Fuel panic!

Malc · August 3, 2022

7 hours ago, Bluemarlin said:

It would be pretty stupid not to.

well, there you have summed up very simply what our politicians are all about ( in general ) ........... pretty stupid :wink3:

I was reading that Germany has said quite emphatically that they will not abide by the EU rules on banning petrol / diesel new sales from 2030 :whistling:

So we go to Germany, buy our brand new cars and simply drive them in the UK ..... ok ?

Malc

toffee_pie · August 3, 2022

7 hours ago, Bluemarlin said:

I see. So if they say something that can be misrepresented, or taken out of context, and spun into an evil agenda, then it's gospel. But if they say something good, they're lying.

I guess then if you apply that kind of thinking to everything, then everything's a conspiracy theory 🙂

There is a very good reaason the WEF meetings were shrouded in secrecy, its not like the Times and BBC were shouting from the roof tops about this stuff - but no thats not setting off alarm bellls either is it because you and others on here never ask questions so will never be convinced on anything other than what they are told by news media and governments and everything else is a lying conspiracy - so you will always be ..sheep, I think is the word.

toffee_pie · August 3, 2022

7 hours ago, Bluemarlin said:

Yes, new combustion engines will be banned from 2030. That wasn't the point though. You stated that governments had convinced manufacturers to ditch combustion engines in favour of EV's, and I merely pointed out that they clearly haven't convinced one the largest manufacturers with regards to petrol hybrids.

That said, if it's government policy to switch from combustion engines to EV's then of course they'd meet with the manufacturers to discuss the logistics. It would be pretty stupid not to.

You cannnot get through to people like you, do you know how much global pollution is attributed to the automobile? you dont - I know you dont because the BBC are not telling you this so I will - its around 10% give or take so you have a whole series of industries and sources for greenhouse gases, that 10% is globally -- the UK contribution is pretty much neligible, sorry to bring bad conspiracy news.

Now in this context banning combustion cars makes no sense whatsoever, nada, zilch. They are reliable and people can fix them and afford them - hence my original question which of course you misunderstood as in 2030 it makes perfect sense to be driving EVs, thats what you are told so you will oblige.

Bluemarlin · August 3, 2022

32 minutes ago, Malc said:

well, there you have summed up very simply what our politicians are all about ( in general ) ........... pretty stupid

I was reading that Germany has said quite emphatically that they will not abide by the EU rules on banning petrol / diesel new sales from 2030

So we go to Germany, buy our brand new cars and simply drive them in the UK ..... ok ?

Malc

Very true Malcolm. More often than not it's about incompetence more than it is cunning plan.

I believe so (although I think the EU target is 2035), along with a handful of other EU countries who are seeking to delay it.

Good plan, although I don't know what the position on imports would be post Brexit. Maybe doable but expensive.

Bluemarlin · August 3, 2022

35 minutes ago, toffee_pie said:

There is a very good reaason the WEF meetings were shrouded in secrecy, its not like the Times and BBC were shouting from the roof tops about this stuff - but no thats not setting off alarm bellls either is it because you and others on here never ask questions so will never be convinced on anything other than what they are told by news media and governments and everything else is a lying conspiracy - so you will always be ..sheep, I think is the word.

As far as I'm aware their agenda is made public. The news media don't give it much coverage because people seem more interested in civil cases between celebrities and footballers wives.

I take your point though Eric, but do you not think it equally sheepish to believe conspiracy theories without proof, many of which can be debunked with a cursory Google search?

Questioning is fine, but drawing conclusions without sufficient evidence to support them, not so much, and is little more than a matter of belief or personal preference.

It may surprise you to know that I agree that some politicians are corrrupt, and that I do question things. I just try to be careful that I don't allow my own feelings/preferences to override the need for some proof.

toffee_pie · August 3, 2022

40 minutes ago, Bluemarlin said:

As far as I'm aware their agenda is made public. The news media don't give it much coverage because people seem more interested in civil cases between celebrities and footballers wives.

I take your point though Eric, but do you not think it equally sheepish to believe conspiracy theories without proof, many of which can be debunked with a cursory Google search?

Questioning is fine, but drawing conclusions without sufficient evidence to support them, not so much, and is little more than a matter of belief or personal preference.

It may surprise you to know that I agree that some politicians are corrrupt, and that I do question things. I just try to be careful that I don't allow my own feelings/preferences to override the need for some proof.

So you think everything going on in the world in the last 4 odd years is perfectly normal? Call me a conspiracy theorist but there's too much going on for it to be a coincidence.

Electric cars are not beneficial for the environment but very beneficial for governments, my bet is that in 2030 everyone will be asking questions on how it has come to this, we probably will have a central currency in the Western world too. Everything that's been in development since the meeting in Brazil, and no these meetings certainly were not made into widespread news coverage, considering the ramifications I think you should agree that they should have, no? But it's good that you dived into this a bit more however and found out about the WEF and the agenda for 2030, if you keep it up you are likely to get more surprises, like finding out greenhouse gas emissions from automobiles alone or all the terrible COVID articles kept out of the public eye from the BBC

toffee_pie · August 3, 2022

33 minutes ago, Bluemarlin said:

Questioning is fine, but drawing conclusions without sufficient evidence to support them, not so much, and is little more than a matter of belief or personal preference.

There is ample evidence out there, it's just you won't find it on the BBC. This relates to COVID, electric cars, climate change.

But you won't be convinced, resistance is futile.

dutchie01 · August 3, 2022

2035 is set as goal to ban combustion engines from the showrooms, so you cannot buy new cars from that moment. Some countries have pulled that forward to 2030. Its now 2022 and with my age it means i can drive a gas guzzling polluting V8 or stinking old 4 cylinder diesel until my last moment, no problem ! Will i? No as i like driving an electric vehicle, the silence, torque, lack of vibrations not needing to go to a petrol station, no smell.

Edited August 5, 2022 by ColinBarber

Malc · August 3, 2022

1 hour ago, Bluemarlin said:

the position on imports

why go thru' the hassle of import ? just drive it in the UK maybe ?

I'm sure insurers will cotton on to find methodolgy to insure your car here ok :wink3:

Malc

Malc · August 3, 2022

1 hour ago, toffee_pie said:

we probably will have a central currency in the Western world too.

China holds more US$ than even the USA outside of ..... the USA, let alone other holders of the greenbacks ..

the other " western " currencies are just " nice to know "

nah.......... the banks won't be able to rip-off holidaymakers and the like with excessive exchange rate profits .... c'mon, it's a huge source of income for someone :whistling:

Malc

Boxbrownie · August 3, 2022

12 hours ago, Bluemarlin said:

Except governments haven't convinced auto manufacturers to dump combustion engines (at least not hybrid ones anyway) in favour of EV's.

Just the other day Toyota have said that they'll pull out of the UK if the government bans the sales of hybrid cars from 2030.

https://www.cityam.com/toyota-to-leave-uk-if-government-bans-hybrids/

The most simple question should have been "is such a claim true", and a quick Google search suggests not.

If you remember some auto manufacturers said that about Brexit as well.

Boxbrownie · August 3, 2022

34 minutes ago, Malc said:

why go thru' the hassle of import ? just drive it in the UK maybe ?

I'm sure insurers will cotton on to find methodolgy to insure your car here ok

Malc

Not that simple, well not sure it is….back in the early eighties my best mate was working in France weld testing on oil rigs, plenty of money so he went to (if I remember correctly) Norway and bought a BMW 3 series cabriolet brand new as it was for export the tax was crazy cheap, he used it in France for a year then his contract ended so brought it home until he found out there was a time limit he could keep it on the road without re-registering it and paying the import taxes, he tucked it away in his Dads garage on Foulness Island as it was remote and mostly restricted to the public (his Dad was a scientist on weapons) and it stayed there while he looked for another contract, it didn’t work as his Dad was mowing the lawn one day with the garage doors open and who should drive by but good old HMRC officers doing a security sweep (it was a popular place for drugs landings being remote) , he had to pay the import duties and a massive fine, and then they seized the vehicle until he exported it back to France. He sold it unsurprisingly.

Malc · August 3, 2022

14 minutes ago, Boxbrownie said:

Not that simple, well not sure it is…

I s'pose now we're out of the EU there might be some stranger issues too

Might be an opportunity for some enterprising car sales person to make a name for themselves .... even if it's the headlines in Prisoners Gazette Weekly :unsure:

Malc

Bluemarlin · August 3, 2022

7 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

You cannnot get through to people like you, do you know how much global pollution is attributed to the automobile? you dont - I know you dont because the BBC are not telling you this so I will - its around 10% give or take so you have a whole series of industries and sources for greenhouse gases, that 10% is globally -- the UK contribution is pretty much neligible, sorry to bring bad conspiracy news.

Now in this context banning combustion cars makes no sense whatsoever, nada, zilch. They are reliable and people can fix them and afford them - hence my original question which of course you misunderstood as in 2030 it makes perfect sense to be driving EVs, thats what you are told so you will oblige.

Because of course it's a piece of cake to get through to someone like you 😉

I'm aware of the relatively smalll contribution automobiles make to global pollution, but believe that the benefits of EV's go beyond environmental concerns. Not least being that they're not tied to a single source of fuel. I don't watch the BBC and my views aren't environmentally based.

The majority of people don't fix their cars, as most don't want to. Most barely even check oil, tyres and coolant levels. You'll still be able to fix things like brakes, lights etc, but won't be able to change oil, or fix things like starter motors or alternators, because there won't be any to break. Beyond that, the number of people who tear engines apart is even smaller and, with the increasing reliance on sensors and ECUs, even ICE cars are getting harder and harder to DIY.

Nor do I buy the affordability argument, at least not in the long term, when ubiquity and economies of scale kick in. I remember in the early 1990's the finance director of a major multinational told me that, due to the high cost, he could never see a time in the company's future that they'd use mobile phones. Now even homeless people have them.

I will concede that the timescales may be too short, and even that governments have been disingenuous in pushing the envoronmental angle, simply because it's an easier sell, as it's more in line with public sentiment. That said, it's my belief that EV's are the logical evolutionary next step in automobile manufacture, with the ability to provide faster, cleaner, more reliable, and more fuel efficient cars.

Of course that's just a personal opinion, coming from a generation that believed the oil companies and car manufacturers historically suppresesed the development of electric cars, and kept us shackled to old style combustion engines, when newer technology was available and just needed investment.

So, to answer your original question. I don't know if it will make sense for us all to be driving EV's in 2030. Luckily most of us won't have to though. I do think though that it will likely make sense by 2050, if not sooner. That has nothing to do with what I'm told, and is just my personal opinion.

Malc · August 3, 2022

6 minutes ago, Bluemarlin said:

I remember in the early 1990's the finance director of a major multinational told me that, due to the high cost, he could never see a time in the company's future that they'd use mobile phones.

be sensible now please 😉 ................... a mobile phone in them there dark ages was the size of a brickwall and as heavy

Malc

Bluemarlin · August 3, 2022

5 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

There is ample evidence out there, it's just you won't find it on the BBC. This relates to COVID, electric cars, climate change.

But you won't be convinced, resistance is futile.

It depends what you call evidence Eric.

There's "evidence" for ghosts, miracles, alien abductions, and bigfoot. None of it means these things are true. Evidence on its own is meaningless, until it's examined and proven to show that it confirms the claims being made from its use.

In other words, none of what you say is necessarily untrue, but then nor is it true either, until it can be proven. Until then it's simply guessing and leaping to conclusions.

Bluemarlin · August 3, 2022

3 minutes ago, Malc said:

be sensible now please 😉 ................... a mobile phone in them there dark ages was the size of a brickwall and as heavy

Malc

Haha, and oddly enough, aound the same time, a mobile manufacurer said they'd never get any smaller, due to Battery technology.

It's surprising what can be achieved with time, money, and the will to achieve it.

dutchie01 · August 3, 2022

The first mobile phones were CARphones. connected to a car with a sledge and a handlebar to take them out. Slide out the antenna and away you go. Workphones used in the field. Then came the Motorolas ( whatever happened to them) soon to be followed by Nokia. All this is before the internet! Now my car navigates me to a meeting i have at 09.30 which i have forgotten but is inside google automotive which is connected to my agenda and everything else google.

OH good old times you could disappear from the earth for days no questions asked! ( Mr Dutchie is on a business trip and he is back next monday. That was normal back then can you imagine now??).

dutchie01 · August 3, 2022

1 hour ago, Bluemarlin said:

It depends what you call evidence Eric.

There's "evidence" for ghosts, miracles, alien abductions, and bigfoot. None of it means these things are true. Evidence on its own is meaningless, until it's examined and proven to show that it confirms the claims being made from its use.

In other words, none of what you say is necessarily untrue, but then nor is it true either, until it can be proven. Until then it's simply guessing and leaping to conclusions.

If you think something is true does not make it the truth, or at least words like this the US judge just told Alex Jones in his courtcase.

Bluemarlin · August 3, 2022

1 hour ago, dutchie01 said:

OH good old times you could disappear from the earth for days no questions asked! ( Mr Dutchie is on a business trip and he is back next monday. That was normal back then can you imagine now??).

I know, it was awesome. You could go off for a few meetings and enjoy the peace of the journey. Now people expect to reach you anytime they want.

I have to keep reminding friends and family that my mobile phone is for my convenience, not theirs 🙂

royoftherovers · August 3, 2022

25 minutes ago, Bluemarlin said:

I know, it was awesome. You could go off for a few meetings and enjoy the peace of the journey. Now people expect to reach you anytime they want.

I have to keep reminding friends and family that my mobile phone is for my convenience, not theirs 🙂

And my mobile is switched off when I am driving. You know it makes sense !

LenT · August 4, 2022

9 hours ago, Bluemarlin said:

I have to keep reminding friends and family that my mobile phone is for my convenience, not theirs 🙂

Mrs T was of the same mind, Bill. Until she discovered that being uncontactable when mobile and therefore unaware that well-laid plans had had to be changed, was even more inconvenient!

I certainly recall times driving out to meetings which were cancelled before I arrived. So a car phone saved me quite a few wasted hours. Personally I have no problem with being called while I’m out.

I can always not answer it. 😊

LenT · August 4, 2022

19 hours ago, dutchie01 said:

Btw Eric i have not heard you talk about satanic pedophile rings?

Could they be the ones run by Bill Gates….possibly?

In which case the millions he lobs at the likes of the BBC and such guardians of the Truth as….well, The Guardian, obviously buys a lot of silence….I imagine. 😉