Formula one

[First_Lexus]

On 10/19/2021 at 7:52 PM, Localhero said:

I just wondered if there was a forum/topic for formula one enthusiasts on here I did a search but couldn't find anything? Many thanks LH

I’ve followed and enjoyed Formula One for as long as I can remember. As a youngster, one of my favourite ZX Spectrum games was the (text based!) F1 game, when I used to play as Andrea de Cesaris. I spent hours on that game…

This season has been better than the last few, but tbh the current crop of drivers don’t do a lot for me. I preferred things when they were a bit more amateur, and had a bit more personality. Jenson Button was probably the last driver I really liked, and I enjoy his commentary now. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that safety should go backwards - just that the ultra fit and media savvy drivers now are all a bit…robotic. Give me a James Hunt any day. Some of his stories about what they all got up to as a group - different times…

I’ve got a couple of tenuous links to F1 too. My brother-in-law worked for Lotus and Jaguar in the late 90s and early 2000s, making moulds (by hand) for carbon fibre parts. I don’t remember him saying it was very glamorous, but he did meet a few people and still has a few parts knocking about. The brother of a girl I worked with in the 90s was a mechanic with Williams, and he used to fax her in the office (again, different times!) from wherever he was in the world, often with messages from the drivers on the paper too. At the time that seemed very exciting!

[dutchie01]

1 hour ago, First_Lexus said:

just that the ultra fit and media savvy drivers now are all a bit…robotic. Give me a James Hunt any day. Some of his stories about what they all got up to as a group - different times…

Spot on! In the old days they didn't know if you were still alive at the end of the race so yes you could see drivers in the tip top bar in Monaco or the paddock club in Zandvoort  having a party with large amounts of alcohol, cigarettes and women the night before the race. Today's cars are un driveable without being ultra fit and the obscene amount of money involved has changed everything. I do visit the Historic GP events sometimes, great to hear and smell those old cars from close-by. But dear oh dear the chilling danger of driving one of these.

 

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8 hours ago, LenT said:

[...] I watch British Touring Car Championship races.  Watching four of them taking a high speed corner in line abreast is something you'll rarely ever see in F1.  Apart from the occasional appearance of an IS200, Lexus has not been seriously involved.  Even then, it seems, the usual 6-cylinder engine was actually replaced with a 4-cylinder unit from the Toyota Altezza RS200. (Or so I read in the Touring Car Register!)

Correct, the BTC-T cars used the 3S-GE Black Top engines as they were much better fit for purpose. Their base power was pushing above 200bhp as compared to a mediocre 150bhp of the fuel efficient 1G-GEU. Although at the start of their 2001 campaign they missed their first race due to many delays such as gearbox being too short thus requiring longer than expected prop shafts or engines being late arriving from Japan. It's worth noting that the Lexus team was a customer team and never had any factory support. BTCC as it's now called is definitely a fun sport to watch still, although I wish Rockingham was still an active circuit for them to come back to. And Castle Combe, if we're making requests.

[-Error-]

@dutchie01 Historic events are fun regardless of the category. Goodwood Revival and the Glover Trophy is my most favourite event on the calendar. It also gives a great perspective on how far the sport has come.

I remember few years back attending an F1 weekend and the most fun to watch were the GP2 cars whilst they still raced with the Mecachrome V8's, even they have now been replaced with muffled V6s. Although I'm all for sustainability and pushing the Eco agenda within motorsport I do wonder if they will do something in 2025 to bring back the one thing that's missing in the current F1 cars - the noise. 

Safety-wise, the FIA has really learned its lessons and done so much regarding driver safety - just the few recent incidents show us how many lives have been saved thanks to the regulations. Now I'm expecting the same to happen with FIA track approval and spectator safety following the last fatal crash at Brands - I think soon enough we will all moan how attending races isn't the same anymore as they'll push us so far away from the track we will barely see who's on track.

[LenT]

1 hour ago, -Error- said:

@dutchie01 Historic events are fun regardless of the category. Goodwood Revival and the Glover Trophy is my most favourite event on the calendar. It also gives a great perspective on how far the sport has come.

We’ve lived within earshot of Silverstone for over 40 years - if the wind’s in the right direction!  But the only meetings that really attracted me were those of the Vintage Sports Car Club.  

You really have to be there to enjoy the special smell of Castrol R….

1 hour ago, -Error- said:

I remember few years back attending an F1 weekend and the most fun to watch were the GP2 cars whilst they still raced with the Mecachrome V8's, even they have now been replaced with muffled V6s. Although I'm all for sustainability and pushing the Eco agenda within motorsport I do wonder if they will do something in 2025 to bring back the one thing that's missing in the current F1 cars - the noise. 

I do believe I saw a news item which suggested that your wish may be answered.  New engine specs are being devised with the very purpose of restoring the noise of an F1 engine.

On a nice summer’s day, we would watch the British GP on TV and have the doors open to the garden to allow some trackside noise to drift in.

[Mr Vlad]

I used to like F1. The Schumacher days in particular. I find the likes of the current top two drivers too big headed. Yes Lewis is an outstanding and lucky driver having g won so much to date. The past number of years the best four wheel sport I could watch on terrestrial TV was World Rally Cross very closely followed by BTCC. Both wipe the floor with F1 in my opinion. 

If not for this thread I'd not have been Informed that F1 won't be on normal TV? Is that right? Well I certainly won't pay to watch it if I can't record it on normal TV.

[First_Lexus]

6 hours ago, LenT said:

We’ve lived within earshot of Silverstone for over 40 years - if the wind’s in the right direction!  But the only meetings that really attracted me were those of the Vintage Sports Car Club.  

@LenTmany years ago I lived in Brackley for a few years, which is similar. The thrill of being able to go to Silverstone for the historic events, and the excitement in the town on Grand Prix weekend was very special. Even earlier in my life, I was lucky enough to be educated near Silverstone too. Fair to say I wish we’d been there during the Summer for the Grand Prix (but guess the Masters were glad it was during our jolly hols!).

[VFR]

For me rallying is the cutting edge as road racing is to the biking world.

Lewis Hamilton is better than Schumacher was (IMO) as he is a clean driver who rarely oversteps the mark, where as Schumacher blatantly cheated on a number of occasions (well known ones) to secure 2 titles.

I do wish Lewis would drop the taking the knee crap as it is not doing his image any good (again IMO) but the motoring press are really pushing the Lewis bad - Max good line from what I read.

Bottas has been a poor number 2 for the past 2 seasons for Lewis as its clear that that is what he is employed to do and being paid a handsome wage for and I fancy that Russel will do a much better job than Bottas ever done while he waits for his chance to take over from the master.

[ALAW]

21 hours ago, LenT said:

Indeed so.  For me it was Raymond Baxter who set the commentary standard for the BBC.  A successful rally driver himself, he'd been a Spitfire pilot in WWll and I suppose that once you've had, say, 1800hp of Merlin engine in front of you, you can put an F1 engine of the time in perspective.

But much as I used to enjoy F1, for really close motor racing and plenty of overtaking, I watch British Touring Car Championship races.  Watching four of them taking a high speed corner in line abreast is something you'll rarely ever see in F1.  Apart from the occasional appearance of an IS200, Lexus has not been seriously involved.  Even then, it seems, the usual 6-cylinder engine was actually replaced with a 4-cylinder unit from the Toyota Altezza RS200. (Or so I read in the Touring Car Register!)

Raymond Baxter i think he was also on Tommorrows world. He was also the go to man for presenting the Farnborough airshow whenit was televised.

[Shahpor]

On 10/22/2021 at 10:47 AM, -Error- said:

I remember few years back attending an F1 weekend and the most fun to watch were the GP2 cars whilst they still raced with the Mecachrome V8's, even they have now been replaced with muffled V6s. Although I'm all for sustainability and pushing the Eco agenda within motorsport I do wonder if they will do something in 2025 to bring back the one thing that's missing in the current F1 cars - the noise. 

I remember going to a couple of testing sessions at Silverstone (they were even free back then!).

The last was with the current hybrid engines and you could happily stand around and listen to them go past without much drama.

However, I also went when they were still using the v8's and the difference is incomparable.  The sound that you could hear long before seeing the actual car, which would turn into almost white noise as it passed along with the feeling in your chest from the waves was something else.

Although, it must be said that it isn't only that they are hybrid that makes them quite but the RPM they use now as well.  Current engines that rev to roughly 13000rpm are never going to sound as good as ones that were tuned to 18000rpm (or 20000rpm for a short time).

It is a shame they have lost the sound and I have my doubts that the new engines being proposed will do much to help.

[dutchie01]

19 hours ago, VFR said:

Lewis Hamilton is better than Schumacher was (IMO) as he is a clean driver who rarely oversteps the mark, where as Schumacher blatantly cheated on a number of occasions (well known ones) to secure 2 titles.

Well, there was no need for Lewis to do so was there as the only competition could come from a teammate. Not a lot of pressure on him for 6 of the 7 titles just cruise happily to another championship ( nico rosberg succeeded once). I think Schumacher was more all or nothing and Hamilton is probably the best all rounder, good at everything from wet to qualy to the race itself. What they both have in common is they drove/drive for a team that is totally dominant securing win after win. I lost interest after 2 sesons of ferrari wins and thesame for Lewis with mercedes. No competition for years. I do think this year is pretty different. Shame Ferrari is not up there as well. 

[-Error-]

On 10/21/2021 at 10:48 PM, paulrnx said:

Ham

Bot

Ver

I've held off until the teams got their set up right for qualifying. 

I'd love to see Max hold onto it:

Ver

Per

Ham

[paulrnx]

I’ll go with

Verstappen

Hamilton

Perez

in hindsight of course 😀

[Mr Vlad]

The Schumacher era and this Hamilton era are so different. I've not seen Hamilton do such as Schumacher did. One example I can't remember the track but after a straight there's a left hander and just one line to take it, from the inside. Schumacher was fighting for the lead and on that section of road he repeatedly drove on the Right side of the road to clean/scrub it. Guess what. He overtook Hakinen I think on the outside which was totally unheard of. Can't see Hamilton or anyone nowadays doing that. Another example Schumacher's cars gearbox went for a dump and all he had was the first 3 gears. He won that race to. Again can't see this era of F1 driver do that. Just thought I'd put this post into the mix.

[Localhero]

On 22/10/2021 at 11:48 AM, LenT said:

We’ve lived within earshot of Silverstone for over 40 years - if the wind’s in the right direction!  But the only meetings that really attracted me were those of the Vintage Sports Car Club.  

You really have to be there to enjoy the special smell of Castrol R….

I do believe I saw a news item which😀 suggested that your wish may be answered.  New engine specs are being devised with the very purpose of restoring the noise of an F1 engine.

On a nice summer’s day, we would watch the British GP on TV and have the doors open to the garden to allow some trackside noise to drift in.

My brother  who's  son Ashley works on Lewis's car, lives in Blakesley 4 mls from Silverstone  and we can do exactly the same 🤗

[-Error-]

On 10/23/2021 at 3:00 PM, dutchie01 said:

I think Schumacher was more all or nothing and Hamilton is probably the best all rounder, good at everything from wet to qualy to the race itself. What they both have in common is they drove/drive for a team that is totally dominant securing win after win.

Totally agree with part one, Hamilton used to be the most consistently performing driver, and the one thing that set him apart in all years was his ability to improve as the season goes on - this is the one thing for me that I'll remember him for. Many drivers, Vettel for example would peak mid-season and would struggle to keep the points coming after the summer break. Hamilton, even during the '16 season where he won the last four races, is incredible in keeping his momentum and focus until the end of the championship.

What I have to disagree with is the fact that they both drove for a "totally dominant" team during their WDC years. Lewis Hamilton, from his first outing on the track, has been driving a world championship contender. The McLaren he was in, of course whilst disqualified from constructors championship in 2007 came very close to the Ferrari of Kimi, who clenched the WDC that year. But then went on to marginally win the WDC in 2008, even then Felipe Massa would have easily won the championship had it not been due to his retirements or, in the least, his team's mistake at the Singapore GP. This is the one year where Lewis had won with not the fastest car but definitely a top runner. His Mercedes titles are very clearly due to the car.

Michael's fortune was quite a bit different, and very often he had to put a lot of work with the team in order to get the car to P1. He spent years at Benneton and Ferrari before claiming his titles. His 2000 title saw him retire in three races in a row. 2003, Kimi nearly managed to steal the WDC from him and BMW were a very strong car too. Yes, 2004 will go down in history of dominance, however it is very clear to me that Michael has played a crucial part of developing the cars to get them to there. Lewis had to just get the car across the finish line, Michael had to help his team get to that.

 

I have never been a fan of Lewis, his Ryvita personality changes every year. What I have come to respect and admire about him over the years is his efforts with the Hamilton Commission (although sceptical me sees that he started riding on the wave of popularity of BLM, wasn't ever feeling like doing anything until pressured by those around him in 2020), and his enduring performance. In any elite sport, and I think Tom Brady is a great example of that too, it takes absolutely everything to stay on top of your game for as long as these men have. Lewis' 15 years in the sport is something truly remarkable, but it's not been enough thus far to make me his fan.

What I will always disagree with is claiming Lewis is the greatest driver to have graced the paddock. He's up there, but far from 1^st. There have been many other drivers that have championed their peers with their performance. If we look at Lewis' 2009-2012 years he was found coming short of his teammates, something we haven't seen from the likes of Schumacher, Hakkinen or Jim Clark. Yes, he may be the cleanest multi WDC winner, but he's also the master of staying in the "grey area" where many of his wrongdoings go unnoticed because they don't include directly taking out his competition (Schumacher, Senna, Prost) or resorting to tactics such as Renault's Crashgate.

[dutchie01]

Interesting post Igor, so who if you have to mention some, are your most entertaining drivers?  Like Senna one side, Prost the other side?

Here are some of mine.

Hunt, Villeneuve, Verstappen, Piquet, Mansell, Senna, Schumacher, Norris.

the other side.

Lauda, Prost, Hamilton, Rosberg ( both), Bottas, Hill, Vettel, Raikkonen.

Some drivers want to win every duel, every corner and take the risk, some think, calculate and plan they journey in advance. Some are truly wild personailities living on the edge enjoying the high life, the danger, the lifestyle. Some seem to got there accidentaly are silent, have a family and but become champion nevertheless.

Nothing to do with talent, just how they are.

 

 

[-Error-]

Very good question, although I can only really recall drivers from 21st century. What I know of pre-2000's comes from literature or third person opinions, so I'll only include a handful.

Alonso, Schumacher, Ricciardo, Verstappen, Trulli, Sato, Pre-2009 Massa, Leclerc, Lauda and of course Senna.

Then the "reserved" ones:

Hakkinen, Hamilton, Raikkonen, Lauda (notice he's on both lists), N Rosberg, Sainz Jr, Norris, Barrichello, Button, Vettel, Post-2009 Massa.

[paulrnx]

My prediction for this weekend

1 Ver

2 Per

3 Ham

My hopes

1 Ham

2 Bot

3 Nor

[ColinBarber]

Quote

Get in there Lewis

 

[ALAW]

what a victory for lewis today the drive of his life got to be. So much against him by the things that happened as though they dont want him to win the title again. Come on Lewis

[paulrnx]

A fantastic drive indeed. And only a week to go until the next race. Can’t wait.

[ALAW]

I think 2 of the circuits favour the Mercs. 

[paulrnx]

7 hours ago, ALAW said:

I think 2 of the circuits favour the Mercs. 

Would appear so. There have been some anomalies this year mind so perhaps not as clear cut. Big weekend coming up. 

[dutchie01]

I guess with the rocket power of Lewis new fresh Mercedes engine he might take a fresh one every race drop 5 or 10 positions on the grid and still drive circles around the rest and win every race..