Today I'll mainly be moaning about ...

[dutchie01]

52 minutes ago, doog442 said:

 The Netherlands on the whole has it right (the earlier video aside) when they decided in the 50's I believe to incorporate cycle lanes into every new town / street plan, perhaps dutchie can clarify.

 

 

[doog442]

25 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

 

Many thanks dutchie..70's not 50's my bad. I recall the car free sundays when In Germany. Quite a few similarities to the UK as we go through this 'transition'. The major difference appears that you had far greater public support for change than is being demonstrated here in the UK (which is a massive shame) and probably a culture thing.  

[Phil xxkr]

16 hours ago, Bluemarlin said:

I agree Doog, it's a shame that there isn't better cycling infrastructure in the UK, for the benefit of all road users.

By road cyclists, I assume you mean those who tend to ride competitively on the roads, but it seems that they tend not to use any cycling specific infrastucture, even when it is available.

I can understand the desire to ride competitively, and the frustration at not having sufficient facilities to do so, but to use public roads as an alternative is simply dangerous. Clocking your fastest time for a route, and riding as safely as possible, are mutually exclusive. As such, some of the conflict comes from drivers feeling that they're being blamed for all cyclists problems, when clearly there are some groups of cyclists who put their competitive urges ahead of their safety. As a cyclist I feel a lot safer in a bike lane, and as a motorist I'd be more than happy with more bike lanes built, if bikes were compelled to stick to them.

From a motorist's perspective, I have no problem with an old guy on his shopping bike holding me up, it is what it is. Safety is enhanced by predictability, and he's predictable. However, a flock of road racers isn't. They can loom up from behind in slower moving traffic, on both sides of the car, giving you little idea or warning of who's going  to pass, and on what side, as you politely try to manoeuvre and give them space. They're no better when they're in front of you, as they randomly switch from two to three abreast, or one of them darts out of the pack to switch lead.

I'm all in favour of doing whatever it takes to make cycling safer for the average cyclist, but it's time to acknowledge that their are two distinctly different types of cyclist. Those who ride as a means of transport, and those who ride as a competitive sport. The former should be accomodated as much as possible, and the latter restricted to dedicated facilities.

Spot on 👍

[steve2006]

New moan....sale promotions with “up to” 50/60/70% off, the ones you see in big bold bright colours with the “up to” in a significantly smaller font and blended colour.

I’ve often thought about walking into one of these shops and asking to see the full range of goods with the maximum discount applied.

[Bluemarlin]

On 1/21/2022 at 8:41 PM, doog442 said:

Many thanks dutchie..70's not 50's my bad. I recall the car free sundays when In Germany. Quite a few similarities to the UK as we go through this 'transition'. The major difference appears that you had far greater public support for change than is being demonstrated here in the UK (which is a massive shame) and probably a culture thing.  

Maybe it's the lack of hills that makes cycling more popular in the Netherlands😉

Seriously though, one noticable cultural difference in the UK is that around 80% of regular cyclists are male, whereas I suspect a more even split in the Netherlands. Anecdotally (speaking to female friends and listening to a program on Radio 4) it seems that women don't feel safe cycling, especially in cities, and are less confident on public roads, which I can understand. Also, given that many cyclists are also motorists, I imagine there's an element of split loyalties/priorities too.

Some of the resistance is clearly knee jerk too, as there are many cases where defined cycle lanes benefit motorists as much as cyclists, so I think the government could do a better job of selling the benefits to all road users.

But yes, culture's a funny thing. I'm surprised cycling isn't more popular in the USA, as in many towns I've visited there are miles and miles of virtually unused pavements, as nobody walks anywhere.

[Malc]

Bill, gender equality please .............  males, females and ?????

bit like actors and actresses ............  boys, girls and whatever else one might identify with ....  cyclists the same no doubt 

Malc

[First_Lexus]

3 hours ago, Bluemarlin said:

Maybe it's the lack of hills that makes cycling more popular in the Netherlands😉

Seriously though, one noticable cultural difference in the UK is that around 80% of regular cyclists are male, whereas I suspect a more even split in the Netherlands. Anecdotally (speaking to female friends and listening to a program on Radio 4) it seems that women don't feel safe cycling, especially in cities, and are less confident on public roads, which I can understand. Also, given that many cyclists are also motorists, I imagine there's an element of split loyalties/priorities too.

Some of the resistance is clearly knee jerk too, as there are many cases where defined cycle lanes benefit motorists as much as cyclists, so I think the government could do a better job of selling the benefits to all road users.

But yes, culture's a funny thing. I'm surprised cycling isn't more popular in the USA, as in many towns I've visited there are miles and miles of virtually unused pavements, as nobody walks anywhere.

Anecdotally I do wonder whether culturally (in the UK) cycling was seen as ‘working class’ or for ‘poorer people’ if you go back to the 1920s, 30s, 50s etc.

Certainly when I was growing up cycling (well, bicycling as it was called then) wasn’t popular at all. Obviously the local Police Constable rode around on a bike, but he (and it WAS a ‘he’ at that stage) wasn’t typical in my experience which I accept was growing up in Buckinghamshire.

Britain has had a love affair with the motor car and motorcycle for generations. Owning a motor vehicle has long been a sign of affluence. I don’t really remember cycling being popular - and even then mainly for health reasons - until the 1990s. 

[Bluemarlin]

1 hour ago, Malc said:

Bill, gender equality please .............  males, females and ?????

bit like actors and actresses ............  boys, girls and whatever else one might identify with ....  cyclists the same no doubt 

Malc

I kept to s*x rather gender terms, so I think it's still just males and females. Granted, one could have a male woman or a female man.

Perhaps though it would have been easier if I'd said those who ride bikes with crossbars and those who don't😉

[steve2006]

I wish I’d rode a bike without a crossbar on a few occasions when my foot slipped off the pedal, still causes me pain just thinking about it 😀

[Bluemarlin]

1 hour ago, First_Lexus said:

Anecdotally I do wonder whether culturally (in the UK) cycling was seen as ‘working class’ or for ‘poorer people’ if you go back to the 1920s, 30s, 50s etc.

Certainly when I was growing up cycling (well, bicycling as it was called then) wasn’t popular at all. Obviously the local Police Constable rode around on a bike, but he (and it WAS a ‘he’ at that stage) wasn’t typical in my experience which I accept was growing up in Buckinghamshire.

Britain has had a love affair with the motor car and motorcycle for generations. Owning a motor vehicle has long been a sign of affluence. I don’t really remember cycling being popular - and even then mainly for health reasons - until the 1990s. 

I'm sure there's truth to the working class thing Ed. I remember seeing old black and white clips of cyclists pouring out of factories at knocking off time. Likewise the policeman on his bike, but lets not forget the midwife on her bike too.

Interestingly, in the 1930's, there was stong opposition to cycle paths, not from motorists, but from cycling bodies. Here's a 1934 letter from the club secretary of the Cyclists Touring Club:

"The demand for separate tracks for cyclists is part of the campaign of motorists to appropriate public highways for their exclusive use. Have we yet got to accept a condition of affairs when cyclists have to renounce their use of the roads to escape annihiliation? If motorists do not wish to conform to a standard of conduct on public highways compatible with the safety of all other users, then it is they and not cyclists who should abandon the use of the highway, the main cost of which is borne by ratepayers. There is nothing to prevent motorists from building at their own expense private roads where they can indulge their craze for speed without let or hindrance."

To that end, cycling groups were strong supporters of motorway building as a means of removing speeding cars from smaller roads.

Much like today then, some of the arguments, on both sides, hide territorialist resentments behind a smokescreen of safety concerns.

[Moleman]

42 minutes ago, Bluemarlin said:

Have we yet got to accept a condition of affairs when cyclists have to renounce their use of the roads to escape annihiliation? If motorists do not wish to conform to a standard of conduct on public highways compatible with the safety of all other users, then it is they and not cyclists who should abandon the use of the highway,

Much like today then, some of the arguments, on both sides, hide territorialist resentments behind a smokescreen of safety concerns.

And nothing seems to have changed since then!

[doog442]

56 minutes ago, Bluemarlin said:

I'm sure there's truth to the working class thing Ed. I remember seeing old black and white clips of cyclists pouring out of factories at knocking off time. Likewise the policeman on his bike, but lets not forget the midwife on her bike too.

Interestingly, in the 1930's, there was stong opposition to cycle paths, not from motorists, but from cycling bodies. Here's a 1934 letter from the club secretary of the Cyclists Touring Club:

"The demand for separate tracks for cyclists is part of the campaign of motorists to appropriate public highways for their exclusive use. Have we yet got to accept a condition of affairs when cyclists have to renounce their use of the roads to escape annihiliation? If motorists do not wish to conform to a standard of conduct on public highways compatible with the safety of all other users, then it is they and not cyclists who should abandon the use of the highway, the main cost of which is borne by ratepayers. There is nothing to prevent motorists from building at their own expense private roads where they can indulge their craze for speed without let or hindrance."

To that end, cycling groups were strong supporters of motorway building as a means of removing speeding cars from smaller roads.

Much like today then, some of the arguments, on both sides, hide territorialist resentments behind a smokescreen of safety concerns.

I was a member of CTC for many years  (it might explain ' my problem' ) 

Now known as Cycling UK  https://forum.cyclinguk.org/index.php

Still a very good forum and resource for cyclists to which I regularly contribute. 

[Phil xxkr]

Overly long responses when a simple response would do for example, Sed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium doloremque laudantium, totam rem aperiam eaque ipsa, quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt, explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem, quia voluptas sit, aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos, qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt, neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum, quia dolor sit, amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt, ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit, qui in ea voluptate velit esse, quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum, qui dolorem eum fugiat, quo voluptas nulla pariatur? [33] At vero eos et accusamus et iusto odio dignissimos ducimus, qui blanditiis praesentium voluptatum deleniti atque corrupti, quos dolores et quas molestias excepturi sint, obcaecati cupiditate non provident, similique sunt in culpa, qui officia deserunt mollitia animi, id est laborum et dolorum fuga. Et harum quidem rerum facilis est et expedita distinctio. Nam libero tempore, cum soluta nobis est eligendi optio, cumque nihil impedit, quo minus id, quod maxime placeat, facere possimus, omnis voluptas assumenda est, omnis dolor repellendus. Temporibus autem quibusdam et aut officiis debitis aut rerum necessitatibus saepe eveniet, ut et voluptates repudiandae sint et molestiae non recusandae. Itaque earum rerum hic tenetur a sapiente delectus, ut aut reiciendis voluptatibus maiores alias consequatur aut perferendis doloribus asperiores repellat. See what I mean 😂

[Mincey]

1 minute ago, Phil xxkr said:

Overly long responses when a simple response would do for example, Sed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium doloremque laudantium, totam rem aperiam eaque ipsa, quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt, explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem, quia voluptas sit, aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos, qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt, neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum, quia dolor sit, amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt, ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit, qui in ea voluptate velit esse, quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum, qui dolorem eum fugiat, quo voluptas nulla pariatur? [33] At vero eos et accusamus et iusto odio dignissimos ducimus, qui blanditiis praesentium voluptatum deleniti atque corrupti, quos dolores et quas molestias excepturi sint, obcaecati cupiditate non provident, similique sunt in culpa, qui officia deserunt mollitia animi, id est laborum et dolorum fuga. Et harum quidem rerum facilis est et expedita distinctio. Nam libero tempore, cum soluta nobis est eligendi optio, cumque nihil impedit, quo minus id, quod maxime placeat, facere possimus, omnis voluptas assumenda est, omnis dolor repellendus. Temporibus autem quibusdam et aut officiis debitis aut rerum necessitatibus saepe eveniet, ut et voluptates repudiandae sint et molestiae non recusandae. Itaque earum rerum hic tenetur a sapiente delectus, ut aut reiciendis voluptatibus maiores alias consequatur aut perferendis doloribus asperiores repellat. See what I mean 😂

I've been pulled up for that exact thing in the past. Can't imagine why for a minute...

[Malc]

25 minutes ago, Phil xxkr said:

See what I mean 😂

reckon it's a load of bol--cks tbh 

Malc

there was a Latin dictionary for sale in the local charity shop the other day ........  almost bought it but then remembered I still had mine from long back schooldays .........  failed Latin O Level grade 9 btw          maybe 56 years ago ..  hahahaha ..  such a useless language I thought then ...........  and now too

[Phil xxkr]

53 minutes ago, Malc said:

reckon it's a load of bol--cks tbh 

Malc

there was a Latin dictionary for sale in the local charity shop the other day ........  almost bought it but then remembered I still had mine from long back schooldays .........  failed Latin O Level grade 9 btw          maybe 56 years ago ..  hahahaha ..  such a useless language I thought then ...........  and now too

Such a shame Malc otherwise you may have recognised lorem ipsus 😎. And of course "useless language" are both words with Latin roots, I won't comment on hoisted and petard😅

[Phil xxkr]

On 11/11/2021 at 11:03 AM, PCM said:

Drivers and cyclists... who don't indicate!

Especially when they are turning left at a roundabout...

Well wait until Saturday Piers when the new advisories come in, the more I learn about it the more it seems like utter madness😱. I see a big uptick in sales of headcams and deliberate provocative acts. 

[Moleman]

5 minutes ago, Phil xxkr said:

 I see a big uptick in sales of headcams and deliberate provocative acts. 

Absolutely. ☺️

[Mincey]

6 minutes ago, Moleman said:

Absolutely. ☺️

And rear end shunts!

[NemesisUK]

17 minutes ago, Mincey said:

And rear end shunts!

Oooh, Matron!

 

[First_Lexus]

1 hour ago, Phil xxkr said:

Such a shame Malc otherwise you may have recognised lorem ipsus 😎. And of course "useless language" are both words with Latin roots, I won't comment on hoisted and petard😅

Latin was mandatory at school for me from age 5.

Has it helped me in any way? I think from a general knowledge perspective it comes in handy from time to time. I hated it at the time (hopeless at languages), but look back rather more fondly now. Ancient Greek on the other hand…

When my Upper School stopped Latin being a mandatory subject (after I had left I should add) it actually made the front page of the Daily Telegraph. Shocking…but different times!

A new moan for me on an old theme. The insistence that schooling should be about ‘training’ for a future career rather than for ‘education’ for its own sake. We all have long enough in a career without having to specialise when we should simply be enjoying learning new things just because we can.

I feel increasingly like a dinosaur. What’s that bright light in the sky…😬

[Las Palmas]

SARS-COV-2

We have been staying home for 2 weeks now as our little one probably got infected in school. Discovered it by accident as none of us have any symptoms and are in no way ill. Need negative test but cannot get appointment to be tested as they will not let us into the place where we can get the appointment.

Will stay home a week more and try again.

Sure, some countries are easier than other.

[Phil xxkr]

1 hour ago, First_Lexus said:

Latin was mandatory at school for me from age 5.

Has it helped me in any way? I think from a general knowledge perspective it comes in handy from time to time. I hated it at the time (hopeless at languages), but look back rather more fondly now. Ancient Greek on the other hand…

When my Upper School stopped Latin being a mandatory subject (after I had left I should add) it actually made the front page of the Daily Telegraph. Shocking…but different times!

A new moan for me on an old theme. The insistence that schooling should be about ‘training’ for a future career rather than for ‘education’ for its own sake. We all have long enough in a career without having to specialise when we should simply be enjoying learning new things just because we can.

I feel increasingly like a dinosaur. What’s that bright light in the sky…😬

You raise such interesting points Ed. Firstly, Latin and Greek are cornerstones of the English language so lots of people already know lots of words albeit not the grammar 😱. Vocational training doesn't seem such a bad idea, rather that than a degree in pantomime performance!. At least they are learning and who knows it may encourage curiosity and from there there is no end. As to dinosaurs well, their progeny are still here so making them one of the most successful species ever 👍

[Phil xxkr]

9 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

SARS-COV-2

We have been staying home for 2 weeks now as our little one probably got infected in school. Discovered it by accident as none of us have any symptoms and are in no way ill. Need negative test but cannot get appointment to be tested as they will not let us into the place where we can get the appointment.

Will stay home a week more and try again.

Sure, some countries are easier than other.

How about at the airport John? 

[Malc]

3 hours ago, Phil xxkr said:

hoisted and petard

as I say ........  a load of  bo--ll-cks quite frankly 

whoever could possibly imagine that either Latin or ancient Greek have any use whatsoever in this day and age really must be a dinosaur .......... the world's moved on ........  well, unless one's a specific type of scholar or tutor at some renowned university or other and needing the set skills to teach those other " dinosaurs" emerging into the modern world ...  the modern world we have and are in and whether we like it or not, the set language is whatsapp type speak with abbreviations and a lingo quite frankly I even have trouble comprehending when the grandkids send me stuff ..........  messages that is !

our world has moved on ..  get a grip .......

Malc