Fuel panic!

[Dippo]

50 minutes ago, Bluemarlin said:

there are already more charging staations than petrol stations.

Are you sure about that? And even if it were the case, what about the time it takes one car to refuel, compared with charging time? As an example, my local Sainsburys has 6 charging points. People tend to hook up their car, and do their shopping. Say the average shop takes 30 minutes, that location charges 12 cars per hour. The same site has a filling station with 16 pumps. Assume an average fill up of 5 minutes, each pump does 12 cars per hour - so the filling station can handle 16 (the number of pumps) times as many cars per hour as the charging points.

[toffee_pie]

58 minutes ago, Dippo said:

Are you sure about that? And even if it were the case, what about the time it takes one car to refuel, compared with charging time? As an example, my local Sainsburys has 6 charging points. People tend to hook up their car, and do their shopping. Say the average shop takes 30 minutes, that location charges 12 cars per hour. The same site has a filling station with 16 pumps. Assume an average fill up of 5 minutes, each pump does 12 cars per hour - so the filling station can handle 16 (the number of pumps) times as many cars per hour as the charging points.

And even if there are charging stations who wants to faff around looking for one that works, is available and wants to spend half an hour to get some extra range to go home - sheep, who are listening to experts that’s who - as the video showed they are already taking the ***** in terms of cost and usable range over a petrol car.

Even before the EV era took off most cars on the road were on finance, even modest one’s costing £7k or so - with that in mind who can afford electric cars, nobody can. 
When social credit kicks off there will be a tiered society of people who are well off and those who aren’t and the government will be like big brother having control of people like never before – they want to restrict car ownership to the elite

[toffee_pie]

1 hour ago, Bluemarlin said:

Used ones will still be able to be bought for as long as they last. Beyond that I can't see many people wanting them once prices and range even out.

Pointing out realities over scare mongering is hardly being like a Jehovah's Witness, but what's your address, I'd drop one off for you 🙂

There is a blurred line between reality and scaremongering when you have money involved but there is no point getting through to people who are spaced out from subject matter experts- the stop oil lunatics have been paid off, you believe 3 thousand died in the summer heatwave too and that Electric cars have half tonne batteries that magically are made from compost it seems and everything else that the BBC will tell you.

[Boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

video unavilable to me Eric.

Eric is unavailable to me 🤣

[Boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, Bluemarlin said:

Used ones will still be able to be bought for as long as they last. Beyond that I can't see many people wanting them once prices and range even out.

Pointing out realities over scare mongering is hardly being like a Jehovah's Witness, but what's your address, I'd drop one off for you 🙂

I think there will be enough customers for the old Smokeys just from this forum alone after 2030 🤣

[Malc1]

Wild Atlantic Way video not available to me either .  says no copyright allowed for me to see !  weird 

BUT I have actually driven the WAW and it sure is MAGNIFIQUE 

Malc

[Las Palmas]

22 hours ago, Malc1 said:

non EVs will ALWAYS be available in most other non-European dimwit countries ..........  just fly to wherever and buy your V8 and drive it back home methinks

Malc

Do you think you can get it registered so you can drive it?

If not have it converted to hydrogen as when gasoline and diesel are no longer permitted there will be fueling stations for all the trucks and trains running on that: https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/coradia-ilint-hydrogen-trains/index.html

[Malc1]

1 minute ago, Las Palmas said:

Do you think you can get it registered so you can drive it?

Why not,  it's just importing a secondhand car .  however new it might be 

Malc

[Las Palmas]

5 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

Why not,  it's just importing a secondhand car .  however new it might be 

Malc

Politicians never change, they will make it as impossible as they can. Maybe even forbid selling gasoline.

[Spacewagon52]

Very interesting discussion but at the end of the day it will be down to cost. Electric cars will be developed and become cheaper. It will be down to personal economics - if you can afford and wish to run a V8 petrol in the future that is fine. If you have a choice and the electric option is cheaper to run, then some people will go with that. 

I have never driven an electric car but I have no bias towards petrol. If I can get a car that fulfils my needs, then it will probably down to running costs.

If you have £X to spend on owning a car and you have a straight choice between Car A and Car B then if A is cheaper to run you will buy that one. 

There is a certain amount of dogmatism regarding bashing electric cars - everyone has their opinion. I try and be open minded. Yes, owning an electric car takes more journey planning. If you can’t live with that inconvenience, then fair enough. I will probably stick with my petrol cars but I do understand the basic economics of people wanting to own an electric vehicle at this time - provided they can afford it.

[dutchie01]

It is not only down to economics. Although the vast majority of EVs currently sold will be company car drivers this will change. It seems to me the EV market in Holland is some 2 yrs ahead of the UK. When charging infrastructure is developing things start to move fast. The first adopters were the techies going for Tesla quickly followed by company car drivers going for it due to fiscal support. Currently almost 35% of new EVs in Holland are purchased by private people. Why? Well maybe as it is more economical, you charge at home with power from your own solarcells. But there is an other thing, people drive one because they like driving an EV. Just like some like driving a V8 petrol, simple as that. Each to their own i guess.

[royoftherovers]

4 hours ago, Spacewagon52 said:

Very interesting discussion but at the end of the day it will be down to cost. Electric cars will be developed and become cheaper. It will be down to personal economics - if you can afford and wish to run a V8 petrol in the future that is fine. If you have a choice and the electric option is cheaper to run, then some people will go with that. 

I have never driven an electric car but I have no bias towards petrol. If I can get a car that fulfils my needs, then it will probably down to running costs.

If you have £X to spend on owning a car and you have a straight choice between Car A and Car B then if A is cheaper to run you will buy that one. 

There is a certain amount of dogmatism regarding bashing electric cars - everyone has their opinion. I try and be open minded. Yes, owning an electric car takes more journey planning. If you can’t live with that inconvenience, then fair enough. I will probably stick with my petrol cars but I do understand the basic economics of people wanting to own an electric vehicle at this time - provided they can afford it.

"If you have £X to spend on owning a car and you have a straight choice between Car A and Car B then if A is cheaper to run you will buy that one. "

subject to input from one`s wife ?

[Bluemarlin]

On 11/5/2022 at 3:54 PM, toffee_pie said:

Nobody will be able to afford them eh but crack on with your ideology that they are saving the planet, which they aren't. I'll stick with a nice reliable petrol car and not listen to government hyperbole by subject matter experts 

I don't recall saying they're saving the planet, in fact I said I was uncertain about such claims. I just said they were better, and in 10-15 years they'll be as affordable as any other new car.

[Bluemarlin]

On 11/5/2022 at 5:59 PM, Boxbrownie said:

I think there will be enough customers for the old Smokeys just from this forum alone after 2030 🤣

Depending on how many from this forum are left in 2030 🙂

[Bluemarlin]

On 11/5/2022 at 4:05 PM, Dippo said:

Are you sure about that? And even if it were the case, what about the time it takes one car to refuel, compared with charging time? As an example, my local Sainsburys has 6 charging points. People tend to hook up their car, and do their shopping. Say the average shop takes 30 minutes, that location charges 12 cars per hour. The same site has a filling station with 16 pumps. Assume an average fill up of 5 minutes, each pump does 12 cars per hour - so the filling station can handle 16 (the number of pumps) times as many cars per hour as the charging points.

Apparrently so Ian,  but that's not to say it's  sufficient for everyone to go electric today. I would imagine that there would be even more, and faster chargers 10 years from now.

Realistically some will continue to buy ICE cars right up until 2030, and others will buy used ones after that, so there's bound to be a longer overlap rather than a hard transition.

[Moleman]

18 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

"If you have £X to spend on owning a car and you have a straight choice between Car A and Car B then if A is cheaper to run you will buy that one. "

subject to input from one`s wife ?

Decision-order-instruction = input. Take your pick. 🤣 

[toffee_pie]

17 minutes ago, Bluemarlin said:

I don't recall saying they're saving the planet, in fact I said I was uncertain about such claims. I just said they were better, and in 10-15 years they'll be as affordable as any other new car.

The whole point of electric cars is that they are actually saving the planet, which is hogwash they aren’t because they are full of nasty electronic components and batteries that don’t grow on trees and cars themselves aren’t the problem with greenhouse gases in the first place - the global contribution from auto vehicles is less than 15 percent worldwide.

I suggest you remove your rose-tinted glasses as they are seriously clouding your judgement and how do you know they 'are better’? because some experts say so? they are a brand-new technology and as per the video posted a few days ago you can see how rubbish they are compared to a modern petrol car, a BMW 6 cylinder in this case but in all honesty my 14-year-old Subaru would outshine the same electric BMW in the very same exercise – it would go further, faster and use less fuel – I can do over 400 miles doing 70/80mph, that is around Southampton to Edinburgh, I wont be able to go that speed all the way but you get the idea, driving quite briskly - I wont spend half my time looking at the needle, I will be looking at the road ahead.

The problem with folks like you is you listen to too much experts and because it’s from ‘reliable’ sources, i.e., the government or such its true – like foggy brains and the 101 other covid symptoms and the general catastrophic situation the planet is in.

If the WEF get their way less people will be driving as they wont be able to afford cars in the first place that cost tens of thousands and interest going up each month its  already pretty evident and its only 2022. I dont see why electric cars will be much cheaper in 2030 - inflation that singular word.

[toffee_pie]

3 hours ago, dutchie01 said:

It is not only down to economics. Although the vast majority of EVs currently sold will be company car drivers this will change. It seems to me the EV market in Holland is some 2 yrs ahead of the UK. When charging infrastructure is developing things start to move fast. The first adopters were the techies going for Tesla quickly followed by company car drivers going for it due to fiscal support. Currently almost 35% of new EVs in Holland are purchased by private people. Why? Well maybe as it is more economical, you charge at home with power from your own solarcells. But there is an other thing, people drive one because they like driving an EV. Just like some like driving a V8 petrol, simple as that. Each to their own i guess.

They are driving them because governments are telling them to and your very statement suggests what I already discussed- they are getting people off the road and only want the 'elite' to drive a car in the future a house and a car are two of the most prized possessions anyone can afford and like I said even before EVs took to the fore most cars were leased out, cars that probably cost £10k of a loan since who has that money in their bank? now factor in the cost of EVs -  nobody has that money – the average wage in the UK has hardly increased in 15 odd years and inflation has got far worse so people have far less disposable income.

A combustion car that can drive 600 miles on a tank of fuel is no use to the government, that is not what they want – that very freedom they are removing.

[Bluemarlin]

1 hour ago, toffee_pie said:

I suggest you remove your rose-tinted glasses as they are seriously clouding your judgement and how do you know they 'are better’? because some experts say so? they are a brand-new technology and as per the video posted a few days ago you can see how rubbish they are compared to a modern petrol car, a BMW 6 cylinder in this case but in all honesty my 14-year-old Subaru would outshine the same electric BMW in the very same exercise – it would go further, faster and use less fuel – I can do over 400 miles doing 70/80mph, that is around Southampton to Edinburgh, I wont be able to go that speed all the way but you get the idea, driving quite briskly - I wont spend half my time looking at the needle, I will be looking at the road ahead.

If the WEF get their way less people will be driving as they wont be able to afford cars in the first place that cost tens of thousands and interest going up each month its  already pretty evident and its only 2022. I dont see why electric cars will be much cheaper in 2030 - inflation that singular word.

Putting aside the climate argument, as it's not a claim I'm trying to make, let's focus on which is bettter.

Your arguments are based solely on the situation today, and the false assumption that it will stay that way, which of course it won't. Already EV's are faster, have fewer moving parts, and are more energy efficient. Once they have lower prices (which they will), 500m+ range (which they will), faster charging (which they will), and widespread charging stations (which they will), then those arguments evaporate faster than your exhaust emissions.

Simply put, EVs have far greater potential for innovation and improvement, with a variety of fueling options, which can lead not only to better cars, but also less reliance on the multinational oil cartel you seem to favour.

I also take it you're aware that both ICE vehicles and oil are subject to inflation too.

[dutchie01]

1 hour ago, royoftherovers said:

"If you have £X to spend on owning a car and you have a straight choice between Car A and Car B then if A is cheaper to run you will buy that one. "

subject to input from one`s wife ?

Oh dear, sensitive topic John as my wife always takes the most epensive option.

[royoftherovers]

Just now, dutchie01 said:

Oh dear, sensitive topic John as my wife always takes the most epensive option.

Mine too, same girl perhaps ?

[dutchie01]

2 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

Mine too, same girl perhaps ?

Now THAT would be something wont it haha

[dutchie01]

1 hour ago, toffee_pie said:

They are driving them because governments are telling them to and your very statement suggests what I already discussed- they are getting people off the road and only want the 'elite' to drive a car in the future a house and a car are two of the most prized possessions anyone can afford and like I said even before EVs took to the fore most cars were leased out, cars that probably cost £10k of a loan since who has that money in their bank? now factor in the cost of EVs -  nobody has that money – the average wage in the UK has hardly increased in 15 odd years and inflation has got far worse so people have far less disposable income.

A combustion car that can drive 600 miles on a tank of fuel is no use to the government, that is not what they want – that very freedom they are removing.

Its a free world Toffee and everybody can choose the car they want. There will always be people that are interested and can afford new technologies, the latest cars, the best houses in the best location. A lot of people will not have 10k in the bank but a lot will and are ready to spend it, not everybody chooses to drive around in an old Subaru but some do, and that is fine, like i said its a free world. If you take a look at the UK market there are roughly 33 million cars driving around and this year some 1.5 million ( only ) new cars will be sold. Lexus marketshare is less that 1%. That means the second hand market is massively bigger than the new car market. Petrol cars will still be around till way after 2035, they can be serviced, bought, sold or scrapped no problem. Its a free world. I can still buy a perfectly fine car for less than an electric bike. Can use it for shopping or even drive it all the way to Spain to lie on the beach if i so want. If you maintain your car you can keep running it until the wheels fall off its your choice but some make a different choice and all that is fine. Current inflation is staggering and in the third covid year all is still upside down. The Russian agression is causing the energymarkets to freak out driving inflation up all over Europe but in 12 months we could be living in a different world again. Whatever the situation we are lucky to live in this part of the globe, in a democracy which allows you to make your own choices, to read what you want and say what you like.

[toffee_pie]

1 hour ago, Bluemarlin said:

Putting aside the climate argument, as it's not a claim I'm trying to make, let's focus on which is bettter.

Your arguments are based solely on the situation today, and the false assumption that it will stay that way, which of course it won't. Already EV's are faster, have fewer moving parts, and are more energy efficient. Once they have lower prices (which they will), 500m+ range (which they will), faster charging (which they will), and widespread charging stations (which they will), then those arguments evaporate faster than your exhaust emissions.

Simply put, EVs have far greater potential for innovation and improvement, with a variety of fueling options, which can lead not only to better cars, but also less reliance on the multinational oil cartel you seem to favour.

I also take it you're aware that both ICE vehicles and oil are subject to inflation too.

Everything is subject to inflation, Electric Cars are expensive now, and will be expensive to get in the future – I can get one now if I wanted to but I am not a sheep and it would be a useless investment - the point is, I could buy a petrol car tomorrow for £5k that would serve me better than a £50K EV ever will - Do you think that the natural resources required to make EVs are grown in your back garden? it seems so, they use as much oil as an EV in manufacturing and that isn’t even factoring in the half tonne lithium batteries, so like I said -- rose tinted glasses, take them off, it amazing the amount of people who think things are changing for the better - I am talking gods lifesaving booster jab and the powers that be are cutting off our power for 3 hours at a time in winter - people like you are saying its ok to tag along with elites and their evil plans - you don’t have to be a conspiracy nut job to see what is happening – all the events since 2019 are not a coincidence it’s pretty obvious.

 

[Spacewagon52]

11 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

Everything is subject to inflation, Electric Cars are expensive now, and will be expensive to get in the future – I can get one now if I wanted to but I am not a sheep and it would be a useless investment - the point is, I could buy a petrol car tomorrow for £5k that would serve me better than a £50K EV ever will - Do you think that the natural resources required to make EVs are grown in your back garden? it seems so, they use as much oil as an EV in manufacturing and that isn’t even factoring in the half tonne lithium batteries, so like I said -- rose tinted glasses, take them off, it amazing the amount of people who think things are changing for the better - I am talking gods lifesaving booster jab and the powers that be are cutting off our power for 3 hours at a time in winter - people like you are saying its ok to tag along with elites and their evil plans - you don’t have to be a conspiracy nut job to see what is happening – all the events since 2019 are not a coincidence it’s pretty obvious.

 

There seems to be a trend, particularly in the USA, where conspiracy theories are believed by an increasing number of people. Opinions and rumour become fact in people's minds. We are slipping into an era of extreme distrust in elected governments - I worry that a saviour will come along and promise to put things right. Parallels with the 1930's are ringing alarm bells in my ears. I sincerely hope I am wrong.