆

They also tell a joke amongst themselves. 

“What are the only two man made things visible from space? 

1. the Great Wall of China

2. the panel gaps on a JLR product…”

I’ve owned four Jaguars. Had one case where one of them let me down on one occasion. 80k miles and five years of driving Jaguars. A bit more than 3-6 months. Owning a Lexus is all about the ownership experience and reliability. Owning a Jaguar is all about how they drive and how they breathe over the road surface with impeccable toad manners and enjoyment. Depends what is important I suppose.

[paulrnx]

road not toad 😀

[rayaans]

Got rid of it after 6 months

Drives so well - sounds amazing. Breaks down every month. Lets just say it cost me in excess of £2k just in multiple repairs which werent covered under warranty and left me stranded after a 12 hour night shift in A&E. The interior quality was poor for what was a £47k car and the paint was peeling off behind the wheels. The panel gaps were OK to be fair but ended up buying a car with my heart and regretted it badly

[SH20]

It looks a fine version of the XE but can you believe I went from the 5.0 litre LS460 SE-L to a Jaguar XE R Type  AWD 2.0 litre diesel.   Like you say the interior was poor and so not like the XK and XJ   I once owned.   Got rid the XE after 6 weeks because of the interior which sqeeked and rattled non stop.  I then  bought my first Lexus hybrid,  a GS450h  which was so nice  which LED to my first ES300h in 2019.  

Had Jaguar launched the XE with the current interior of the latest XE model range I probably might have kept it.  Jaguar realised very quickly the original XE interior was just bad and then created the much improved interior we see today.   

Although it never let me down apart from 2 warranty issues the XE only ever really looked a great car but ownership was something else.

I just wished looking back that I had bought a 2008 Lexus  LS600hl   with the relaxation pack but because of unfounded concerns about hybrid batteries I bottled out and went for the LS460 the best car I ever owned.  

 

[Guest]

I wanted reliability, comfort, good economy with a high spec (android auto and mark levinson are very much appreciated). The IS provided reliability and economy but was lacking in spec, I bought the IS when I retired for the second time as a long term car but never felt completely satisfied with it, however I went back to work for a bit meaning I have just retired for the third time, so I have bitten the bullet and gone for the ES which will definitely be a long term purchase.

I like jags but I don’t think a petrol XF would compare with the ES for economy and reliability and I now have the spec which covers everything 

[rayaans]

1 hour ago, SH20 said:

It looks a fine version of the XE but can you believe I went from the 5.0 litre LS460 SE-L to a Jaguar XE R Type  AWD 2.0 litre diesel.   Like you say the interior was poor and so not like the XK and XJ   I once owned.   Got rid the XE after 6 weeks because of the interior which sqeeked and rattled non stop.  I then  bought my first Lexus hybrid,  a GS450h  which was so nice  which led to my first ES300h in 2019.  

Had Jaguar launched the XE with the current interior of the latest XE model range I probably might have kept it.  Jaguar realised very quickly the original XE interior was just bad and then created the much improved interior we see today.   

Although it never let me down apart from 2 warranty issues the XE only ever really looked a great car but ownership was something else.

I just wished looking back that I had bought a 2008 Lexus  LS600hl   with the relaxation pack but because of unfounded concerns about hybrid batteries I bottled out and went for the LS460 the best car I ever owned.  

 

I did look at the newer XE with the facelifted interior. The problem is that the panels are still made of that horrible plastic which feels really hollow. It could have been a brilliant car but theres too many shortcomings - swapped it for a Merc C200 of the same year and its worlds apart. Still have the two Lexus too and to be honest, whilst the Merc is good, it doesnt give the same feeling of solidity as the Lexus vehicles Ive had

[Tonyw]

My XF r sport black is for sale before the ES arrives.

perfect car, rare colour (only 100 in kyanite made) never had a problem and being the older one it has in my opinion the nicer interior. I will miss the 825W meridian surround sound.

before anyone asks, it is 6 years old so will be expensive when it breaks, so thought I would move on whilst the second hand car market is stupid (my Lexus dealer has offered £12k which is about £4K more than what it was worth pre pandemic) 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Tonyw said:

My XF r sport black is for sale before the ES arrives.

perfect car, rare colour (only 100 in kyanite made) never had a problem and being the older one it has in my opinion the nicer interior. I will miss the 825W meridian surround sound.

before anyone asks, it is 6 years old so will be expensive when it breaks, so thought I would move on whilst the second hand car market is stupid (my Lexus dealer has offered £12k which is about £4K more than what it was worth pre pandemic) 

Never heard the Meridian system but I had the Harmon Kardon system in a previous BMW which was very good, don’t know which ES you are waiting for but the Mark Levinson in mine is fantastic 

[Tonyw]

2 hours ago, Derant said:

Never heard the Meridian system but I had the Harmon Kardon system in a previous BMW which was very good, don’t know which ES you are waiting for but the Mark Levinson in mine is fantastic 

Unfortunately I couldn’t justify the luxury tax bill on a £40k+ car so mine is premium with the pioneer. The meridian is probably best I have heard 18 speakers in total. Bear in mind meridian themselves set up and tune the system and includes their processor as well, not like the b&o or Bose of the shelf speakers used in my previous Audi and Mazda  I have heard that the mark levinson and the Mercedes’ burmeister are both pretty similar as well. I have visited the meridian factory a few times and their attention to detail on home systems is amazing. 

my mileage has dropped since covid and working from home, so I have gone from 500 miles a week to barely 500 a month so sitting in a car listening to my music isn’t as important as it was before

[rayaans]

18 hours ago, Tonyw said:

Unfortunately I couldn’t justify the luxury tax bill on a £40k+ car so mine is premium with the pioneer. The meridian is probably best I have heard 18 speakers in total. Bear in mind meridian themselves set up and tune the system and includes their processor as well, not like the b&o or Bose of the shelf speakers used in my previous Audi and Mazda  I have heard that the mark levinson and the Mercedes’ burmeister are both pretty similar as well. I have visited the meridian factory a few times and their attention to detail on home systems is amazing. 

my mileage has dropped since covid and working from home, so I have gone from 500 miles a week to barely 500 a month so sitting in a car listening to my music isn’t as important as it was before

Youll have a pioneer system which is pretty good for a "standard" system

The Jaguar XE Meridian system was average at best in my opinion. No better than the C class standard system in my latest car. The Mark Levinson is very good - its more tuned towards audiophiles so not overly bass heavy but the clarity is unrivalled. 

[Tonyw]

53 minutes ago, rayaans said:

Youll have a pioneer system which is pretty good for a "standard" system

The Jaguar XE Meridian system was average at best in my opinion. No better than the C class standard system in my latest car. The Mark Levinson is very good - its more tuned towards audiophiles so not overly bass heavy but the clarity is unrivalled. 

Yes, my son had just swapped his XE for a new Tesla 3 and he had the standard fit Meridian, half as much power, no DSP and no centre speaker. The upgraded system in mine was part of the Black model upgrades and like the ML it was tuned for music not just a big pumping sub. Which is what I am hearing about the pioneer.

[rayaans]

40 minutes ago, Tonyw said:

Yes, my son had just swapped his XE for a new Tesla 3 and he had the standard fit Meridian, half as much power, no DSP and no centre speaker. The upgraded system in mine was part of the Black model upgrades and like the ML it was tuned for music not just a big pumping sub. Which is what I am hearing about the pioneer.

I wouldnt worry too much

The Pioneer systems are pretty good anyway. My current RX and UX have the pioneer systems and they are perfectly fine. Its better than the C class standard system and better than the Meridian on the XE. 

[Mincey]

10 minutes ago, rayaans said:

I wouldnt worry too much

The Pioneer systems are pretty good anyway. My current RX and UX have the pioneer systems and they are perfectly fine. Its better than the C class standard system and better than the Meridian on the XE. 

I need to experience ML again. I had it in my IS250, then the premium system in my IS300h. I remember a difference there, but I find the standard system in Betsy is more than good enough for my needs, and I can be quite fussy. Trouble is, if I ask for a demo next time I take Betsy in for a service, they'll probably expect me to buy the other car.

[STE041]

6 hours ago, Mincey said:

I need to experience ML again. I had it in my IS250, then the premium system in my IS300h. I remember a difference there, but I find the standard system in Betsy is more than good enough for my needs, and I can be quite fussy. Trouble is, if I ask for a demo next time I take Betsy in for a service, they'll probably expect me to buy the other car.

Last year I took my MY19 69 plate ES300h F Sport with Takumi pack in for an apple car play upgrade. Within months they cut me a deal to upgrade to the same spec and model on a 21 plate (MY21) which cost no additional. I think they were after the 69 plate as there was a shortage of new cars and mine had less than 10k on the clock when doing the deal. Thing is now, I don’t like the MY22 if I get another decent deal - the dash looks unfinished to me and I don’t like the new lights which is a shame. In both ES’s I’ve had the ML sounds having test drove a base model - the ML system is hard to beat but to get good results you’ll need to wind it up a bit and have a high def source of music. I use Tidal and apple TV - anything by Hams Zimmer (Live), all the way to The Who - Pinball Wizard thru to London Grammar - Strong with volume set at 40 really shows the ML sounds up compared to other brands.

[rayaans]

9 hours ago, STE041 said:

Last year I took my MY19 69 plate ES300h F Sport with Takumi pack in for an Apple car play upgrade. Within months they cut me a deal to upgrade to the same spec and model on a 21 plate (MY21) which cost no additional. I think they were after the 69 plate as there was a shortage of new cars and mine had less than 10k on the clock when doing the deal. Thing is now, I don’t like the MY22 if I get another decent deal - the dash looks unfinished to me and I don’t like the new lights which is a shame. In both ES’s I’ve had the ML sounds having test drove a base model - the ML system is hard to beat but to get good results you’ll need to wind it up a bit and have a high def source of music. I use Tidal and Apple TV - anything by Hams Zimmer (Live), all the way to The Who - Pinball Wizard thru to London Grammar - Strong with volume set at 40 really shows the ML sounds up compared to other brands.

You'll probably find if using usb you won't have to turn the volume up as much

That's been my experience in all Lexus so far.

[Ian J. Parsley]

On the OP, I obviously was much more charmed with by IS than you were, as I really liked mine. Then I came to an ES via an NX (which I wasn't so keen on only because SUVs really aren't for me). I'd safely say you'll not be disappointed. The ES is a surprisingly easy car to drive given its size, maxes out in comfort, and for a front-wheel hybrid really doesn't drive badly at all.

[Guest]

18 hours ago, Ian J. Parsley said:

On the OP, I obviously was much more charmed with by IS than you were, as I really liked mine. Then I came to an ES via an NX (which I wasn't so keen on only because SUVs really aren't for me). I'd safely say you'll not be disappointed. The ES is a surprisingly easy car to drive given its size, maxes out in comfort, and for a front-wheel hybrid really doesn't drive badly at all.

I don’t know what it was with the IS, it was faultless really but I never warmed to it, the infotainment always disappointed me (mirrorlink, what a waste of time) but you are correct regarding the ES, done over a 1000 miles in it now and really happy I have made the change, the comfort is on a different level, it is easy to drive and I find parking it far easier than my IS. Just done a round trip between Stamford and Derby via A1 and A52 and got 54mpg, very happy, front wheel drive? I have never given it a second thought.