GS Mk4 is 'the top used car to own'.

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On 10/27/2021 at 11:33 PM, Pielight said:

Reading other threads gives an impression that dampers are a weak spot on GS? I hope not as they aren't covered by Relax and I imagine the adaptive units fitted to my GSF cost a fair packet.

I've been very fortunate to still be within my extended warranty period.

Strangely enough though, it popped up early at 40k during service and MOT; it was noted that the car had "misting" on the rear shocks. Then nothing during it's 50k service 6 months later. Year on after the 40k - next MOT and 60k service it was an MOT fail but had the components replaced within a two weeks under the warranty although Relax wouldn't have covered it as you pointed out correctly.

I was quite... shocked... seeing that it wasn't the first part repaired under warranty on a less than 5 year old car at the time.

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On 10/30/2021 at 9:40 AM, Mike_Mac said:

I always laughed at the 'Grandad Car' and similar labels. Someone who says that is all about the perceived image by the herd, and likely knows nothing more about the car than that label and is therefore not worth listening to much IMO.

Most of my cars have been 'grandad' cars. Why give a fig what other people think!

I am yet to come across anyone who isn't at least twice my age driving one of these though, must mean only the wisest choose to own these.

The second hand market is therefore full of low mileage, well maintained examples, I see no negatives!

[Pielight]

5 hours ago, -Error- said:

I've been very fortunate to still be within my extended warranty period.

Strangely enough though, it popped up early at 40k during service and MOT; it was noted that the car had "misting" on the rear shocks. Then nothing during it's 50k service 6 months later. Year on after the 40k - next MOT and 60k service it was an MOT fail but had the components replaced within a two weeks under the warranty although Relax wouldn't have covered it as you pointed out correctly.

I was quite... shocked... seeing that it wasn't the first part repaired under warranty on a less than 5 year old car at the time.

Sounds like I better start saving! The shocks are one of the very significant omissions from Relax that detract from the attraction of it being free. I've had many cars, but none that have had shocks fail in anywhere near as little as 5 years, so it certainly seems like it may be a GS weak point. Fingers crossed it was just a single batch of shocks affected.

[Mossypossy]

Lexus gave me an amber for misting shock back in June.

Non Lexus MOT this week did not mention it.

[Lwerewolf]

Shocks are consumables. Better replace early due to misting than have them looking good at 150k with performance degraded to nothing.

edit: ...or rebuild/refurb but that's not an option for OEM parts nowadays... for... some... stupid... reason...

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I'm surprised there's no OEM refurb option especially for parts such as these.

I wouldn't class shocks as consumables on road cars though. This is the first car that I come across where they are known to fail at low mileages. I mean shocks have been replaced before brake discs on my car which doesn't seem quite right. 

[Lwerewolf]

Shocks' performance deteriorates with time. Not as noticeable on shocks which solely rely on shims for damping force generation, but it's still there. What is unfortunate is that (almost all) OEM units are not serviceable at all. Other than that - stock shocks are monotubes with an adjustable (by AVS motor action) orifice.

[Pielight]

Some interesting points made. It is frustrating that OEM shocks are non rebuildable - that said, there are companies that can rebuild motorcycle shocks that aren’t rebuildable, but I don’t know whether the same applies for car shocks - the state of the exterior of car shocks when they fail (corrosion) combined with relatively lower cost for most models and higher longevity may count against this.

I only do around 6k miles a year on my GSF which has covered 30k so it could be age rather than mileage that is the factor for failure. The 50k/less than 5 years old failure mentioned above suggests that failure can occur at relatively low miles and age. Agree about changing shocks before performance drops off substantially, but from past experience I would expect that to be at a much greater mileage/age.

[ColinBarber]

On 10/27/2021 at 11:33 PM, Pielight said:

Reading other threads gives an impression that dampers are a weak spot on GS? I hope not as they aren't covered by Relax and I imagine the adaptive units fitted to my GSF cost a fair packet.

Dampers on the GS F are completely different to the ones on the GS but certainly that can mist too although may not indicate a fault according to Sachs who are the OEM - MOT may give an advisory but Lexus won't replace them under warranty, be that manufactures, used or Relax until there are other symptoms.

Quote

Oil mist residue on damper

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Cause:

During every stroke, the piston rod carries a very small amount of oil from the working cylinder to lubricate the seal.

Consequence:

If the damper was bone-dry, residue from this oil will be visible.

Comment:

This oil does not indicate a damper defect; it is perfectly normal. Following extended periods of use, oil mist residue may even be visible on around one third of the reservoir tube.

 

[Nico72]

Really pleased to read this article from Auto Express. To be honest, I am not surprised as I am loving mine more and more. There is no other car I would want to trade it in with for now, so I made a decision to keep it and I am finishing the last payment in December 2021 to own the vehicle...

It is such a smooth car to drive and so comfy and I love the V6 engine with Hybrid, they work together just great...

[Pielight]

6 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

Dampers on the GS F are completely different to the ones on the GS but certainly that can mist too although may not indicate a fault according to Sachs who are the OEM - MOT may give an advisory but Lexus won't replace them under warranty, be that manufactures, used or Relax until there are other symptoms.

 

I was aware that the early GSF used Sachs conventional dampers (without AVS) but didnt know whether they also supplied the AVS units fitted to the 2017 on GSF. I think the non F GS models use KYB units? That being the case, hopefully the Sachs units are not so prone to the same premature failure that seems to afflict some KYB units.

As Sachs themselves say, slight misting and traces of oil on at the end of the seal travel is normal (although it is reassuring for to see the manufacturers themselves state this - thanks for posting). A seal needs to be moist to do its job, so it’s quite normal to see a very small amount of oil - this was very evident on the twin shock motorcycles I’ve owned as the dampers are in plain view. There was invariably a ring of oil/detritus mix on the damper rod at the extreme of its travel.
 

I’ve also seen seals initially leak on certain components (bus differential, motorcycle crank seals) that have stood idle for a long time, then become properly sealed against leakage again in use, due to the leaking oil reinvigorating the seal.

Unfortunately dampers are specifically excluded from Relax, but I had it confirmed after posting comments on the Lexus.mag site (that describes Relax and has FAQs, etc)  that the other components that interface with the dampers are covered.

[ColinBarber]

On 11/3/2021 at 10:34 PM, Pielight said:

I was aware that the early GSF used Sachs conventional dampers (without AVS) but didnt know whether they also supplied the AVS units fitted to the 2017 on GSF. I think the non F GS models use KYB units? That being the case, hopefully the Sachs units are not so prone to the same premature failure that seems to afflict some KYB units.

Yes, with or without AVS the RC F and GS F use Sachs monotubes. My rears started to mist so not immune but the issue didn't develop whilst I had the vehicle.

I imagine the GS models use KYB, they are Toyota's main OEM but there are 20+ different part numbers for the different variants of GS so some may be other OEMs.

 

It is a shame the shocks aren't covered by Relax, they were covered under the old extended warranty 😞 

[Pielight]

13 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

It is a shame the shocks aren't covered by Relax, they were covered under the old extended warranty 😞 

Very true…I felt a lot more reassured with the old extended warranty. I’m hoping that the company that provides relax (or possibly even a third party) realise there’s a market for a top up policy to cover the items not covered by Relax. Logically (but not necessarily) that would be cheaper than the old extended warranty for the same cover. You would think that would make business sense to them.

[Initial P]

Too many claims maybe.

[F.A.]

On 11/6/2021 at 11:39 AM, Pielight said:

Very true…I felt a lot more reassured with the old extended warranty. I’m hoping that the company that provides relax (or possibly even a third party) realise there’s a market for a top up policy to cover the items not covered by Relax. Logically (but not necessarily) that would be cheaper than the old extended warranty for the same cover. You would think that would make business sense to them.

What other items are not included in the Relax Warranty over the old warranty?  I must admit, i would probably continue with the Extended Warranty if Relax was not around. However it saves us c. £1100 every two years, so that could always go towards items not covered. I imagine they would cost more than that though ! 

[Pielight]

43 minutes ago, F.A. said:

What other items are not included in the Relax Warranty over the old warranty?  I must admit, i would probably continue with the Extended Warranty if Relax was not around. However it saves us c. £1100 every two years, so that could always go towards items not covered. I imagine they would cost more than that though ! 

Off the top of my head, shock absorbers, multimedia system (Inc satnav screen), lights and rubber hoses. That's no exhaustive. Bearing in mind a headlamp is over £3k (flawed used one on eBay for £1750 last time I looked) and satnav screen circa £4.5k I believe and shocks very pricey (with relatively probability of failure) these are considerable omissions. As you got roadside assist and free mot with the extended warranty, the actual cost was just £740 for 2 years.

That said, I cancelled mine with just 11 months to run as they give me a full 12 months refund (£550) and I figured the car is just 4 years old  and come renewal time the extended warranty is no longer available anyway, so I might as well start banking the savings now (while parts are less likely to fail) for when the things start to go wrong. Thinking may be flawed,  but I'll know one way or another by next August!!

BTW...I took roadside assistance at same time for £125 pa (excellent value I think as it covers both me and wife for our 3 cars).

[F.A.]

Thanks for this @Pielight.  What did the Extended Warranty cover regarding lights?  I know bulbs aren’t covered and we have had several claims rejected for moisture in lights on our RX. 

[Pielight]

18 minutes ago, F.A. said:

Thanks for this @Pielight.  What did the Extended Warranty cover regarding lights?  I know bulbs aren’t covered and we have had several claims rejected for moisture in lights on our RX. 

Youre welcome. Your experience goes to show how open to interpretation that even the extended warranty is. Again off tne top of my head, lights were not on the list of excluded parts as they are with Relax. In fact the EW focused more on what wasn't covered than what was, so as lights weren't excluded you could assume they were covered. Relax states if a part isn't specifically mentioned its not covered.

Both warranties have the wear and tear card to play, so it seems that perhaps the seals or whatever caused moisture ingress were deemed to have perished because of natural aging that it is reasonable to expect had a car. My guess would be that the age of the car come into play here? There are also posts on this forum where people had issues with defective shock absorbers that were deemed as fair wear and tear issues in extendedwarranty claims...again the trend there seems to be older and/or higher mileage cars.

Another potential problem with head lights would be the surface can take on a cloudy/opaque appearance with age  which both looks awful and reduces their effectiveness. A mate of mine had his replaced under warranty on a 9 year old Aston Martin DB9...but he had to haggle to get around the wear and tear determination.

There is also the electronic wizardry that has potential to fail with adaptive headlights.

What did you end up doing as regards the moisture in tne headlights with your car and how costly did it prove to be?

[F.A.]

I agree with your post. I think it depends on the dealer also, as I’ve seen headlights replaced under warranty on other members cars. 
 

We have had shocks, springs and other suspension bits changes on our RX under the extended warranty, so it does work! I have just left the headlights. They don’t seem to be getting worse and it only happens during the winter months. It’s just around the DRLs. 

[MikeTangoWhisky]

I'm a twenty-nine year old owner of a GS450H F sport. My mates who all drive hot hatchs poked fun until they came for a drive in it. It's a shame lexus carries the grandad reputation. They are superb cars which were overlooked/poorly reviewed in the press. The reality of driving one everyday is quite different. 

[royoftherovers]

19 minutes ago, MikeTangoWhisky said:

I'm a twenty-nine year old owner of a GS450H F sport. My mates who all drive hot hatchs poked fun until they came for a drive in it. It's a shame lexus carries the grandad reputation. They are superb cars which were overlooked/poorly reviewed in the press. The reality of driving one everyday is quite different. 

Welcome mark. Well said Si.

So, how do you come to own one Mak ?

[superatticman]

3 hours ago, MikeTangoWhisky said:

I'm a twenty-nine year old owner of a GS450H F sport. My mates who all drive hot hatchs poked fun until they came for a drive in it. It's a shame lexus carries the grandad reputation. They are superb cars which were overlooked/poorly reviewed in the press. The reality of driving one everyday is quite different. 

Good man. I'd listed an Opel Senator, Opel Monza, Rover 827SLi and an Omega 2.5CD before I was even 30 🙂 They were all slightly higher mileage and far from perfect but proud to admit I never owned a 'hot hatch' of any description. The Monza and the Rover were pretty quick for their time and could certainly beat most hot hatches to a 1/4 mile.