Tyres - Are Your Choices Rational?

[Rabbers]

As far as I know or can tell, any LOC member posting on the subject of tyres is an expert, so I hope they won't consider it tactless of me to suggest that the subject, like  wine or craft-beers or cheeses etc., tempts people to pontificate with so little justification that they inevitably come across as bores.  I, for example, have for many years favoured Michelin or Pirelli over other premium tyre brands without really knowing or recalling or being credibly able to explain why.  Maybe I originally fell prey to an advertising campaign or admired a salesman's spiel, maybe they helped me to narrowly avoid a motorway pile-up or to stay straight after a high-speed blow-out, or perhaps I drove many happy km on one or another of them with my first girlfriend in the passenger seat.  All I know is that if I were to blind-test alternative brands on my car every day for a week with, let's say, Goodyear, Bridgestone, Conti, Dunlop and Yokohama added to my first two preferences, I would almost certainly be unable to tell them apart.  But, if pressed, I would probably be tempted to offer some sort of opinion anyway - and, although I'd never admit it, feel like a bit of a fraud doing so.

[royoftherovers]

Renato,

We each recommend tyres etc, not because we are experts but because we are comfortable with them for one or a number of reasons ?

[Spacewagon52]

1 hour ago, Rabbers said:

As far as I know or can tell, any LOC member posting on the subject of tyres is an expert, so I hope they won't consider it tactless of me to suggest that the subject, like  wine or craft-beers or cheeses etc., tempts people to pontificate with so little justification that they inevitably come across as bores.  I, for example, have for many years favoured Michelin or Pirelli over other premium tyre brands without really knowing or recalling or being credibly able to explain why.  Maybe I originally fell prey to an advertising campaign or admired a salesman's spiel, maybe they helped me to narrowly avoid a motorway pile-up or to stay straight after a high-speed blow-out, or perhaps I drove many happy km on one or another of them with my first girlfriend in the passenger seat.  All I know is that if I were to blind-test alternative brands on my car every day for a week with, let's say, Goodyear, Bridgestone, Conti, Dunlop and Yokohama added to my first two preferences, I would almost certainly be unable to tell them apart.  But, if pressed, I would probably be tempted to offer some sort of opinion anyway - and, although I'd never admit it, feel like a bit of a fraud doing so.

Unless people claim to be an expert, then I presume they are giving their opinion from experience. Goodyear are a top brand but I would never buy one again. I had a bulge in a fairly new Goodyear tyre that could have cost me my life. It was probably a one-off but I will never buy another one. 

 

"You get what you pay for!" I am not sure this is always true. We make a decision based on safety and finances, in the end it is YOUR decision what tyres you buy. Provided they meet the car manufacturer's specification for that vehicle.

[Mincey]

I used to have Bridgestones on my IS200's and IS250 as I was a massive Ferrari F1 fan and wanted to be on the same rubber as Michael Schumacher. After I grew up, I just had whatever my trusty local tyre shop had in stock in the right size or recommended. Quite what I'll opt for when Betsy needs some new 19" boots is open for debate at the moment. I always fancied some of these as they look cool:

EDIT: I haven't even checked what make she's currently wearing.

[Rabbers]

9 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

… because we are comfortable with them for one or a number of reasons ?

Rational choice, then.  And with the assumption that others will also be comfortable with them.  

[royoftherovers]

1 minute ago, Rabbers said:

Rational choice, then.  And with the assumption that others will also be comfortable with them.  

No assumption assumed Renato. I recommend they decide.

[Las Palmas]

I have used Continental many many years because they always lasted a lot longer than I kept a car and were good in rain and shine.

The CT came with Pirelli, but do not know what will come on when they in a not distant future need to be replaced. Looking for quiet tyres that handles reasonably well (a CT is not a racing machine but has excellent steering, almost as good as a Smart Roadster Coupé, which is a go-kart). Summer tyres are most interesting as rain is as seldom as it is common in UK and snow is something we see on TV.

[royoftherovers]

5 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

I have used Continental many many years because they always lasted a lot longer than I kept a car and were good in rain and shine.

The CT came with Pirelli, but do not know what will come on when they in a not distant future need to be replaced. Looking for quiet tyres that handles reasonably well (a CT is not a racing machine but has excellent steering, almost as good as a Smart Roadster Coupé, which is a go-kart). Summer tyres are most interesting as rain is as seldom as it is common in UK and snow is something we see on TV.

John Snow is retiring soon.

[wharfhouse]

I generally stick with whatever the OEM is for the car. There is IMHO not a lot to choose between the major brands these days. Had quite a few different brands across different cars that were OEM fit and always been happy with them. Since my Lexus dealer is cheaper than any of the tyre centres around us I always go there now and get new OEM ones fitted. I do think that some of the improvement some people feel when they fit a different tyre is down to them being new tyres - they are always quieter and a more complaint ride than the same make of old worn tyres which have perhaps <3mm tread and have hardened somewhat with age. Very difficult to be subjective unless you are swapping like for like tyres based on tread depth and age. As always YMMV.

[Las Palmas]

7 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

John Snow is retiring soon.

You mean we can no longer see snow on TV?

I was living in Trondheim in 1970 something. Bedroom in ground floor. One morning it was not morning -  no light through the windows. We had to go upstairs to get out of the house, through the windows. No more snow?

[Mincey]

1 hour ago, royoftherovers said:

John Snow is retiring soon.

I think the other John was referring to this Snow:
 

 

[Rabbers]

1 hour ago, royoftherovers said:

John Snow is retiring soon.

What has a former England fast bowler got to do with tyres?  Anyway, he retired years ago.

[Las Palmas]

58 minutes ago, Mincey said:

I think the other John was referring to this Snow:
 

 

No! Never saw this before.

The white stuff that was falling from the sky when we were younger. Now it seems to be liquid and not really beautiful like the crystals.

When taking the high road from Oslo to Trondheim there were tall sticks on the sides of the road and as long as you were between them there was a paved road below the snow.

[Rabbers]

33 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

… there were tall sticks on the sides of the road and as long as you were between them there was a paved road below the snow.

They were once quite common even in other less snowy parts of Scandinavia, and one also used to see them on high passes in the Alps.  Apparently there are fewer places with them nowadays because they are considered possibly deceptive, though I always thought them a great help in case of need. 

[First_Lexus]

I always look at the online reviews, the official ratings for wet grip and then factor in price. If I have a good experience I’m happy to recommend the brand concerned and vice versa. I’ve had a couple of bad experiences with Michelin so always avoid those now.

In addition - and this did make a big difference to me - a few years ago I was at a wedding and was on a table with a chap who had worked in marketing for one of the ‘premium’ tyre brands. He told us that as long as we bought something from a brand you’ve heard of, then the ‘mid-range’ brands made most sense as they were often only behind on…price and marketing budget!! Broadly, his view was that the performance difference between most mid-range brands and ‘premium’ brands was minimal, especially in everyday use. His words have stuck with me for years.

I’m very happy to recommend my current Avons, but the Bridgestones I’ve had before have also been good as have Falken. Have I got any technical capability? Nope, I’m an artist rather than a scientist (actually I’m a Theologian and Historian by education, with a bit of Politics and Philosophy thrown in) so am basing everything on reviews and experience to (hopefully) help others decide.

Is such an approach rational? That rather depends on whether you consider my post to be both logical and reasonable…

[Phil xxkr]

8 minutes ago, First_Lexus said:

I always look at the online reviews, the official ratings for wet grip and then factor in price. If I have a good experience I’m happy to recommend the brand concerned and vice versa. I’ve had a couple of bad experiences with Michelin so always avoid those now.

In addition - and this did make a big difference to me - a few years ago I was at a wedding and was on a table with a chap who had worked in marketing for one of the ‘premium’ tyre brands. He told us that as long as we bought something from a brand you’ve heard of, then the ‘mid-range’ brands made most sense as they were often only behind on…price and marketing budget!! Broadly, his view was that the performance difference between most mid-range brands and ‘premium’ brands was minimal, especially in everyday use. His words have stuck with me for years.

I’m very happy to recommend my current Avons, but the Bridgestones I’ve had before have also been good as have Falken. Have I got any technical capability? Nope, I’m an artist rather than a scientist (actually I’m a Theologian and Historian by education, with a bit of Politics and Philosophy thrown in) so am basing everything on reviews and experience to (hopefully) help others decide.

Is such an approach rational? That rather depends on whether you consider my post to be both logical and reasonable…

Doesn't it initially depend on one's definition of rational? 

[First_Lexus]

1 minute ago, Phil xxkr said:

Doesn't it initially depend on one's definition of rational? 

That depends on whether your definition and perception of what is rational…is rational. 😆

[Mr Vlad]

Sorry to say this but there are too many experts on here re tyres. Rational or not rational choice it's just a choice. I've o ly ever bought new tyres twice. Recently the rears on my is250 which I got Bridgestone and in the 80's for one of the Rover cars I had I got a budget set (never again). All other tyres I got were Shock Horror part worn ones. Yes part worn. All from Germany and with a minimum 6mm tread. Never ever had issues with any of them and the brands were either Pirelli 1st choice or Michelin or Bridgestone. Why part worn? Coz it was 25% the price of it if new and with less than 25% wear. Simple. 

[First_Lexus]

6 minutes ago, Mr Vlad said:

Sorry to say this but there are too many experts on here re tyres. Rational or not rational choice it's just a choice. I've o ly ever bought new tyres twice. Recently the rears on my is250 which I got Bridgestone and in the 80's for one of the Rover cars I had I got a budget set (never again). All other tyres I got were Shock Horror part worn ones. Yes part worn. All from Germany and with a minimum 6mm tread. Never ever had issues with any of them and the brands were either Pirelli 1st choice or Michelin or Bridgestone. Why part worn? Coz it was 25% the price of it if new and with less than 25% wear. Simple. 

I’ve seen plenty of posts where members have shared their experiences and opinions, but none that I can recall where anybody has proposed their opinion to be based an any sort of expertise (or expert status). Isn’t opinion what forums are all about - and sharing positive and negative experiences for the potential benefit of others members? If we remove that element, then things will become rather sterile and limited imho.

[dutchie01]

I am not a professional racingdriver, not an automotive journalist like Chris Harris and  i am not sliding around on the local roundabout. I do not drive a 600hp monster that loses traction with a tiny blip of the foot. I do not drive up and down a mountain during a snowstorm and dont take my car out on trackdays. I honestly could not tell you the difference between brand A or brand B when driving. I DO find tyres important though. A small piece of rubber is the only connection between the tarmac and 2000kg fast moving metal. Throughout the years i always read the tyretests, the summertests, wintertest and so on. What always came out was that the Chinese B/C brands had longer stopping distances and worse wet weather capabilities and were just not as good as the A brands. I always take Goodyear/Michelin/Bridgestone/Continental or Pirelli. Nothing else. To save money i buy the tyres on the internet and ask the local garage to install them. 

[Phil xxkr]

34 minutes ago, First_Lexus said:

That depends on whether your definition and perception of what is rational…is rational. 😆

And therefore does that not mean your statement is, in itself, based on being rational? 😎

[Phil xxkr]

2 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

I am not a professional racingdriver, not an automotive journalist like Chris Harris and  i am not sliding around on the local roundabout. I do not drive a 600hp monster that loses traction with a tiny blip of the foot. I do not drive up and down a mountain during a snowstorm and dont take my car out on trackdays. I honestly could not tell you the difference between brand A or brand B when driving. I DO find tyres important though. A small piece of rubber is the only connection between the tarmac and 2000kg fast moving metal. Throughout the years i always read the tyretests, the summertests, wintertest and so on. What always came out was that the Chinese B/C brands had longer stopping distances and worse wet weather capabilities and were just not as good as the A brands. I always take Goodyear/Michelin/Bridgestone/Continental or Pirelli. Nothing else. To save money i buy the tyres on the internet and ask the local garage to install them. 

Lovely to be immersed in first world problems 🤣

[dutchie01]

19 minutes ago, Mr Vlad said:

Sorry to say this but there are too many experts on here re tyres. Rational or not rational choice it's just a choice. I've o ly ever bought new tyres twice. Recently the rears on my is250 which I got Bridgestone and in the 80's for one of the Rover cars I had I got a budget set (never again). All other tyres I got were Shock Horror part worn ones. Yes part worn. All from Germany and with a minimum 6mm tread. Never ever had issues with any of them and the brands were either Pirelli 1st choice or Michelin or Bridgestone. Why part worn? Coz it was 25% the price of it if new and with less than 25% wear. Simple. 

I would never take that risk. Second hand tyres, you never know where they have been, Could well be from a totalled car with broken wheels thus damaged tyrewalls. Could be a nasty surpise when cruising on the highway!

[First_Lexus]

22 minutes ago, Phil xxkr said:

And therefore does that not mean your statement is, in itself, based on being rational? 😎

But I am rational, it’s everybody else who is the problem…😉

[paulrnx]

Surely it’s all about giving opinions, when asked for, based on personal experiences and then people making their own choices based on what they want and what they read.