Fuel panic!

[First_Lexus]

On 9/10/2022 at 5:28 PM, wharfhouse said:

That's interesting - might renew my Costco membership if they do! 

I can confirm they are indeed building a filling station next to the existing store in Reading - they’re using the front part of the car park.

Went to the store this morning. Plenty of building work underway with a sign noting that they’re constructing said filling station. Good news!

[toffee_pie]

Costco at the weekend, £1.589/L for E5, cheapest I have had for some time. its 97 RON I think but good enough

[Malc]

did I say at one of my local Sainsbury's the other day, Hempstead Valley Kent,  the E10 was a mere 156.9p   ...  plus Nectar points too of course .......  to add to your BA Amex Avios points if you use them !

Malc

[Mr Vlad]

 

I've just watched this. Quite interesting. Some have mentioned about fast charging etc. Watch this then.

[toffee_pie]

As with any new tech I would err on the safe side and see how it fares rather than diving in, espeically coming from China

[Malc]

just reading last night that EV charging is now going to cost £1 a KWh is it   ?  as opposed to what it was when all this EV economic running stuff started at 16p a unit  ( was it  ) ?

I'd now be panicking if I had an EV to charge and run 

Malc

[wharfhouse]

2 minutes ago, Malc said:

just reading last night that EV charging is now going to cost £1 a KWh is it   ?  as opposed to what it was when all this EV economic running stuff started at 16p a unit  ( was it  ) ?

I'd now be panicking if I had an EV to charge and run 

Malc

Yes, now costs more per mile to run EV over petrol/diesel if you rely on paid for charging stations like at the service stations - still cheaper (for now) to charge at home than petrol / diesel but for those of us who do relatively long journeys it doesn't make so attractive anymore...

[Bluemarlin]

Apparently it's still free at some supermarkets. I'm waiting for them to offer free petrol too 🙂

[Boxbrownie]

48 minutes ago, Malc said:

just reading last night that EV charging is now going to cost £1 a KWh is it   ?  as opposed to what it was when all this EV economic running stuff started at 16p a unit  ( was it  ) ?

I'd now be panicking if I had an EV to charge and run 

Malc

Still costs us just 28.4p KWh and will do until next August.

And there are hundreds of thousands of EV drivers who are on EV overnight rates which are from 7.5p to about 11p KWh……we couldn’t be arsed with all that.

 

If you predominately charge using rapid chargers then the cost will be approx 80p KWh in the future (presently around 55-66p) but then if using those your probably a business user and have already taken advantage of the BIK and other tax advantages through a company, so moaning about paying a bit more for fuel is tbh a bit crass.

[Las Palmas]

44 minutes ago, wharfhouse said:

Yes, now costs more per mile to run EV over petrol/diesel if you rely on paid for charging stations like at the service stations - still cheaper (for now) to charge at home than petrol / diesel but for those of us who do relatively long journeys it doesn't make so attractive anymore...

Like first time I mentioned the usefulness of EV cars: Only a person that own his own solar cells will benefit from having a fully electric or hybrid plug-in car.

A friend of mine has a plug-in MG (made in China or Japan no longer UK) and pay nothing for driving it. Only use it to drive the distance the plug-in Battery can deliver power. For longer tours has a Land-Cruiser.

For the poor that bought a fully EV when charging was free (in supermarkets) it must be painful.

Super Shell is now 1.62€ here.

[wharfhouse]

8 minutes ago, Boxbrownie said:

Still costs us just 28.4p KWh and will do until next August.

And there are hundreds of thousands of EV drivers who are on EV overnight rates which are from 7.5p to about 11p KWh……we couldn’t be arsed with all that.

 

If you predominately charge using rapid chargers then the cost will be approx 80p KWh in the future (presently around 55-66p) but then if using those your probably a business user and have already taken advantage of the BIK and other tax advantages through a company, so moaning about paying a bit more for fuel is tbh a bit crass.

There are plenty of us like myself who are small businesses that don't run a "company" car (i.e. paid by the company and pay BIK) but simply claim the pence per mile on a private car. As I could be travelling anywhere in the country then there is a good chance that I would need to do a rapid charge at a service station or similar whilst away and so the overall cost per mile of running an EV would not be so far away from running the IS 300h. As a small business I stay overnight at budget inns and again very, very few of these have any charging capability - and when they do finally invest I wonder how much they will be charging to recoup those costs?

[dutchie01]

I think that Chinese car manufacturers are heavily underestimated. Enthusiasts visiting an automobile forum like us can still be snobby about " The Chinese" but boy did they come a long way. When was it, maybe 10/15 years ago when landwind was the first to try and got zero stars at the crash tests? And now the various makes are arriving like a steamroller on our markets. Traditional car companies will be in for a rough ride. As example across the street where i have my office is a large Peugeot dealer, they moved out and guess what moves in? BYD or better known as Build Your Dreams https://bydeurope.com. I am convinved the vast majority of car buyers don't care too much what they drive. Friends of us bough an electric MG a year ago. Chinese car, in my idea horribly looking proportions wrong tiny Battery but guess what it was cheap and they are very happy indeed! 

[wharfhouse]

30 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

I think that Chinese car manufacturers are heavily underestimated. Enthusiasts visiting an automobile forum like us can still be snobby about " The Chinese" but boy did they come a long way. When was it, maybe 10/15 years ago when landwind was the first to try and got zero stars at the crash tests? And now the various makes are arriving like a steamroller on our markets. Traditional car companies will be in for a rough ride. As example across the street where i have my office is a large Peugeot dealer, they moved out and guess what moves in? BYD or better known as Build Your Dreams https://bydeurope.com. I am convinved the vast majority of car buyers don't care too much what they drive. Friends of us bough an electric MG a year ago. Chinese car, in my idea horribly looking proportions wrong tiny battery but guess what it was cheap and they are very happy indeed! 

Yes, I'm old enough to remember when Japanese cars were the joke, then the Korean Cars, now look at them both... I am sure Chinese cars will become very common in the next decade or two. To reinforce what you say, having always bought what I deemed "high quality" audio and TV equipment I've just bought a new TV and went with a now well-known Chinese one as for various reasons I didn't to spend a lot at this time and I have to say I am delighted - for the price I can't fault it! When I look at my daughter (mid-20 year old) and her generation they don't have the same "hang-ups" as some of us older ones do buying Chinese tech.

[First_Lexus]

I’ve looked at the MG electric options, and they are pretty good from what I’ve seen, especially given the price. I know somebody who had an MG5 estate electric for three months (short term lease while waiting for their own new car) and they were mightily impressed - to the point they wondered why they were spending almost three times as much on their ACTUAL new car…😆

[Mr Vlad]

I've liked the look of the MG5 ever since it came out. More so now the MG4 which looks outstanding. And to think there's going to be a 450bhp version. Now that may sway me to go electric But with the price it costs to charge an EV going through the roof and its been shown that its cheaper to run a BMW 320d than a tesla model 3. When I learned that my jaw almost hit the floor. Looks like I'll be holding on to my is250 for quite a long time.

[dutchie01]

Its not that black and white as the press wants you to believe. In charging its important to understand that unlike with petrolstations that more or less have a comparable price that is not the case with EV charging. 

There are huge differences. The faster you charge the more expensive it gets. 350KW chargers along the highway are expensive and that is likely the price the press uses. Dont know prices in the UK but in Holland the most expensive is around 0.75/kwh to 0.10/kwh for a 11kw charger. I use the latter in front of my office and can run 70 km on a full charge which costs some 1.70 euro. 

Still way cheaper than petrol i think.

[Phil xxkr]

21 hours ago, wharfhouse said:

Yes, I'm old enough to remember when Japanese cars were the joke, then the Korean Cars, now look at them both... I am sure Chinese cars will become very common in the next decade or two. To reinforce what you say, having always bought what I deemed "high quality" audio and TV equipment I've just bought a new TV and went with a now well-known Chinese one as for various reasons I didn't to spend a lot at this time and I have to say I am delighted - for the price I can't fault it! When I look at my daughter (mid-20 year old) and her generation they don't have the same "hang-ups" as some of us older ones do buying Chinese tech.

It's amazing how seductive a low price can be isn't it? But that's a consequence of intolerable working conditions for the Chinese people. As to technical capabilities if it wasn't for wholesale theft of Western IP they would still be under sail power. And you mention technology Phil, just ask yourself why certain of their firms are banned from comms infrastructure? Oh, by the way they also make smartphones 🤔

[Malc]

18 minutes ago, Phil xxkr said:

they would still be under sail power.

the ultimate in renewables then  .....  to be commended ......  bring on the Dutch Windmills methinks ......  promote the making of bread flour with a new raft of windmills in the UK ..  spread all over the country .........  giving work to the skilled carpenters and flour millers in our Society ......  a new raft of educational skills to be put forward by, say, the Prince's Trust  ( is it still to be called that ? ) 

 

Malc

[Boxbrownie]

On 9/16/2022 at 10:49 AM, wharfhouse said:

There are plenty of us like myself who are small businesses that don't run a "company" car (i.e. paid by the company and pay BIK) but simply claim the pence per mile on a private car. As I could be travelling anywhere in the country then there is a good chance that I would need to do a rapid charge at a service station or similar whilst away and so the overall cost per mile of running an EV would not be so far away from running the IS 300h. As a small business I stay overnight at budget inns and again very, very few of these have any charging capability - and when they do finally invest I wonder how much they will be charging to recoup those costs?

But you haven’t bought a £80-120K EV like a Tesla or Merc to take advantage of the tax, there are plenty of businesses that do, you’re not their target market.

 

We run a small business as well, very small…..

 

People still cannot get this thing about everyone that bought an EV bought it to save money, when an EV might cost 30% more than an equivalent ICE how long do you think the ROI might be? 🤔

 

Many people buy EVs because they like the way they drive and the actual car, once you get this out of your head then the fuel cost issue is irrelevant, just like some buy a massive V8 petrol because they like the car, the money for fuel is irrelevant.

 

If money is that tight you need an electric bike 🤣

 

[First_Lexus]

https://www.ey.com/en_uk/news/2022/06/tipping-point-reached-as-more-nearly-half-of-uk-car-buyers-seek-electric-vehicle

This was from the Summer. No great surprises here from my perspective. Interesting all the same the main reasons why people are considering the switch.

[Mr Vlad]

Bernard. I very rarely read anything as its not been my bag for decades. The Info I posted about it being cheaper to run a diesel to an EV came from a trusted poster on YouTube. Modern Heroes. He's totally For EV cars and has had them a while. Please do look him up. He posts regularly and he's not paid to say things like other magazines and YouTube posters that have celebrity's on. 

Of course it's way cheaper to charge at home or a supermarket but isn't the point now about cost of speed to charge!

[ColinBarber]

13 minutes ago, Mr Vlad said:

Of course it's way cheaper to charge at home or a supermarket but isn't the point now about cost of speed to charge!

It isn't one or the other but a mixture. You would charge at home before leaving, top up at speed and return near empty to charge back up again overnight. If you were just using high speed public chargers it would be expensive, but most people don't.

[wharfhouse]

2 hours ago, Phil xxkr said:

It's amazing how seductive a low price can be isn't it? But that's a consequence of intolerable working conditions for the Chinese people. As to technical capabilities if it wasn't for wholesale theft of Western IP they would still be under sail power. And you mention technology Phil, just ask yourself why certain of their firms are banned from comms infrastructure? Oh, by the way they also make smartphones 🤔

Yes you are if course right with some of those comments and it does bother me too. However the growth that is taking place is now unstoppable and we can continue to try and make changes through the levers we have in the west - some of the same can be said of other countries that have developed too (including Japan, Korea etc) but over time conditions and views changed. I'm not dismissing what you raise and there are certainly some deep issues in China but I'm also not sure what the answer is? 

[wharfhouse]

1 hour ago, Boxbrownie said:

But you haven’t bought a £80-120K EV like a Tesla or Merc to take advantage of the tax, there are plenty of businesses that do, you’re not their target market.

 

We run a small business as well, very small…..

 

People still cannot get this thing about everyone that bought an EV bought it to save money, when an EV might cost 30% more than an equivalent ICE how long do you think the ROI might be? 🤔

 

Many people buy EVs because they like the way they drive and the actual car, once you get this out of your head then the fuel cost issue is irrelevant, just like some buy a massive V8 petrol because they like the car, the money for fuel is irrelevant.

 

If money is that tight you need an electric bike 🤣

 

Everyone to their own - I wouldn't criticise any of the reasons people buy cars - I've made many reasons to myself why I probably spent too much money in the past... 

[Mr Vlad]

Quite right Colin. I didn't think of home charging. However I did mention home and supermarket charging being cheaper. Again However I wonder what percentage of EV owners have a home charger. I'm betting its less than 50%. 

It makes perfect sense for me to have an EV. But for one I don't have a home charger. 2 it would cost a good couple of grand to get one installed close to where my car is parked (on a drive at bottom of a small 25 cubic metre garden other side of a fence). 3 I'm picky about cars and there's only a few I'd consider and they're expensive. Probably around 400 quid a month. 

So basically and for me personally it's Way cheaper to drive my is250. I'd even go as far to say it'd be also cheaper to own an ISF overall and over a 5 year period. 

People have gone to EV for various reasons and that's their choice. I'm not knocking them.

Unfortunately those with EV cars have fallen for the greater con. I've been saying that for years.