Potential New owner

[Digga]

We were looking for a replacement for my 13 plate mazda 6.

It needed to be most importantly very reliable and also have a comfortable ride with space for a family of four.

 

The ES seems to tick all the right boxes, I was initially looking at a second hand IS and am now looking at a new ES.

 

I have read a few reported issues on the forum and my travels but this seems rare and appear to be one off's.

We are swaying to the Grey with cream or black interior. I have got price details via carwow for the 300h 2.5 CVT Standard Premium Edition. This seems to be the best bang for buck and the price seems competitive due to the lack of sales because of lead times.

 

Is there any options that are worthy negotiating or worth knowing before taking the plunge? This is my first brand new car and only because the new models are the same price as the second hand or cheaper!

 

[DBIZO]

8 minutes ago, Digga said:

We were looking for a replacement for my 13 plate mazda 6.

It needed to be most importantly very reliable and also have a comfortable ride with space for a family of four.

 

The ES seems to tick all the right boxes, I was initially looking at a second hand IS and am now looking at a new ES.

 

I have read a few reported issues on the forum and my travels but this seems rare and appear to be one off's.

We are swaying to the Grey with cream or black interior. I have got price details via carwow for the 300h 2.5 CVT Standard Premium Edition. This seems to be the best bang for buck and the price seems competitive due to the lack of sales because of lead times.

 

Is there any options that are worthy negotiating or worth knowing before taking the plunge? This is my first brand new car and only because the new models are the same price as the second hand or cheaper!

 

One thing I'd point out, which you probably have noticed, is that the ES is a VERY long car, it's a full 5m - it's 5 inches longer than your Mazda. If you go to town a lot and need to navigate parking spots, you'll need your calm nerves.

My other issue would be is that for that size, your only power train option is the 300h. It's probably enough, but just in case you were thinking lots of motorway driving, and that might include trips to Europe, it won't feel like the most responsive due to lack of torque (it's all in the computer really, I don't really understand why Lexus did not go for stronger electric torque assistance as an optional setting when the engine is under 3000rpm at high speeds). For my use, 300h feels a bit weak even for an IS chassis when on motorways. Again, not a major issue in the UK, but I just came back from a long trip across France, Germany and Austria where I needed to move apace at 90-110mph. Don't get me wrong, it's going to get you to whatever speed you want (well, up to about 115 probably), the performance is there, it just won't pull quick for the first few seconds before the engine torque kicks in at around 4000 rpm.

I can't really comment on the options, I never bought a new car. By the looks of it, there are rather few options left for the Premium edition, it's either available or not available at all, and I'd also warn that given the supply chain issues, I would expect that deviating from ready-made cars would add months to your lead time, while in this environment I don't suppose sales people feel the need to give in to pressure either. People are buying new cars like there is no tomorrow, the roads are full with 20-21 plates.

If it were me, I'd include the following things:

- latest software and map update (I know many say just use your phone, but it part principle part preference - I dislike mounting a phone in my car, or fiddle with connection, I resent the unnecessarily overcomplicated technology we have these days);

- negotiate a multi-year service plan ahead;

- in case you live up North / in Scotland or go to Europe in winter: a set of winter tyres - ask for at cost price + VAT;

- bootliner, Lexus first aid kit, road safety kit, and a Lexus umbrella - sounds nothing but why would you not have them for a brand new luxury sedan? These should come as standard anyway for a premium brand;

- paint protection - ceramic or some other hardened layer on top, to keep it pristine as long as possible;

Most important thing: enjoy it!

[royoftherovers]

Welcome Digga, good to have you with us.

As Daniel has said-all good points for your consideration.

I would suggest ALL SEASON TYRES rather than WINTER tyres. Michelin cross climates are superb.

Daniels`s comment re length of car is very important and Lexus is not like a BMW or Audi as progress is linear not accelerative. Reliability is a given.

My only additional comment is do read and digest the Handbook as it is more important than owners realise.

Do enjoy both the Forum and the ES.

Send piccies in due course !👍👍👍

 

[e-yes]

47 minutes ago, DBIZO said:

One thing I'd point out, which you probably have noticed, is that the ES is a VERY long car, it's a full 5m - it's 5 inches longer than your Mazda. If you go to town a lot and need to navigate parking spots, you'll need your calm nerves.

My other issue would be is that for that size, your only power train option is the 300h. It's probably enough, but just in case you were thinking lots of motorway driving, and that might include trips to Europe, it won't feel like the most responsive due to lack of torque (it's all in the computer really, I don't really understand why Lexus did not go for stronger electric torque assistance as an optional setting when the engine is under 3000rpm at high speeds). For my use, 300h feels a bit weak even for an IS chassis when on motorways. Again, not a major issue in the UK, but I just came back from a long trip across France, Germany and Austria where I needed to move apace at 90-110mph. Don't get me wrong, it's going to get you to whatever speed you want (well, up to about 115 probably), the performance is there, it just won't pull quick for the first few seconds before the engine torque kicks in at around 4000 rpm.

I can't really comment on the options, I never bought a new car. By the looks of it, there are rather few options left for the Premium edition, it's either available or not available at all, and I'd also warn that given the supply chain issues, I would expect that deviating from ready-made cars would add months to your lead time, while in this environment I don't suppose sales people feel the need to give in to pressure either. People are buying new cars like there is no tomorrow, the roads are full with 20-21 plates.

If it were me, I'd include the following things:

- latest software and map update (I know many say just use your phone, but it part principle part preference - I dislike mounting a phone in my car, or fiddle with connection, I resent the unnecessarily overcomplicated technology we have these days);

- negotiate a multi-year service plan ahead;

- in case you live up North / in Scotland or go to Europe in winter: a set of winter tyres - ask for at cost price + VAT;

- bootliner, Lexus first aid kit, road safety kit, and a Lexus umbrella - sounds nothing but why would you not have them for a brand new luxury sedan? These should come as standard anyway for a premium brand;

- paint protection - ceramic or some other hardened layer on top, to keep it pristine as long as possible;

Most important thing: enjoy it!

>it's a full 5m

Well, not quite. It is 4975mm. That is about an inch short of full 5m. I guess that may or may not matter all that much when it is that long already.

>it won't feel like the most responsive due to lack of torque

Are you saying that for ES 300h OR your IS 300h ? Lexus do not publish the exact total system torque but most reports claim upwards of 300Nm total torque for the 2019 onwards ES300h setup.

With two adults and two kids (not tested with luggage) I have not yet felt lack of torque. Haven't driven in three digits yet but high two digits are perfectly maintained.

I have had the 165PS manual Mazda6 Sport Nav (2017) from brand new for about an year followed by an Audi A6 (2018) 2.0TDI and the torque on ES300h is more than adequate for the load we have for it. (Comparing with the 400Nm I got from the Audi A6)

In fact, the 400Nm on the A6 was accompanied by turbo lag (no matter what VAG say about the low lag) and then the numb steering and the stiffened S-Line suspension made the whole thing feel like a caffeinated middle weight boxer trying (wrongly) to punch above its weight class. The best fuel consumption I ever saw on it was 65mpg after a very careful motorway run. The ES easily manages close to 60mpg on motorway without deliberate eco driving.

In my experience the Mazda6 is one of THE nicest driving cars this side of a Porsche. Most other manufacturers do not know how to setup the EPS properly. (BMW included... I was shocked how dead the steering felt in comparison to my previous 2008 BMW 318i in the newer versions of 3 and 5 series)

The ES though is very different and is way way better than that 2.0 TDI Audi A6 (for that matter most cars I have driven previously... except Porsche Cayman but that is a different argument)

I would highly recommend the ES300h and the OP should get a test drive to make sure it matches up with their needs.

HTH

Cheers,

--E

 

[royoftherovers]

A really nice and supportive comments Less.

[Tonyw]

1 hour ago, DBIZO said:

One thing I'd point out, which you probably have noticed, is that the ES is a VERY long car, it's a full 5m - it's 5 inches longer than your Mazda. If you go to town a lot and need to navigate parking spots, you'll need your calm nerves.

My other issue would be is that for that size, your only power train option is the 300h. It's probably enough, but just in case you were thinking lots of motorway driving, and that might include trips to Europe, it won't feel like the most responsive due to lack of torque (it's all in the computer really, I don't really understand why Lexus did not go for stronger electric torque assistance as an optional setting when the engine is under 3000rpm at high speeds). For my use, 300h feels a bit weak even for an IS chassis when on motorways. Again, not a major issue in the UK, but I just came back from a long trip across France, Germany and Austria where I needed to move apace at 90-110mph. Don't get me wrong, it's going to get you to whatever speed you want (well, up to about 115 probably), the performance is there, it just won't pull quick for the first few seconds before the engine torque kicks in at around 4000 rpm.

I can't really comment on the options, I never bought a new car. By the looks of it, there are rather few options left for the Premium edition, it's either available or not available at all, and I'd also warn that given the supply chain issues, I would expect that deviating from ready-made cars would add months to your lead time, while in this environment I don't suppose sales people feel the need to give in to pressure either. People are buying new cars like there is no tomorrow, the roads are full with 20-21 plates.

If it were me, I'd include the following things:

- latest software and map update (I know many say just use your phone, but it part principle part preference - I dislike mounting a phone in my car, or fiddle with connection, I resent the unnecessarily overcomplicated technology we have these days);

- negotiate a multi-year service plan ahead;

- in case you live up North / in Scotland or go to Europe in winter: a set of winter tyres - ask for at cost price + VAT;

- bootliner, Lexus first aid kit, road safety kit, and a Lexus umbrella - sounds nothing but why would you not have them for a brand new luxury sedan? These should come as standard anyway for a premium brand;

- paint protection - ceramic or some other hardened layer on top, to keep it pristine as long as possible;

Most important thing: enjoy it!

Interesting what you say about the initial pull away. It was a concern for me (reading and watching tests, the US videos are less negative) until I test drove one. My current car is a 200bhp diesel Jag which is quicker 0-60 but feels a lot slower 0-30 which is what I feel is the most important (for pulling out, roundabouts etc) I also had a Mazda 6 Sport Nav 2.2d which felt no quicker, my only car that was quicker was a CLS, but build quality was awful.

I have also gone standard Premium model, the only thing it lacks for me is the stereo (my Jag has the Meridian 825W surround) but I can live with the Pioneer it is much better than the German standard systems. I liked the cream interior until I sat in a 1 year old car that was covered in marks and denim stains, so have gone black with Mesa red. To spec a similar sized German it would need another £10K on my budget (I too used Carwow for price matching to get a huge discount making a new one cheaper than a 1 year old) Just a shame it doesn't arrive until the next year

[Mincey]

6 hours ago, e-yes said:

Haven't driven in three digits yet but high two digits are perfectly maintained.

 

 

I have, but will deny everything if Plod gets involved. It gets there very quickly, and provides an extremely solid and composed ride as you gamble on a court appearance.

[peniole]

I've driven mine to Germany and back. Power delivery is not an issue, just don't expect drama, it delivers it in a calm linear fashion. You will notice the quick pick up from zero due to the electric torque. This is not your standard hybrid where the electric motor assists the ICE, it's rather the other way around. Electric motor (well the drive one, yes there's two on this thing) is 120hp. Most of the time you'll be using that, then the engine kicks in to spin up the second electric motor as a generator in serial hybrid mode, then when you want more power the power split device will send engine power to the drive shaft to assist the electric motor for a combined system output of 215hp. Also, managed 60ish MPG on that trip in normal mode, ac on, normal driving.

Yes it's long, but easy to park, visibility is good.

No options to negotiate on really, I did negotiate on a service plan. I think the premium edition is the sweet spot in the range, I got one.

Enjoy the quiet.

[royoftherovers]

26 minutes ago, peniole said:

I've driven mine to Germany and back. Power delivery is not an issue, just don't expect drama, it delivers it in a calm linear fashion. You will notice the quick pick up from zero due to the electric torque. This is not your standard hybrid where the electric motor assists the ICE, it's rather the other way around. Electric motor (well the drive one, yes there's two on this thing) is 120hp. Most of the time you'll be using that, then the engine kicks in to spin up the second electric motor as a generator in serial hybrid mode, then when you want more power the power split device will send engine power to the drive shaft to assist the electric motor for a combined system output of 215hp. Also, managed 60ish MPG on that trip in normal mode, ac on, normal driving.

Yes it's long, but easy to park, visibility is good.

No options to negotiate on really, I did negotiate on a service plan. I think the premium edition is the sweet spot in the range, I got one.

Enjoy the quiet.

Great Post Peniole. Lexus and Drama is a contradiction in terms.😊👍

 

Audi and BMW drivers, look away now !

[dutchie01]

I find the ES300H a very refined, balanced and sophisticated car. The engine/drivetrain is totally unobtrusive, the changeover from electric to petrol not recognisable, the comfort a bit on the floaty side on the highway and it is earily silent. Its front wheel drive but you will not notice, the whole drive is a bit of a non event and strange as it sounds i mean this as a compliment. Show me one car in thesame pricerange that offers thesame experience..

On the other side its not perfect. The looks are not for everyone, the engine could do with some more horses and the interior could do with higher quality materials ( The 2022 model seems to have an updated interior with better materials). It is a very tempting car nevertheless. It has 2 big pros, reliability and it is more exclusive than a Ferrari!

[DBIZO]

8 hours ago, Tonyw said:

Interesting what you say about the initial pull away. It was a concern for me (reading and watching tests, the US videos are less negative) until I test drove one. My current car is a 200bhp diesel Jag which is quicker 0-60 but feels a lot slower 0-30 which is what I feel is the most important (for pulling out, roundabouts etc) I also had a Mazda 6 Sport Nav 2.2d which felt no quicker, my only car that was quicker was a CLS, but build quality was awful.

I have also gone standard Premium model, the only thing it lacks for me is the stereo (my Jag has the Meridian 825W surround) but I can live with the Pioneer it is much better than the German standard systems. I liked the cream interior until I sat in a 1 year old car that was covered in marks and denim stains, so have gone black with Mesa red. To spec a similar sized German it would need another £10K on my budget (I too used Carwow for price matching to get a huge discount making a new one cheaper than a 1 year old) Just a shame it doesn't arrive until the next year

It's not the initial pull away, it's the pull at high speeds needs high revs. Sorry I wasn't clear. Initial pull is great due to electric assist.

[Digga]

Thanks guys.  Yes I thought it looked rather long and my mazda 6 was long enough! It looks like I am going to have to remove my built in benches and work top in my garage to get it in as the mazda 6 was 5cm from my vice. Which is a bit of a shame. 

I am not all too worried about the lack of power for this, its used for taking the kids to school and cruising on trips and holidays. Think ill re think the cream and go for black as probably more practical as you say. Will see if i can get any deals on a service plan.

Any one paid the dealer to fit a dash cam? Just thinking about this as my wife has just sent a picture of another scrape on her car and the car next to her's brazen enough to still be there with the accompanying scrape on his bumper. 

Are the paint protections really worth it? On my 6 i bought a decent hard polish and sprayed the cloth seats and saved about 1k.

 

Also, in terms of reliability no doubt when any of the hybrid functions give up its going to be a hell of an expense but hopefully the 10 year warranty will cover anything untoward.

[Mincey]

1 hour ago, Digga said:

Any one paid the dealer to fit a dash cam? Just thinking about this as my wife has just sent a picture of another scrape on her car and the car next to her's brazen enough to still be there with the accompanying scrape on his bumper. 

Mine goes in on Friday to have front and back cameras fitted.

1 hour ago, Digga said:

Are the paint protections really worth it? On my 6 i bought a decent hard polish and sprayed the cloth seats and saved about 1k.

Not necessarily paint protection, but I've got scratchguard for mine. Other threads on here will tell you about how good their customer service was for me...

[Tonyw]

1 minute ago, Mincey said:

Mine goes in on Friday to have front and back cameras fitted.

Not necessarily paint protection, but I've got scratchguard for mine. Other threads on here will tell you about how good their customer service was for me...

I too will be getting the cameras done when it arrives. 

[Digga]

I couldn't find anything in relation to smart guard except you used chips away to get rid of some scratches on your boot and wheel

[Mincey]

Just now, Digga said:

I couldn't find anything in relation to smart guard except you used chips away to get rid of some scratches on your boot and wheel

That's exactly it - if you need SmartGuard in a hurry, be wary. They're supposed to come out within two weeks, but not in my case. I wouldn't take the cover out again, instead I'd put a regular amount away each month for repairs, and if it's not used when the car goes back, then great.

[beyond the blue]

2 hours ago, Digga said:

Thanks guys.  Yes I thought it looked rather long and my mazda 6 was long enough! It looks like I am going to have to remove my built in benches and work top in my garage to get it in as the mazda 6 was 5cm from my vice. Which is a bit of a shame. 

I am not all too worried about the lack of power for this, its used for taking the kids to school and cruising on trips and holidays. Think ill re think the cream and go for black as probably more practical as you say. Will see if i can get any deals on a service plan.

Any one paid the dealer to fit a dash cam? Just thinking about this as my wife has just sent a picture of another scrape on her car and the car next to her's brazen enough to still be there with the accompanying scrape on his bumper. 

Are the paint protections really worth it? On my 6 i bought a decent hard polish and sprayed the cloth seats and saved about 1k.

 

Also, in terms of reliability no doubt when any of the hybrid functions give up its going to be a hell of an expense but hopefully the 10 year warranty will cover anything untoward.

I've just booked my new ES Premium edition in (when I get it) for full exterior ceramic coating including all glass and wheels (both sides) with the 5 year guarantee (what ever that actually means) for £950 =2.5% of the cost of the car. We shall see what we shall see.

[Digga]

I went ahead and ordered us a Lexus ES Premium in Sonic Grey with BLACK interior! Hoping this will be ready by April. Was really impressed on the test drive; I took a 2018 ES and a brand new ES base model for 1 hour each. Motorway 20 miles, speed bumps, side roads, pot holes etc to give it a proper test.

I added in the GAP protection + SMART cover (since it's sonic grey, I decided this would be worth the 450ish over 3 years , as even one scrape is going to cost me that). I also added on the front  + rear dashcams

Decided against the sureguard protection in lieu of the scratch cover.

Interested if any one has used any leather protection themselves, i.e something like the gtechniq lqab l1 guard?  - i've got some scotchguard still in the garage that I bought for my mazda.

I bought myself a tin of Collinite No476S to put on my new Mazda6 back in 2014 in lieu of the smartguard and never used it. Think i'll treat it to a coat of thiswax and try and keep on top of a polish + wax each year and clean it myself. Then after a few years if I am still in love maybe get a £500 detail to keep it topped up. What's everyone else doing ?