Fuel panic!

[ganzoom]

The echo chamber is working well on this thread I see. 

Just to bring people back into the real world, our electricity bill last month to cover electricity usage for the entire household + charging the car to do just over 1000 miles was £63.82 including VAT+standing charger.

£63.83 in our IS300H is barely 2/3 of a tank these days.

[Phil xxkr]

34 minutes ago, ganzoom said:

The echo chamber is working well on this thread I see. 

Just to bring people back into the real world, our electricity bill last month to cover electricity usage for the entire household + charging the car to do just over 1000 miles was £63.82 including VAT+standing charger.

£63.83 in our IS300H is barely 2/3 of a tank these days.

The only laugh man can get in his life is to strip and then showing off his shortcomings - David Niven 

[Malc1]

19 hours ago, Bluemarlin said:

for a cheap runabout

not sure it would be with electricity costs going the way we expect !

 

17 hours ago, Boxbrownie said:

Probably after they ban big V8 petrol vehicles completely 

I'll be ok then , mine's just a small V8

 

17 hours ago, Boxbrownie said:

that China is making most of the solar cells (maybe or likely by forced labour), so how many think that being dependant on China is good?

 I have said this twice before here, variously, and I know it's summat everybody wants to just think isn't happening ...........  it is AND it's dangerous .  maybe they're all " bugged " too  . overseeing my keypad on my computer .  aaaarrrggghhhh !

 

and as for my gas meter readings .  thank heavens we're still in a spring-like phase ..  they told me they'd have to take down a corner of the wall of my house to replace my gas meter with a " smart " one .  so how smart would that be I wonder 😇

I have one very modern smart electric one and an even smarter old fashioned gas meter now

 

Oh and as for fuel .  topped-up at Morrisons Sittingbourne yesterday with E5 at  168.9p / ltr  ..  7p more than the E10 where most pumps seemed to be empty    only 70.1 ltrs, just after the orange light popped up .       still 10 ltrs left in the old gal .......  the beauty of a " small " V8 methinks

Malc

[Las Palmas]

What really bother me is that people buying EV’s think they do something good for environment. Yes, it is better for air in the little cities they live in, but the planet is what need something done for the environment. When the glaciers melt and a lot of inhabited land is under water it might be too late to return to where it once was. We old ones need not worry, but do we not care about our children and their children?

Look at the greenwashing event happening in Egypt now. All the idiots

end up praising all the good things they have done, while they still have done nothing. As always.

 

River of melting water in North-East Greenland. 6 times faster than previously imagined:

 

 

And it is running out and sea-level will go up so much that many will get wet feet.

Not that 7 m rise in sea level will kill all people, but it sure will have disaster effect on many.

And we keep discussing how much more we have to spend, if or not driving EV's.

 

Forgot to say that this is only the ice in Greenland. Something as big is happening on south pole as well.

 

But no problem. Our children and their children will solve the disaster we have made. A good man leaves an inheritance to his children’s children.

[Phil xxkr]

4 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

What really bother me is that people buying EV’s think they do something good for environment. Yes, it is better for air in the little cities they live in, but the planet is what need something done for the environment. When the glaciers melt and a lot of inhabited land is under water it might be too late to return to where it once was. We old ones need not worry, but do we not care about our children and their children?

Look at the greenwashing event happening in Egypt now. All the idiots

end up praising all the good things they have done, while they still have done nothing. As always.

 

River of melting water in North-East Greenland. 6 times faster than previously imagined:

 

 

And it is running out and sea-level will go up so much that many will get wet feet.

Not that 7 m rise in sea level will kill all people, but it sure will have disaster effect on many.

And we keep discussing how much more we have to spend, if or not driving EV's.

 

Forgot to say that this is only the ice in Greenland. Something as big is happening on south pole as well.

 

But no problem. Our children and their children will solve the disaster we have made. A good man leaves an inheritance to his children’s children.

 

The insanity surrounding climate continues here is the latest :

 

All students at the University of Barcelona will have to take a mandatory course on the climate crisis after the establishment agreed to meet the demands of activists conducting a sit-in occupation.

In a move thought to be a world first, all 14,000 undergraduate and postgraduate students will have to take the course from the 2024 academic year. It will also devise a training programme on climate issues for its 6,000 academic staff.

The announcement came after a seven-day occupation by a group from the anti-fossil fuel organisation End Fossil Barcelona.

[Las Palmas]

56 minutes ago, Phil xxkr said:

The insanity surrounding climate continues here is the latest :

 

All students at the University of Barcelona will have to take a mandatory course on the climate crisis after the establishment agreed to meet the demands of activists conducting a sit-in occupation.

In a move thought to be a world first, all 14,000 undergraduate and postgraduate students will have to take the course from the 2024 academic year. It will also devise a training programme on climate issues for its 6,000 academic staff.

The announcement came after a seven-day occupation by a group from the anti-fossil fuel organisation End Fossil Barcelona.

Until we know what they are going to be taught it is hard to know if it that good or bad.

[Bluemarlin]

23 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

It will be difficult, no? considering they wont be made any more and unless you have used cars that are well maintained most will be junk - BMWs etc...🥲

And whats stopping government banning ICE cars too with VED rates etc? My Subaru is £600+ a year and its only 2022 -- who can afford to run a ICE car in 2030 and Why would you spend £40-60 - 100k on a EV when a petrol car can be got for a fraction of the cost, will last for far longer on fuel and wont be as troublesome to own - ie no need to charge it up every day 

 

I'm not sure I understand your point Eric.

Of course older cars won't won't be made anymore, they never were, they're just the leftovers of new cars that are still on the road. And  yes, some will be junk, but then that's no different than today. The fact is that in 2030 there'll be as many, in similar condition, used cars available to buy for those on lower incomes. In fact that will always be the case only, further in the future, those older cars will be electric.

I can't comment on VED rates in 2030, as that would just be speculating. I will say that your claim about the only electric options in 2030 will be £40-100K is false. EV prices are bound to fall over time, and already there are sub £30k cars. That said, people will still be able to buy cheap, used petrol cars for some time to come. Nor will they need to be charged up every day, any more than a petrol car with a 300-400 mile range needs to be filled up every day.

As I said before, enjoy your petrol car, I enjoy my hybrid, and by all means have your preferences.  You may feel that ICE cars are superior, fair enough, but that doesn't mean others are being sheep to think differently, or that the switch to electric will result in no cheap used cars come 2030.

[toffee_pie]

14 hours ago, First_Lexus said:

From my perspective, there is a big difference between ‘a lie’ and decisions that are made because of changing information, or policy decisions made in order to change behaviour.  A ‘lie’ implies knowing deception, and I think to believe that about the pandemic is fanciful (at best, and being charitable).

‘COVID’ was a new variant of an existing Coronavirus. My understanding (and I’m not a virologist) is that part of the reason a vaccine was available so quickly was the simple fact that there were existing vaccines that could act as a base for it. Governments didn’t know that multiple boosters would be needed, because the vaccine effectiveness and how long protection would last wasn’t known. I think any rational person would be able to see that without characterising it as ‘a lie.’

Moving to the lockdown parties at Westminster, yes, they were clearly unwise. However, to make a link that says (in essence) that they were holding those parties because the whole pandemic was ‘a lie’ or that restrictions weren’t needed seems to me similarly irrational.

Excess deaths? Nobody, to my knowledge, has ever said a vaccine would prevent some people from dying from COVID (or any other disease). Rather the communication to population has been very clear - getting the vaccine, “…reduces your chance of severe disease or death.” Again, that seems clear to me.

I’ve said many times on this forum that an EV is not for me currently, but what exactly characterises them as ‘a lie?’ Unless you are a total climate change sceptic and deny it exists, it (again) seems clear to me that we need to move away from burning fossil fuels. We aren’t there yet, and yes there is environmental damage cause by the production of EVs, and indeed caused by ALL manufacturing of anything and everything. But - and it’s a big but - we do need to move in a direction that reduces carbon emissions. EVs may be a small part of that and  wider use of renewable energy will be a bigger part. EVs may not be the final answer, but they are a step in the right direction, certainly in terms of air quality. Are they ‘a lie’ though? I can’t see how. Governments are enacting policy, as they always have, in order to encourage people to make different choices for the good of all based on the beliefs of those currently in Government. 

In terms of VED for EVs, yes that’s coming. It’s inevitable. Again, I can’t see how that is ‘a lie.’ As revenue from fossil fuel powered vehicles declines, Government needs to replace that lost revenue. To my knowledge they never said EVs would be VED free forever. 

Corruption has been going on the world over, for decades - its nothing new, the problem people have is A) realising its actually happening or B) accepting it or

C) which is I think is most common, in denial.

Even the police are not exempt, look at the state of them now? Needs no further discussion.

 I remember watching a documentary recently about a murder case in Wales I think it was in the 80s - some woman murdered, a hooker to cut to the chase but anyway the thing is the Police arrested and jailed 3 black men because said individuals were walking past the location of the incident, no more no less – that is all the evidence they had - did  them guys kill the woman? no they didn’t, it went to court and on the last day - low and behold the police 'lost' some paper’s and the trial was throw out.
The black guys were acquitted, but unfortunately for them they were of old age by then having spent decades in jail for something they had nothing to do with - the plod involved in this case got off scot free.

A white guy killed that woman

The WC in Qatar, more blatant corruption - it’s a tense subject, everyone knows about it but nobody is allowed talk about it.

Ireland, my country paid 5 million EU to keep quiet about the Thierry Henry hand ball and send France to the South Africa WC and not my home land, who wants a small country of nothing in the WC.

Maradona said FIFA were corrupt back in the 80s, he didn’t care what anyone said of his opinion, fine him – he can pay – he was the most famous footballer on the planet, and was absolutely correct

Covid is the same, net zero – absolutely – Governments doing what they need to do by any means possible.

I will gladly stick with my trusty 14-year-old 6-cylinder car that can do 400 miles plus at 80mph over some pile of garbage Electric Car that is on charge every day and would give me a heart attack on anxiety, and save the hundreds it costs on monthly payments in the process.

Still need to fill up btw, should I suck petrol out of it.. lasting far too long 
 

[Phil xxkr]

39 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

Until we know what they are going to be taught it is hard to know if it that good or bad.

Really John? What other courses are Mandatory at Barcelona or any other University for that matter. The fact that it's obligatory tells you all to need to know irrespective of content 😱

[Las Palmas]

4 minutes ago, Phil xxkr said:

Really John? What other courses are Mandatory at Barcelona or any other University for that matter. The fact that it's obligatory tells you all to need to know irrespective of content 😱

The accused is innocent until proven guilty.

[toffee_pie]

1 hour ago, Bluemarlin said:

I'm not sure I understand your point Eric.

Of course older cars won't won't be made anymore, they never were, they're just the leftovers of new cars that are still on the road. And  yes, some will be junk, but then that's no different than today. The fact is that in 2030 there'll be as many, in similar condition, used cars available to buy for those on lower incomes. In fact that will always be the case only, further in the future, those older cars will be electric.

I can't comment on VED rates in 2030, as that would just be speculating. I will say that your claim about the only electric options in 2030 will be £40-100K is false. EV prices are bound to fall over time, and already there are sub £30k cars. That said, people will still be able to buy cheap, used petrol cars for some time to come. Nor will they need to be charged up every day, any more than a petrol car with a 300-400 mile range needs to be filled up every day.

As I said before, enjoy your petrol car, I enjoy my hybrid, and by all means have your preferences.  You may feel that ICE cars are superior, fair enough, but that doesn't mean others are being sheep to think differently, or that the switch to electric will result in no cheap used cars come 2030.

EVs now have a 'VED' so in 2030 they will incur 'extra' charges and wont be any cheaper to run than the petrol cars that existed 30+ years before them - nor any better for the planet  - worse most likely since the half tonne lithium batteries per car is taking its toll on the planet

You are too spaced out on what Governments say to have any further dialogue, you and quite a few others on here - you know who you are, are you lot 'paid' off by third parties out of interest?

[toffee_pie]

8 hours ago, Malc1 said:

I'll be ok then , mine's just a small V8

😁

[toffee_pie]

14 hours ago, ganzoom said:

The echo chamber is working well on this thread I see. 

Just to bring people back into the real world, our electricity bill last month to cover electricity usage for the entire household + charging the car to do just over 1000 miles was £63.82 including VAT+standing charger.

£63.83 in our IS300H is barely 2/3 of a tank these days.

I paid £130 for elec and gas in the last month - my Ice berg melting Subaru is good for a couple of top ups a month - no range anxiety and I can drive like a bat out of hell

Dont see the issue - call back in a few years with your charge rates for your electric car

[toffee_pie]

Budget could hike your energy bill by £900: Jeremy Hunt plans to cut Government subsidies and allow average yearly bills of £3,000... putting more strain on hard-hit families facing cost of living crisis.

Corruption, covid was just a warm up exercise. The problem is people in denial, when it's blatantly obvious something is not quite right 

 

 

[Phil xxkr]

10 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

The accused is innocent until proven guilty.

 

Only in Alice's Wonderland 😎

[Malc1]

12 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

The WC in Qatar

Am i reading that this venue was decided upon in 2010/12  ?    hasn't the world moved on since then a little and corruption become more evident  ..... and as for Elon Musks EVs and his Twitter debacle .........  this morning just about everything i touch on my mobile phone to search is being interrupted to do it thru' that twits Twitter ........... 

how the hell do we escape these unwanted intrusions on life ??    I don't have the twits Twitter at all .  don't want it and don't see why it has to be thrust down my eyeballs to use it 

Frustrated from Kent here

Malc

[dutchie01]

2 hours ago, Malc1 said:

 

how the hell do we escape these unwanted intrusions on life ??    I don't have the twits Twitter at all .  don't want it and don't see why it has to be thrust down my eyeballs to use it 

Frustrated from Kent here

Malc

Malc, remember the Nokia 6110?

[royoftherovers]

7 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

Malc, remember the Nokia 6110?

I still have a 6150 which was fitted with my old Merc.

[Malc1]

4 hours ago, dutchie01 said:

Nokia 6110?

no, why ?  do tell !

Malc

 

 

[Bluemarlin]

20 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

EVs now have a 'VED' so in 2030 they will incur 'extra' charges and wont be any cheaper to run than the petrol cars that existed 30+ years before them - nor any better for the planet  - worse most likely since the half tonne lithium batteries per car is taking its toll on the planet

You are too spaced out on what Governments say to have any further dialogue, you and quite a few others on here - you know who you are, are you lot 'paid' off by third parties out of interest?

I don't believe that electric cars will necessarily be cheaper to own and run in the long term. However, nor do I think they'll be more expensive. I imagine that costwise it will probably balance out, but perhaps they might be a bit less of a faff to maintain.

I'm undecided on the environmental impact, although I recently saw a study comparing an ICE Golf vs EV which, taking into account all of the manufacturing, the overall environmental impact of the EV became lower at around 2 years into ownership. So yes, there is an impact in production, which is then mitigated during its lifecyle. How true that is of other cars, I don't know.

However, neither cost nor the environmental arguments are the reason for my preference, I just think the technology is better, with greater opportunities for innovation and improvement.

All of this is just my opinion, which I'm happy to accept you don't agree with.

Contrary to your statement though, I have been having further dialogue with you Eric, but the fact that my opinion differs from yours seems to make you conclude that I must be paid off. We just have different views on the technology, that's all. That doesnt mean that I'm spaced out on what governments say, or am paid off by anyone, and only that we happen to disagree. Is that such a hard concept to grasp, or is disagreeing with you a government conspiracy too?

[Bluemarlin]

22 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

Until we know what they are going to be taught it is hard to know if it that good or bad.

Perhaps, but I don't believe it's appropriate for a university to make such a course mandatory (good or bad), especially if/when students are paying for their course.

I do however believe that it should be mandatory for schools to teach kids how to be a decent human being and member of society. That might include such things as our impact on the planet, and how we can address that, but should also include our individual impact and how we treat and interact with others, and how we can become a positive part of society, and not a negative one.  

After all, it's no use being able to spell and add up, if you're just going to go through life being a *****.

[dutchie01]

3 hours ago, Malc1 said:

no, why ?  do tell !

Malc

 

 

well, just a phone, no internet. ( and a Battery that lasts for a week)

[Las Palmas]

2 hours ago, Bluemarlin said:

Perhaps, but I don't believe it's appropriate for a university to make such a course mandatory (good or bad), especially if/when students are paying for their course.

I do however believe that it should be mandatory for schools to teach kids how to be a decent human being and member of society. That might include such things as our impact on the planet, and how we can address that, but should also include our individual impact and how we treat and interact with others, and how we can become a positive part of society, and not a negative one.  

After all, it's no use being able to spell and add up, if you're just going to go through life being a *****.

School is free but some books students buy.

Maybe some of the students are able to think and find out what is right.

[LenT]

On 11/13/2022 at 8:54 PM, toffee_pie said:

are you lot 'paid' off by third parties out of interest?

I wish!!!  

After all, being paid to have a particular opinion seems to be perfectly respectable these days.  They’re called ‘Influencers’ and it seems to be a nice little earner.

I believe not being approached is clear evidence that I’m the victim of a Conspiracy!  I think it’s because it’s well known that I can’t be bought.  😇

Others might suggest it’s because I’m not worth buying!  😢

You may well say that.  I could not possibly comment.

[Phil xxkr]

13 hours ago, Bluemarlin said:

Perhaps, but I don't believe it's appropriate for a university to make such a course mandatory (good or bad), especially if/when students are paying for their course.

I do however believe that it should be mandatory for schools to teach kids how to be a decent human being and member of society. That might include such things as our impact on the planet, and how we can address that, but should also include our individual impact and how we treat and interact with others, and how we can become a positive part of society, and not a negative one.  

After all, it's no use being able to spell and add up, if you're just going to go through life being a *****.

Being an Asterisk? Wasn't he from Belgium😂