Tyres - Are Your Choices Rational?

[Las Palmas]

I have been driving many places in many cars. From Denmark to Turkey on the way to the far east, but returned due to car broke down and no place to repair. From Germany to Algiers touring Sahara and returning with tyres almost slicks to Trondheim up and down mountains and in snowstorm in an old VW Beetle bought cheap in Germany.

Yes, have been lucky.

Later been driving long distance – North Europe, Italy, Spain, Africa visiting family. Family spread to many countries.

Do I consider myself an expert in tyres: No.

Never bought low quality tyres, always quality Continental. May be more expensive, but mostly I consider that you get what you pay for. If something is too good (or cheap) to be true, then that is what it is. May be wrong. Have been that before.

The CT is the first car I consider buying something else. Looking for the best summer tyre 215/45-17. Low noise is the one quality regarded highest for the first time.

May end up buying Continental again, though I want low noise as first and durability second quality.

[Ala Larj]

I stick with what the car came with. They may not be the best ‘on the limit’, or the best in the wet or dry but my decision is rational. The ones I chose seem to last long enough and I’ve never lost grip rain or shine. They are quiet and give a comfortable ride. What more do I want from a tyre? Therefore my choice in tyres is exceptionally rational!

[Phil xxkr]

13 hours ago, First_Lexus said:

But I am rational, it’s everybody else who is the problem…😉

People who lean on logic and philosophy and rational exposition end by starving the best part of the mind, William B Yates 

[Mincey]

19 hours ago, Mincey said:

I used to have Bridgestones on my IS200's and IS250 as I was a massive Ferrari F1 fan and wanted to be on the same rubber as Michael Schumacher. 

EDIT: I haven't even checked what make she's currently wearing.

Betsy's on Bridgetones!

[Rabbers]

8 minutes ago, Phil xxkr said:

People who lean on logic and philosophy and rational exposition end by starving the best part of the mind, William B Yates 

I honestly don’t know, Phil, how much thought Yates devoted to tyres but I would imagine that, if faced with the choice, he would have nourished his mind by eschewing Michelin or Continental’s stern practicality in favour of Pirelli’s gentle lyricism.  

[Malc]

14 hours ago, Ala Larj said:

I stick with what the car came with.

some of us don't have that luxury sadly ......... original OEM Dunlop DZ8 was it ? all those decades back ........  when Dunlop actually made this specific tyre for the " new " Lexus flagship 

Malc

[H3XME]

Depends on the application.. Michelin PS4 are definitely one of the best road tyres out there. Excellent grip and hold up good on the track too - bit of an overkill for general road user who doesn't push the car to the limit though. Nankang NS2 is a great budget tyre - perfect on a daily driver in my opinion, cheap and cheerful and I'd put them on the same spot as Landsail but I can't remember the model. I personally only run Toyo Proxes TR1 now. The old T1-R compound was not that good in terms of dry grip, but I suppose they are wet tyres. The new TR1 compound has been amazing. It's grippy enough to give me confidence on slick country lanes, but also lets me get the back end loose when I want it to - it's never unwanted. I use 225/40R18s on my IS250 on all 4 corners and I wouldn't change it, it suits my needs. Tyres are very subjective and they really depend on your driving style. Paying premium for tyres doesn't always mean they're better and the tyres are only as good as your hands / foot coordination - to an extent. I don't think this should matter to luxury Lexus owners, but for example in my GT86, the stock Michelin Primacy tyres were AWFUL (despite being a good brand). Some call them dangerous, but the best thing to do is to drive, drive and drive until you learn the limit of your tyres. If you always drive to the limit of your tyres, you'll never exit the road in an unwanted manner. 

[-Error-]

3 hours ago, Mincey said:

Betsy's on Bridgetones!

Potenza?

Bridgestone have been a long time Lexus supplier, so it is no surprise there!

10 minutes ago, H3XME said:

 the stock Michelin Primacy tyres were AWFUL (despite being a good brand). [...] If you always drive to the limit of your tyres, you'll never exit the road in an unwanted manner. 

I may have learned that very thing from autopsy - GT86, cold primacy's, roundabout, kerb.

[H3XME]

2 minutes ago, -Error- said:

I may have learned that very thing from autopsy - GT86, cold primacy's, roundabout, kerb.

I never had a near death experience on Primacy's, but I've always been very aware of their capabilities. Or lack of.. They were great for skidding around and having fun, but I learnt not to push them past their limits. Gradually over time I started driving as fast as the tyres would physically let me. That's when I stepped it up a notch and went up to better tyres. The car felt so much faster thanks to the additional grip. Good times. Driving fast is a learning experience that takes a long time. People tend to jump in the car and expect it to just stick to the road, but that's when accidents happen.

[Mincey]

1 hour ago, -Error- said:

Potenza?

Bang on.

[Las Palmas]

Different cars, different needs for tyres.

Different drivers, different skills, different preferences, different countries. Canada / North Scandinavia – South Italy / Spain. Same tyres?

A CT is for comfort and does not need super tyres for anything but comfort and durability.

A GT86 is a different thing and though I have never been in one I had a new Supra 3L which was a no-good piece of s**t. Same year in a MR2 with about half the power, Toyota had a sports car. The Supra had power enough to be a funny car but handling was so loose and imprecise that it was right out - no good.

A Lancia Delta EVO need tyres for off-road with big knobs if used for rally (think we had Goodrich on the one we had), noisy and no good on paved roads, but if the car is to be used for streets, I doubt nothing would fit the car better than what Continental make. But who would buy a Delta EVO or Peugeot Turbo 16 EVO or Renault Turbo 1 for driving on streets and daily use? Not me.

A MB 300SEL 6.3 is good for all kind of roads and with Continental (standard from factory) no problem with unpaved mountain trails or smooth German Autobahn.

A Lexus V8 will not be possible to drive to the limits with same tyres as the most comfortable tyres for a CT.

What is good for one is far from that for another. Car and driver.

So, are we choosing what is rational for our cars and driving style?

Anybody can answer that?

[LenT]

1 hour ago, H3XME said:

They were great for skidding around and having fun, but I learnt not to push them past their limits. Gradually over time I started driving as fast as the tyres would physically let me. 

Just curious, Lucas.

As a general rule, the only way of determining the limits of anything is by exceeding them.  So was your learning process done on the relative safety of a track?

I also can’t help feeling that “driving as fast as the tyres would physically let me” doesn’t leave much room for error or a sudden change of circumstances eg road surface, motorists, pedestrians, animals and all the other impedimenta that I often encounter.

Or is it just me?

[H3XME]

22 minutes ago, LenT said:

Just curious, Lucas.

As a general rule, the only way of determining the limits of anything is by exceeding them.  So was your learning process done on the relative safety of a track?

I also can’t help feeling that “driving as fast as the tyres would physically let me” doesn’t leave much room for error or a sudden change of circumstances eg road surface, motorists, pedestrians, animals and all the other impedimenta that I often encounter.

Or is it just me?

Track & well known B road experience. You know when the car is pulling away when you go too fast, you don't push past it. 

It doesn't leave room for error at all, it's just one of those things.. if you allow room for error, you're being reserved and not pushing hard enough. Anyway, this is a conversation for another day. Going back to the topic. Tyres, it really depends on what car you have and how you drive as John mentioned above. The tyres I'm using are great on the 86 for my driving. I have the same ones on the IS250 and they don't perform as well under the same conditions & driving, but it's a different car with more weight, less power, different centre of gravity. This is now comparing apples and oranges though. Bottom line, different cars will benefit from different tyres, but driving style has A LOT to do with it. 

[Phil xxkr]

4 hours ago, Rabbers said:

I honestly don’t know, Phil, how much thought Yates devoted to tyres but I would imagine that, if faced with the choice, he would have nourished his mind by eschewing Michelin or Continental’s stern practicality in favour of Pirelli’s gentle lyricism.  

He did 😊

WHO will go drive with Fergus now,
And pierce the deep wood's woven shade,
And dance upon the level shore?
Young man, lift up your russet brow,
And lift your tender eyelids, maid,
And brood on hopes and fear no more.
And no more turn aside and brood
Upon love's bitter mystery;
For Fergus rules the brazen cars,
And rules the shadows of the wood,
And the white breast of the dim sea
And all dishevelled wandering stars.

[Mincey]

21 hours ago, Phil xxkr said:

He did 😊

WHO will go drive with Fergus now,
And pierce the deep wood's woven shade,
And dance upon the level shore?
Young man, lift up your russet brow,
And lift your tender eyelids, maid,
And brood on hopes and fear no more.
And no more turn aside and brood
Upon love's bitter mystery;
For Fergus rules the brazen cars,
And rules the shadows of the wood,
And the white breast of the dim sea
And all dishevelled wandering stars.

I thought Fergus sang the blues?

[Phil xxkr]

1 hour ago, Mincey said:

I thought Fergus sang the blues?

Nooooooo! It's the best tractor imaginable 😂