Fuel panic!

[Las Palmas]

8 hours ago, Malc1 said:

and we wonder why the Xis and Putins of this world are readily welcomed by their populations  ..........  so far anyway !

Malc

They are the same all over the world, with different words and different attitudes, but all crooks, or controled by crooks.

[toffee_pie]

It's not just EVs are expensive or impossible for people to buy in the first place, even making them seems problematic

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/business-manufacturing/more-arrival-job-cuts-uk-ev-start-hits-cash-crunch

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/business-finance-and-corporate/britishvolt-secures-funding-coming-weeks-investor-steps

 

 

 

 

 

[toffee_pie]

22 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

They are the same all over the world, with different words and different attitudes, but all crooks, or controled by crooks.

Someone on a forum raised a good point, why couldn't Australia host the WC, they have the stadiums and the infrastructure but they weren't bribing the right people the right amount of money.

[dutchie01]

24 minutes ago, toffee_pie said:

Someone on a forum raised a good point, why couldn't Australia host the WC, they have the stadiums and the infrastructure but they weren't bribing the right people the right amount of money.

Football has been highjacked by big money. It is held in mafia states ( ruzzia/quatar) and organised by the Mafia ( FIFA). Fifa dont pay taxes thank you, and all profit goes to them thank you, they decide what happens and when in the country organising the event, almost a state within a state only thing missing is a private army.

Middle east sheiks are buying clubs and players for fun. The amount of money going round is obscene

[toffee_pie]

1 minute ago, dutchie01 said:

Football has been highjacked by big money. It is held in mafia states ( ruzzia/quatar) and organised by the Mafia ( FIFA). Fifa dont pay taxes thank you, and all profit goes to them thank you, they decide what happens and when in the country organising the event, almost a state within a state only thing missing is a private army.

Middle east sheiks are buying clubs and players for fun. The amount of money going round is obscene

Politics is no different, it's just transparent to everyone what goes behind the scenes 

[toffee_pie]

Electric car owners will now have to pay road tax: Owners of emission-free vehicles will have to pay tax for the first time in bid to plug £7 billion shortfall....

Was it ever in doubt, so like I've been saying all along. scam. The entire point of electric cars is to get people off the road.

The energy crisis war, like covid more nonsense - governments going to town with subject matter experts they are paying off. 

 

 

 

[LenT]

2 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

 The entire point of electric cars is to get people off the road.

An interesting point, Eric.

So where do you think that people who are buying electric cars are driving their electric cars?

If the point is to get them off the road, then I don’t think it’s been very successful.

[Malc1]

and those with EVs will eventually be paying hugely more coz they are " captive "   🤣

Malc

[toffee_pie]

8 hours ago, LenT said:

An interesting point, Eric.

So where do you think that people who are buying electric cars are driving their electric cars?

If the point is to get them off the road, then I don’t think it’s been very successful.

No, I think we are being lied to.. again, and you are missing the point entirely - in 2030 who can afford electric cars? Certainly not low income workers who previously could get a cheap run about. That's the entire plan - get people off the road, and the people driving electric cars in 2030 will be under less control of that car than the government - remember what I said about electric cars easier to control. No, but do keep it in mind. 

Everything I say you disagree with, because you are spaced out from the very subject matter experts paid off. There's a cost of living crisis in case you weren't aware, people keeping an eye of the kettle. How do you think they can afford EVs? My wages are good, well above the national median but I'm not stupid enough to spend 400 quid of my monthly salary leasing out the useless Peugeot I called out before.

Even before the net zero came to be the disaster event wiping out humanity - most cars normal ones at that were on finance and they were far less expensive than electric cars.

Labour deputy leader Angela Rayner took out a £5,600 loan for the 'boob job'... If a politician can't afford 6 grand to keep her boobs upright what does it say about the average tax payer.

The gov are paying off eco nut cases to fuel the net zero hogwash, people like you believed in all the covid nonsense, the mutants, the climate change crisis and everything else on the BBC headlines. You believe electric cars are good for the planet also.

Remember, the next 'wave' is only a BBC breaking news headline away 

 

[LenT]

18 minutes ago, toffee_pie said:

Ho do you know it's not very successful?  

Because according to sales figures culled from the SMMT, the number of electric cars registered in the UK – as of the end of July 2022 - were more than 930,000 plug-in vehicles with nearly 520,000 BEVs and 405,000 PHEVs registered. They state that last year saw the biggest annual increase in the number of registrations, with more than 305,000 electric vehicles registered showing a growth of 74% on 2020. 130,000 additional plug-in vehicles were sold in 2021 vs the number sold in 2020.

Personally, I have no need or interest in buying an EV, but sales growth indicates that your claim that 'The entire point of electric cars is to get people off the road.' - whatever it may be based on - is clearly not happening.

My own feeling is that the growth of the number of EVs appearing on our roads will be determined by the usual marketing factors:  Availability of charging points, especially in new builds; advances in Battery technology, relative reduction in car costs as unit production increases and a growing appreciation of a quieter, fume-free form of transport by a younger generation.

The most significant limiting factor that I can see is the generation of sufficient electricity!  It was, I believe, Tony Blairs' administration that cancelled the construction of new nuclear power stations on the basis that it would take about 15 years for them to come on stream.  Or about now, in fact!

I have had the opportunity to point out to our local MP that Rolls-Royce has the means to solve this problem.  They have designed small-scale nuclear reactors with which to supply a fifth of the UK's total electricity capacity to homes across England and Wales by the end of the decade.

More information on the EV market and vehicles can be read here:

https://nextgreencar.com/electric-cars/statistics/

 

[Las Palmas]

Accounting for the amount of CO2 produced during solar panel manufacturing, solar panels generate, in effect, around 50 g of CO2 per kilowatt hour during their initial years of operation. This is about 20 times less than the carbon output of coal-powered electricity sources.

That is a good thing. Now many of us think that being dependant on Russian gas and oil is pretty stupid, but how many of us know that China is making most of the solar cells (maybe or likely by forced labour), so how many think that being dependant on China is good?

 

Electric cars are moved by lithium batteries and their production entails high CO2 emissions. The cost of lithium batteries is around 73 kg CO2-equivalent/kWh (Figure 1). Production of a single Battery with a range of 40 kWh (e.g. Nissan Leaf) and 100 kWh (e.g. Tesla) emit 2920 kg and 7300 kg of CO2, respectively. A typical electric car Battery has: 25 pounds of lithium 60 pounds of nickel 44 pounds of manganese 30 pounds cobalt 200 pounds of copper 400 pounds of aluminium, steel, and plastic The first 4 ingredients are from limited sources and will continue to rise in cost.

 

Here we have 2 no good things collected: Bad for the environment and mostly manufactured in China.

How stupid are we?

 

[toffee_pie]

3 hours ago, LenT said:

Because according to sales figures culled from the SMMT, the number of electric cars registered in the UK – as of the end of July 2022 - were more than 930,000 plug-in vehicles with nearly 520,000 BEVs and 405,000 PHEVs registered. They state that last year saw the biggest annual increase in the number of registrations, with more than 305,000 electric vehicles registered showing a growth of 74% on 2020. 130,000 additional plug-in vehicles were sold in 2021 vs the number sold in 2020.

Personally, I have no need or interest in buying an EV, but sales growth indicates that your claim that 'The entire point of electric cars is to get people off the road.' - whatever it may be based on - is clearly not happening.

My own feeling is that the growth of the number of EVs appearing on our roads will be determined by the usual marketing factors:  Availability of charging points, especially in new builds; advances in battery technology, relative reduction in car costs as unit production increases and a growing appreciation of a quieter, fume-free form of transport by a younger generation.

The most significant limiting factor that I can see is the generation of sufficient electricity!  It was, I believe, Tony Blairs' administration that cancelled the construction of new nuclear power stations on the basis that it would take about 15 years for them to come on stream.  Or about now, in fact!

I have had the opportunity to point out to our local MP that Rolls-Royce has the means to solve this problem.  They have designed small-scale nuclear reactors with which to supply a fifth of the UK's total electricity capacity to homes across England and Wales by the end of the decade.

More information on the EV market and vehicles can be read here:

https://nextgreencar.com/electric-cars/statistics/

 

I am looking at the year 2030, remember, Agenda 21/30 (look it up)

I dont need to see what next green car are saying, of course people are buying them - The UK has 70 million peple or so but most people are buying them for the same reason they got 3 jabs to go to a different country on a holiday - the government told them so - like I said, the average wage in the UK is  relatively poor and every single EV car is on finance, every one - so call back in 2030 and see how them ownership figures are.

The brainwashing on EVs is so complete people think they are saving money on Electric Cars and the monthly payments seemingly forgotten about.

Do you recall a referendun on Electric Cars to take over reliable combustion engines - themselves responsible for < 15% of global greenhous gas emissions? no - me neither, a 2 minute speech from Boris Johnson done the trick, no need to involve pesky tax payers, the government are in control and will be in 2030.

The only positive about EVs I can see is the outside lane of the motorway will be free.

[toffee_pie]

1 hour ago, Las Palmas said:

Accounting for the amount of CO2 produced during solar panel manufacturing, solar panels generate, in effect, around 50 g of CO2 per kilowatt hour during their initial years of operation. This is about 20 times less than the carbon output of coal-powered electricity sources.

That is a good thing. Now many of us think that being dependant on Russian gas and oil is pretty stupid, but how many of us know that China is making most of the solar cells (maybe or likely by forced labour), so how many think that being dependant on China is good?

 

Electric cars are moved by lithium batteries and their production entails high CO2 emissions. The cost of lithium batteries is around 73 kg CO2-equivalent/kWh (Figure 1). Production of a single battery with a range of 40 kWh (e.g. Nissan Leaf) and 100 kWh (e.g. Tesla) emit 2920 kg and 7300 kg of CO2, respectively. A typical electric car battery has: 25 pounds of lithium 60 pounds of nickel 44 pounds of manganese 30 pounds cobalt 200 pounds of copper 400 pounds of aluminium, steel, and plastic The first 4 ingredients are from limited sources and will continue to rise in cost.

 

Here we have 2 no good things collected: Bad for the environment and mostly manufactured in China.

How stupid are we?

 

I went to the trouble of posting a spreadsheet on Battery usage on EVs cars right up to the year 2030 - its absolutely off the scale - I mean you are talking figures that will surely eclipse what we can actually produce from natural resources itself - I am not a 'expert' paid off or otherwsie so my facts dont count, despite the fact I am an established Engineer

The very fact batteries are charged by fossil fuel itself is like a big huge - wtf -

But you cant get through LenT and a few others on here.

I am glad I went for a drive in that Peugeot e 208, it made the decision not to get a Electric Car (not that I ever would) that more easy and keep my glorious sounding Subaru

 

[Mr Vlad]

Tesco E5 is now only 7p dearer a litre than E10. Thought I'd get back to fuel lol

[toffee_pie]

26 minutes ago, Mr Vlad said:

Tesco E5 is now only 7p dearer a litre than E10. Thought I'd get back to fuel lol

Im still good for a refill on my 14 year old 6 cylinder dinosaur, half a tank to go - maybe I should syphon fuel out and imagine I own a EV

[Bluemarlin]

7 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

No, I think we are being lied to.. again, and you are missing the point entirely - in 2030 who can afford electric cars? Certainly not low income workers who previously could get a cheap run about. That's the entire plan - get people off the road, and the people driving electric cars in 2030 will be under less control of that car than the government - remember what I said about electric cars easier to control. No, but do keep it in mind.

In 2030 the people who can afford new EVs will be the same people who can afford new ICE cars today, ie the higher and middle earners. Low income workers will buy older, used vehicles, like they do today.

I am curious though as to what conspiracy you have regarding your assumption that ICE cars will mysteriously vanish from the planet in 2030, and that low income workers will have no choice but to buy new EVs or go without.

Low income workers traditionally buy older cars, mostly ICE, and they will still be around in 2030, and for quite some time after. My guess is that in 2030 most people will want an EV and so, with the declining popularity of ICE vehicles, the market will be awash with used ones at cheap prices, and low income workers will be spoilt for choice for a cheap runabout. So, contrary to your strange claims, rather than car ownership being forcibly reduced, it will likely remain the same, or might even increase.

[Bluemarlin]

8 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

Labour deputy leader Angela Rayner took out a £5,600 loan for the 'boob job'... If a politician can't afford 6 grand to keep her boobs upright what does it say about the average tax payer.
 

You seem to specialize in misrepresenting facts in order to try and prop up a weak case.

For the record, Angela Rayner borrowed £5,600 for a boob job at the age of 30, five years before she became an MP. Prior to that she was a care worker and a union rep, who was brought up on a council estate.

I have no idea what point you're trying to make, and how it relates to the affordability of electric vehicles, unless new boobs will be a requirement before you're allowed to own one. Perhaps the illuminati intend to cut the cost of EVs by removing air bags 🙂

[Moleman]

4 minutes ago, Bluemarlin said:

 

I have no idea what point you're trying to make, and how it relates to the affordability of electric vehicles, unless new boobs will be a requirement before you're allowed to own one. Perhaps the illuminati intend to cut the cost of EVs by removing air bags 🙂

Interesting concept, discuss further.

[Phil xxkr]

9 minutes ago, Moleman said:

Interesting concept, discuss further.

Might we extend it to cover all windbags 🤔😊

[toffee_pie]

1 hour ago, Bluemarlin said:

Low income workers will buy older, used vehicles, like they do today.

It will be difficult, no? considering they wont be made any more and unless you have used cars that are well maintained most will be junk - BMWs etc...🥲

And whats stopping government banning ICE cars too with VED rates etc? My Subaru is £600+ a year and its only 2022 -- who can afford to run a ICE car in 2030 and Why would you spend £40-60 - 100k on a EV when a petrol car can be got for a fraction of the cost, will last for far longer on fuel and wont be as troublesome to own - ie no need to charge it up every day 

Oh wait, they are good for the environment - silly me

Unless you are brainwashed on EVs from experts they dont make much sense

44 minutes ago, Bluemarlin said:

You seem to specialize in misrepresenting facts in order to try and prop up a weak case.

For the record, Angela Rayner borrowed £5,600 for a boob job at the age of 30, five years before she became an MP. Prior to that she was a care worker and a union rep, who was brought up on a council estate.

I have no idea what point you're trying to make, and how it relates to the affordability of electric vehicles, unless new boobs will be a requirement before you're allowed to own one. Perhaps the illuminati intend to cut the cost of EVs by removing air bags 🙂

The point I am making is no body can like, you know afford electric cars. You love an argument, I get that but please call back in 2030 - we will see who is right.  Everything from the government is BS - there is no nice way to put it but you always - always get people who disagree that anything is untoward. If governments can get away with covid which they have then can do anything - the next plan is social credit, you should probably google it as its going to be a hot topic in years to come. In one word social credit is control. There you go, nice and easy - no need to use google now.

[Boxbrownie]

9 hours ago, Malc1 said:

and those with EVs will eventually be paying hugely more coz they are " captive "   🤣

Malc

Probably after they ban big V8 petrol vehicles completely 🤣

[toffee_pie]

2 hours ago, Boxbrownie said:

Probably after they ban big V8 petrol vehicles completely 🤣

Where there's a will, there's a way

Gov's lied about Covid, Lied about Electric Cars - lied about evey friggin thing but some cannot accept it

How did they lie about covid? they never said we would need 1,2,3,4,5 jabs - they never said we would need all then jabs to travel to a country for a vacation - its became pretty obvious as time went on it was a bit odd - Pfizer have openly said vaccines do not prevent tranmission or prevent you from getting covid - they are still in trial phase also until January '23. Thousands of monthly excess deaths on the ONS not dicsussed - post mass vaccination programme

** (Illegal Parties during lockdown, forgot about these but lets keep it quiet, it will all be forgotten)

Lied about Electric cars - cleaner for the environment? I dont think so, what with half tonne lithium batteries lurking underneath - cheaper to run than a petrol car? really? Electric has gone up, monthly costs are £300-1000+ depending on what you want -- factor inc the VED also - Unless you are the lucky one who finds a free EV on your driveway and monthly costs are removed from TCO.

Should I post another image of a brown envelope? I think we get the point

 

[Boxbrownie]

6 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

Accounting for the amount of CO2 produced during solar panel manufacturing, solar panels generate, in effect, around 50 g of CO2 per kilowatt hour during their initial years of operation. This is about 20 times less than the carbon output of coal-powered electricity sources.

That is a good thing. Now many of us think that being dependant on Russian gas and oil is pretty stupid, but how many of us know that China is making most of the solar cells (maybe or likely by forced labour), so how many think that being dependant on China is good?

 

Electric cars are moved by lithium batteries and their production entails high CO2 emissions. The cost of lithium batteries is around 73 kg CO2-equivalent/kWh (Figure 1). Production of a single battery with a range of 40 kWh (e.g. Nissan Leaf) and 100 kWh (e.g. Tesla) emit 2920 kg and 7300 kg of CO2, respectively. A typical electric car battery has: 25 pounds of lithium 60 pounds of nickel 44 pounds of manganese 30 pounds cobalt 200 pounds of copper 400 pounds of aluminium, steel, and plastic The first 4 ingredients are from limited sources and will continue to rise in cost.

 

Here we have 2 no good things collected: Bad for the environment and mostly manufactured in China.

How stupid are we?

 

🥱

[toffee_pie]

Electric Cars are moving away from the combustion phase into Electronics, what does that mean - it means pretty bad news for the environment

In 2020, the Taiwanese semiconductor TSMC consumed almost 17 thousand gigawatt-hours of energy alone - EVs are not totally discrete semiconductors but this is the direction they are heading - what about cars sold? In 2018, around 86 million cars were sold in leading nations.

Using this knowledge we can see the volume of Electronic raw materials and Batteries, half a tonne per car or such are heading in a very un-environmentally friendly direction and I have not even factored in the fossil fuel needed to charge up EVs. 

In other words - a lie

[First_Lexus]

12 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

Gov's lied about Covid, Lied about Electric Cars - lied about evey friggin thing but some cannot accept it

How did they lie about covid? they never said we would need 1,2,3,4,5 jabs - they never said we would need all then jabs to travel to a country for a vacation - its became pretty obvious as time went on it was a bit odd - Pfizer have openly said vaccines do not prevent tranmission or prevent you from getting covid - they are still in trial phase also until January '23. Thousands of monthly excess deaths on the ONS not dicsussed - post mass vaccination programme

** (Illegal Parties during lockdown, forgot about these but lets keep it quiet, it will all be forgotten)

From my perspective, there is a big difference between ‘a lie’ and decisions that are made because of changing information, or policy decisions made in order to change behaviour.  A ‘lie’ implies knowing deception, and I think to believe that about the pandemic is fanciful (at best, and being charitable).

‘COVID’ was a new variant of an existing Coronavirus. My understanding (and I’m not a virologist) is that part of the reason a vaccine was available so quickly was the simple fact that there were existing vaccines that could act as a base for it. Governments didn’t know that multiple boosters would be needed, because the vaccine effectiveness and how long protection would last wasn’t known. I think any rational person would be able to see that without characterising it as ‘a lie.’

Moving to the lockdown parties at Westminster, yes, they were clearly unwise. However, to make a link that says (in essence) that they were holding those parties because the whole pandemic was ‘a lie’ or that restrictions weren’t needed seems to me similarly irrational.

Excess deaths? Nobody, to my knowledge, has ever said a vaccine would prevent some people from dying from COVID (or any other disease). Rather the communication to population has been very clear - getting the vaccine, “…reduces your chance of severe disease or death.” Again, that seems clear to me.

I’ve said many times on this forum that an EV is not for me currently, but what exactly characterises them as ‘a lie?’ Unless you are a total climate change sceptic and deny it exists, it (again) seems clear to me that we need to move away from burning fossil fuels. We aren’t there yet, and yes there is environmental damage cause by the production of EVs, and indeed caused by ALL manufacturing of anything and everything. But - and it’s a big but - we do need to move in a direction that reduces carbon emissions. EVs may be a small part of that and  wider use of renewable energy will be a bigger part. EVs may not be the final answer, but they are a step in the right direction, certainly in terms of air quality. Are they ‘a lie’ though? I can’t see how. Governments are enacting policy, as they always have, in order to encourage people to make different choices for the good of all based on the beliefs of those currently in Government. 

In terms of VED for EVs, yes that’s coming. It’s inevitable. Again, I can’t see how that is ‘a lie.’ As revenue from fossil fuel powered vehicles declines, Government needs to replace that lost revenue. To my knowledge they never said EVs would be VED free forever.