Fuel panic!

[toffee_pie]

What's happening is nothing more than the drive to electric cars by G7 nation's to meet the requirements of UNECE 2030, any excuses they come up with are hogwash. I read about a guy yesterday who said he found it hard not to be smug with the money he was saving from his Electric car. To save this money he took out a loan of £20K

[javadude]

5 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

What's happening is nothing more than the drive to electric cars by G7 nation's to meet the requirements of UNECE 2030, any excuses they come up with are hogwash. I read about a guy yesterday who said he found it hard not to be smug with the money he was saving from his Electric car. To save this money he took out a loan of £20K

So you don't believe climate change exists? Or you think there's a better solution than EVs? Or the price of fuel is to push people into EVs? Not sure what you're saying.

[DBIZO]

2 hours ago, javadude said:

So you don't believe climate change exists? Or you think there's a better solution than EVs? Or the price of fuel is to push people into EVs? Not sure what you're saying.

Let's not get carried away. EVs are not a solution to the climate, they are perhaps for air quality in urban areas by shifting pollution elsewhere. Even if you make the completely groundless assumption that electrifying an inherently wasteful and environmentally destructive form of transport (private cars) matters one iota, EVs are massively suboptimal in allocating scarce resource (in this case, the gating factors are largely Battery production and rare metals) compared to plug-in hybrids or self-charging hybrids, and a long list of other emission curbing tools such as smart traffic lights, better public transport, electrical bikes, cycling, or more walking.

[Malc]

1 hour ago, javadude said:

Not sure what you're saying.

bring back the horse drawn drays and use the horse manure to fertilise your allotments ........... very green

 

7 minutes ago, DBIZO said:

EVs are massively suboptimal in allocating scarce resource (

and the burning of petrol and diesel is but a tiny tiny tiny global pollutant ......  Govts would do better by the world climate in focussing on more useful climate friendly soluitions ...... to everything.  whatever they might be ....... and it ain't EVs for sure 

Malc

[dutchie01]

1 hour ago, Malc said:

bring back the horse drawn drays and use the horse manure to fertilise your allotments ........... very green

 

 

Not so sure Malc. The vast amount of these animals caused accidents, polution, smell they were basically suffocating the cities. Sound familiar? Nothing seems to have changed in 100 years.

[DBIZO]

22 hours ago, Malc said:

bring back the horse drawn drays and use the horse manure to fertilise your allotments ........... very green

 

and the burning of petrol and diesel is but a tiny tiny tiny global pollutant ......  Govts would do better by the world climate in focussing on more useful climate friendly soluitions ...... to everything.  whatever they might be ....... and it ain't EVs for sure 

Malc

We sort of know where the focus should be, there is data, there are lots of people whose profession in energy. Insulating homes and incentivizing HVAC upgrades in general (UK has strong skills in industrial HVAC); investing in nuclear R&D and net new capacity to provide low-carbon dispatchable power to the grids anywhere; developing a hydrogen infrastructure and encourage investment into hydrogen and alternative fuel combustion engines and fuel cells; electrification of manufacturing industries, particularly steel; subsidising development of industrial processes that minimize GHG emissions or capture them. Reforesting / depopulating land, including golf courses.

[Phil xxkr]

2 hours ago, dutchie01 said:

Not so sure Malc. The vast amount of these animals caused accidents, polution, smell they were basically suffocating the cities. Sound familiar? Nothing seems to have changed in 100 years.

Actually Bernard there are more horses kept in the UK today than in Victorian times 😎

[Phil xxkr]

5 hours ago, javadude said:

So you don't believe climate change exists? Or you think there's a better solution than EVs? Or the price of fuel is to push people into EVs? Not sure what you're saying.

Of course the climate changes, in fact by the minute Chris, it's generally called weather. But if you believe those changes are fundamentally caused by anthropogenic activities then they are so monumental in nature changing to an EV will not make a blind bit of difference. I have yet to see a proper "dust to dust" balance sheet of EV v ICE have you? 

As to fuel prices this is a car owners forum so no doubt we are more keenly focussed on the price per litre. But look closer and similar percentage rises abound in all sorts of commodities £7.25 for a tub of Lurpak anyone? For us in the West we have been living, by an large, the life of Riley based on debt for years but I sense now we have to pay the piper. 🙁

[Malc]

13 hours ago, Phil xxkr said:

the life of Riley based on debt for years but I sense now we have to pay the piper. 🙁

not sure those using Foodbanks and living like ragged Victorian children ............. and climbing up chimneys for a living, a scrap of bread ......  would share your thoughts here 

Malc

[dutchie01]

15 hours ago, Phil xxkr said:

Actually Bernard there are more horses kept in the UK today than in Victorian times 😎

Hmmm, in 1917 there were almost 3 million and now 700,000. Back then most were working horses that literally moved in trafficjams through cities. Horsemeat by the way was normal food nice juicy steaks! These have disappeared from the menu and i only dare to buy one when my children are not around…( like rabbit..)

[Malc]

1 hour ago, dutchie01 said:

These have disappeared from the menu and i only dare to buy one when my children are not around…( like rabbit..)

not seen cheval meat here in the UK but a long way back I ate in France ...  and rabbit stew is yummy too  .....  not sure the Foodbanks "do" rabbit though 

Malc

[Phil xxkr]

4 hours ago, Malc said:

not sure those using Foodbanks and living like ragged Victorian children ............. and climbing up chimneys for a living, a scrap of bread ......  would share your thoughts here 

Malc

These are the same people with Sky TV, the latest smartphones, cigarettes, taxis from the supermarket, I could go on 🤯

[Bill Dawes]

I have always thought that EVs will be short lived, at least in their present form.

This is based on nothing more than than the fact that technology always advances and none more so than the current pace of technology developments and I wouldn't dismiss the ICE engine just yet.

Bill D.

[toffee_pie]

Using EVs as a police car is probably the worst possible choice of car, should have kept the Subaru's and EVOs and not play along with this nonsense that's the climate change, net zero and carbon neutral

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/no-charges-police-failed-by-electric-cars-6j7d3mq73

[Bluemarlin]

Maybe Bill, but I think the advancements will come in Battery technology.  30 years ago the Battery required to power a basic phone for 6-8 hours was the size of a brick. Today's batteries power what is basically a hand held computer with a high definition screen, for several days, and you'd struggle to find it on most phones.

Some of the broader technology is pretty impressive too. I recently read that a fully autonomous, electric cargo ship,   made its maiden voyage earlier this year.

[toffee_pie]

On 7/5/2022 at 2:36 PM, javadude said:

So you don't believe climate change exists? Or you think there's a better solution than EVs? Or the price of fuel is to push people into EVs? Not sure what you're saying.

Climate change is a complex world, but government's are using it as a tool to enable the future that is set out. Now electric cars and being an established electronic engineer (just spent the last week doing EMC testing on the product I designed) I can assure you electric cars green credentials are not at all what you are LED to believe. So what gives? They are going to be used as a tool to have more control of people, speed restrictions, ownership, location, anything that they need basically - you can see these modern cars already ablaze with this tech and it won't get any better. EVs in 2030 will be pretty scary, the AI and technology loaded onto them, people won't be driving these things anymore, someone else will have more control than the driver itself 

When combustion engine cars get suddenly decommissioning across the world red flags appear, to me anyway and it's only with the G7 nation's. The same cars that contribute zero greenhouse gases in the UK towards the global footprint, it's not the car that's the sole problem with the climate change, but science expert's, or more precise science expert's paid by said governments that are telling us otherwise. Most of the greenhouse gases are due to 20 or so multinational companies who are seemingly exempt from this yet responsible for over a third of emissions but the responsibility is on me, you and everyone else reading this to buck up and buy an electric car.

No one questions anything, that's the problem. 

[Las Palmas]

Miracles still happen.

Today fuel was priced 1 centime lower.

Hope it will continue that way.

[Bluemarlin]

33 minutes ago, toffee_pie said:

They are going to be used as a tool to have more control of people, speed restrictions, ownership, location, anything that they need basically - you can see these modern cars already ablaze with this tech and it won't get any better. EVs in 2030 will be pretty scary, the AI and technology loaded onto them, people won't be driving these things anymore, someone else will have more control than the driver itself.

 

Surely that's a separate argument though, as all that tech could be included regardless of how the car is propelled.

[javadude]

14 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

Climate change is a complex world, but government's are using it as a tool to enable the future that is set out. Now electric cars and being an established electronic engineer (just spent the last week doing EMC testing on the product I designed) I can assure you electric cars green credentials are not at all what you are led to believe. So what gives? They are going to be used as a tool to have more control of people, speed restrictions, ownership, location, anything that they need basically - you can see these modern cars already ablaze with this tech and it won't get any better. EVs in 2030 will be pretty scary, the AI and technology loaded onto them, people won't be driving these things anymore, someone else will have more control than the driver itself 

When combustion engine cars get suddenly decommissioning across the world red flags appear, to me anyway and it's only with the G7 nation's. The same cars that contribute zero greenhouse gases in the UK towards the global footprint, it's not the car that's the sole problem with the climate change, but science expert's, or more precise science expert's paid by said governments that are telling us otherwise. Most of the greenhouse gases are due to 20 or so multinational companies who are seemingly exempt from this yet responsible for over a third of emissions but the responsibility is on me, you and everyone else reading this to buck up and buy an electric car.

No one questions anything, that's the problem. 

You're right, EVs still involve a lot of CO2, but a lot less than ICE cars.

So there's a conspiracy between the governments of the world to push us into cars that are more difficult to tax, cheaper to fuel (and aren't enslaved by the major oil companies), more reliable, cheaper to maintain, and can be both more fun and more relaxing to drive than ICE cars? Hmmm doesn't seem so bad! If it's just to be able to control us with things like speed limiters then.... that's coming in anyway regardless of the fuel type. Given how crap our government are at promoting EVs and supporting charging infrastructure it seems more like something that's been forced on them that they're paying some kind of lip-service to than is coming from them. Norway are doing a good job (85% EV sales in May). Maybe there's a conspiracy there.

 

[Malc]

14 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

No one questions anything, that's the problem. 

you have, me too ....... and there's no way an EV of any sort will be of much use trying to traverse the Gobi or Sahara, the Oz Outback, most of Africa and South America too ..............

this global EV really is a nonsense ............. of course nobody knows much about China ............ and India isn't capable of popping EV charging points at each household ..  all those new multi story housing blocks eh ! 

Good 'ol 4ltr V8s are the way to go ............ 

Malc

[flotsam]

A go-slow on the M4 means drivers caught up in it will expend more fuel. They've pulled this stunt before, when truck drivers, supposedly protesting high fuel prices, formed a convoy. Another time a truck driver blocked the entrance to a fuel depot, again supposedly protesting high fuel prices. Then there's Francis Maude suggesting drivers store petrol in their garden sheds, which resulted in panic buying. Similarly, astro-turf group "Insulate Britain" protests by gluing themselves to junctions on the M25.

Obviously, with the rocketing prices they can't shift the petrol as fast as they want.

The government has also lifted the anti-trust ban on petrol retailers colluding.

I could be wrong, but it seems the traffic lights are also MUCH slower in turning green with the result that traffic in both directions is sitting there waiting.

Empty shelves mean you either bulk buy or buy an alternative (often more expensive) or have to go to more than one supermarket, expending more fuel.

Several weeks ago where I live, all the roads were blocked on the weekend in town so that no one could get to the discount supermarkets. I had to shop at Asda instead.

Over Christmas, my ISP was stuffing data so that I ran out. I usually only use half of my allowance. So I bought extra data. But that ran out twice more. After lost of complaining they admitted they were ripping me off and gave me my money back.

[Brian R]

I watch the oil price quite religiously given it has an impact on some of my finances and if the truth be known on just about all of us either directly or indirectly. The good news is that the barrel cost has been falling quite significantly and is now under $100/barrel with it falling to $95/barrel earlier in the week. This should shortly translate into falling prices at the pumps given the barrel cost is currently down from its peak by some $25/barrel. I really can't say whether this will be a long term or short term aberration but I suspect the latter.

See here for a graphic illustration.

[Las Palmas]

15 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

Climate change is a complex world, but government's are using it as a tool to enable the future that is set out.

Everything is complex as long as stupid politicians are being influenced by the only thing that really matter: MONEY!

Now politicians look at gas as green fuel as well as electricity generated by atom fuelled plants.

[royoftherovers]

On 7/5/2022 at 2:36 PM, javadude said:

So you don't believe climate change exists? Or you think there's a better solution than EVs? Or the price of fuel is to push people into EVs? Not sure what you're saying.

And I`m not sure what you are asking Java.

[toffee_pie]

Politicians are only motivated by money, the Tory empire is crumbling now which can only be a good thing.