Fuel panic!

[dutchie01]

Hah! thats nothing. We win todays Petrol lottery. Euro 2.63/ltr for 98 octane. And rising. 

Out of curiosity i looked up used carprices of the Tesla model S. The first generation went with free supercharging for life. Bizarre prices for 8 year old cars with 500k km.....

 

 

 

 

 

[toffee_pie]

35 minutes ago, Sundance said:

What are you lot prattling on about .....?!? 🙃

Back on topic ...

£2.00 per litre for Esso Supreme (E5) has arrived at the leafy East Surrey Downs! 🙄

I think that's around £7.53 per gallon in old money. 🤭

£10.00 a gallon anytime soon ? ... 🤔

Rattling about the BS that's going on in the world right now that nobody is allowed question. 

Oil companies are soaring in record breaking multi billion pound profits.. that's the last quarter mind

Combustion engine cars are banned without any referendum or public opinion everywhere in the world, it just happened. 

Speaking of which, combustion engine cars in the UK contribute about 0.0004 percent of global greenhouse gases worldwide

Low emission zones getting rolled out gradually until traditional cars are banned

The problem is most people seem to think what's occuring is fine, it's the covid / stroke Ukraine war bla bla.. 

It's nothing to do with either but everything to do with the UNECE manifesto for 2030, it's no coincidence that all this stuff is happening right now 

Electric cars are inherently digital devices, far easier for Government's to manipulate and control, ask anyone working for JLR, Audi, BMW and Mercedes and they will confirm that the level of integration with the internet and personal information on cars made now is off the scale relative to previous cars we were used to.  

The sad thing is people are buying Electric cars thinking they are doing their bit for the environment, I can do my bit by recycling food stuffs and not being a pig. That helps too

[toffee_pie]

My last tank was £100.1 if that matters, 53.56L so not even full 

[ganzoom]

9 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

The sad thing is people are buying Electric cars thinking they are doing their bit for the environment, I can do my bit by recycling food stuffs and not being a pig. That helps too

I think you will find tax incentives, cheap running costs are the actual reason many of people (like my self) jumped on the EV bandwagon very early.

I was actually half looking at an GS-F, F10 M5, XJR supersport back in 2016 before the light bulb moment hit me on how EVs would me access to fast cars that cost next to nothing to run, for similar initial purchase costs as high performance combustion cars. I distinctly remember even going to the local Lexus dealer to have a look at the newly released GS-F, to ensure I wasn't going mad paying the same ££££££ for an EV.

With the way fuel prices are going even our relative efficient IS300H is getting painful to refuel, where as the running costs of our EV remains comical in comparison.

Just done a big holiday road trip in our EV, and because we were early adopters we have 'free for life' charging at Tesla Superchargers. That + ability to charge off solar for 'free' at home means over the last months, doing 1,300 miles has cost only £31 in fuel, or around 2p per mile.

I dare not work out how many miles I would get from an GS-F right now for £31....Which probably explains why despite the almost identical purchases price back in 2016, our EV has barely depreciated by £15k in 5.5 years whilst a GS-F has lost £35k. I suspect by the end of this year our EV will probably APPERICATE in value, and honestly who would want to run a V8 saloon that does 20mpg daily??

Add in all other incentives we got for getting an EV early (bought our first EV in 2015), like x3 free chargers installed at x3 different addresses, free electricity for about 12 months as a government trial back in 2017, free wheels/home Battery as part of a referral program with Tesla.....Getting an EV early has been the best financial decision I've ever made when it comes to car purchasing!!! And I haven't even claimed any tax benefits, some people who know how to game the tax system will have had coming up to a decade of totally free EV ownership I suspect.

But I do actually care abit about reducing my energy foot print which is why I go to work on this these days.....But what's amazing about the running cost of EVs is, by the time I've taken into account the cost of stuff like panniers, locks, lights, reflective jackets, I've had to buy for the pedal bike, over the 2.5 years running our 2.5 ton, 6 seater, sub 5 second to 60mph has been CHEAPER to run/own per mile!!!!!

Absolutely crazy situation 🤣

 

[ganzoom]

9 hours ago, dutchie01 said:

Out of curiosity i looked up used carprices of the Tesla model S. The first generation went with free supercharging for life. Bizarre prices for 8 year old cars with 500k km.....

And with the way electricity prices are also going up, we can all probably predict which way used prices on these Teslas will go. Its more amazing any owner of these cars would even want to sell them right now, 'free' fuel for essentially forever, honestly why would you give that up??

[First_Lexus]

Between £1.71 and £1.88 here for standard unleaded. The only good news for people like me is that I now WFH nearly all of the time. That means my fuel use and cost is either the same or lower than it was pre-pandemic, which was one of the reasons I went for an RX while I still could.

I have much sympathy for those who rely on their cars and who are being squeezed by these price increases. Personally I believe the Government should look at reducing VAT on fuel, even if only temporarily.

[The-Acre]

19 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

Rattling about the BS that's going on in the world right now that nobody is allowed question. 

Oil companies are soaring in record breaking multi billion pound profits.. that's the last quarter mind

Combustion engine cars are banned without any referendum or public opinion everywhere in the world, it just happened. 

Speaking of which, combustion engine cars in the UK contribute about 0.0004 percent of global greenhouse gases worldwide

Low emission zones getting rolled out gradually until traditional cars are banned

The problem is most people seem to think what's occuring is fine, it's the covid / stroke Ukraine war bla bla.. 

It's nothing to do with either but everything to do with the UNECE manifesto for 2030, it's no coincidence that all this stuff is happening right now 

Electric cars are inherently digital devices, far easier for Government's to manipulate and control, ask anyone working for JLR, Audi, BMW and Mercedes and they will confirm that the level of integration with the internet and personal information on cars made now is off the scale relative to previous cars we were used to.  

The sad thing is people are buying Electric cars thinking they are doing their bit for the environment, I can do my bit by recycling food stuffs and not being a pig. That helps too

I tend to agree with you on this. Ukraine and covid are a gift for a government sucking up to the green agenda, it's a perfect excuse for the high price of fuel. They were rocketing up before Ukraine was news but now there's someone to blame. 

[toffee_pie]

Blaming COVID and the Ukraine war for everything is absolutely bullock, Shell and BP are just laughing at us mere mortals. This is just pure greed and gradually wearing the patience out of people to get rid of perfectly normal gasoline cars to turn them to digital automated sheep for the digital age of 2030

As for EVs, they are not for me for 3 reasons.

1. I drive quite brisk and had I am EV I would a) have to spend about £100k for one that can do 500 miles on a single charge, or b) suck up a bog standard one that will have me charging the damn thing up every other day and between long runs and having me stay in hotels overnight

The Subaru of mine (3 litres) been to Ireland in the last few weeks,  Co Kerry on a single tank - from South Gloustershire, that is driving at around 60mph average I would think also as well as plenty of runs near to 80mph

Get me a EV that can do that..unless you are driving like miss daisy you wont - we are told oh, EVs are quick - well yes they are up to about 5 seconds, try maintaining that speed eh? see how your range anxiety is then

2. They are dull as a dishwasher to drive, dont get me started

3. Combiustion cars in the UK contruibe basically nil greenhouse gases globally, its not the cars that is the problem its multinational companies and coal that is the chief culprit but governments and science eperts are making you feel guilty about the planet

[toffee_pie]

15 hours ago, ganzoom said:

EVs would me access to fast cars

'Fast' For how long? a pricey Jaguar IPace will get about 200 miles on a tank doing 70mph, so less than half of my 14 year old 6 pot Subaru which can go further, quicker, I can get around 35mpg doing this speed constantly and with its full time AWD with 50:50 bias and a torsen LSD it will handle superior to a EV with its monstrous Battery packs on board

[Sundance]

24 minutes ago, toffee_pie said:

Blaming COVID and the Ukraine war for everything is absolutely bullock, Shell and BP are just laughing at us mere mortals. This is just pure greed and gradually wearing the patience out of people to get rid of perfectly normal gasoline cars to turn them to digital automated sheep for the digital age of 2030

Not quite sure who's blaming Covid for rising fuel prices but with great respect Eric if you don't think the Ukraine conflict has anything to do with it then I would suggest you think again. 😉 

[toffee_pie]

1 minute ago, Sundance said:

Not quite sure who's blaming Covid for rising fuel prices but with great respect Eric if you don't think the Ukraine conflict has anything to do with it then I would suggest you think again. 😉 

The USA is in the same boat with this fuel price nonsense, they get over 80% of oil from Canada

But the excuse American's are told is Ukraine war

hence

31 minutes ago, toffee_pie said:

Blaming COVID and the Ukraine war for everything is absolutely bullock

 

[Sundance]

10 minutes ago, toffee_pie said:

The USA is in the same boat with this fuel price nonsense, they get over 80% of oil from Canada

But the excuse American's are told is Ukraine war

Sorry, I thought the topic was UK fuel prices, my mistake. 🤷‍♂️

[McShmoopy]

The Ukraine war has had an effect on fuel prices and most other things for sure, no one can deny that. That being said its as Eric said, the government and greedy oil companies have been raising pricing and causing speculative panic well before the war started so to blame it all on that is fairly naive. That being said, the government have been screwing us left right and centre for quite a number of years so I can't say its all that surprising. Things are getting so bad I'm considering getting a CT200H to replace my beloved IS250 🙄

[ganzoom]

2 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

'Fast' For how long? a pricey Jaguar IPace will get about 200 miles on a tank doing 70mph, so less than half of my 14 year old 6 pot Subaru which can go further, quicker, I can get around 35mpg doing this speed constantly and with its full time AWD with 50:50 bias and a torsen LSD it will handle superior to a EV with its monstrous battery packs on board

We did 750 miles recently at the national speed with no issues on range. 

What I also find 'fun' about 'fast' is accleration and smaller roads. Mway driving at 70mph is as dull as it get, and these days for those kind of roads am glad for Autopilot.

However for short bits of fun speed, the EV is fantastic. Am sure you know the feeling seeing the fuel gauge drop every time you go WOT especially in a Scooby.....sub 10mpg at WOT isn't going to go unnoticed at near £2/l for fuel, versus even at worst 10p per mile on fuel for an EV doing the same thing.

The amount of noise and drama made versus inability to pull away from a 6 seater SUV is pretty comical.....so slow and expensive to run, why would you buy an combustion performance car over an EV??

 

 

 

[The-Acre]

The other issue I have with EV's is the fact that hardly anyone will be able to do anything apart from very simple repairs. For some of us it's a huge saving to be able to fix our cars if they go wrong. It's another reason why EV's will only be for the financially better off, especially for those wanting to do longer journeys like holidays. 

[Malc]

when the Nio marque style of re-placing  Battery for EV fuel comes to the UK ........... then I feel more people might move to EV ............  practicalities ..........  but till then a super doopa V8 4 ltr or more limo is surely the sensible way to go 

My thoughts are that with temporary increasing oil prices ......... then more " safe " countries like Brazil ............will dig into their known enormous offshore reserves and begin to flood the market ....... supply and demand ..... and world prices will reduce to a more sensible level likewise oil company and Govt profits too

Malc

[dutchie01]

Food for thought.  Main reason petrol is so expensive is the increased price of crude oil, or so we are told.

One barrel now goes for 120 USD.

in the middle of 2008 a barrel did 140 USD so 20 USD higher than now. 

And petrol? at 140/barrel 1 litre went for Euro 1.50 against 2.50/ltr now at 120/barrel.

WHO can explain that??

[wharfhouse]

3 hours ago, dutchie01 said:

Food for thought.  Main reason petrol is so expensive is the increased price of crude oil, or so we are told.

One barrel now goes for 120 USD.

in the middle of 2008 a barrel did 140 USD so 20 USD higher than now. 

And petrol? at 140/barrel 1 litre went for Euro 1.50 against 2.50/ltr now at 120/barrel.

WHO can explain that??

Refiners are also making a killing adding to the overall high prices at the pumps: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61750251

[Malc]

I'm just filling-up from time to time whem I see the best value around and I'm passing the petrol station ....  E5 in my Lexus and E10 in the Honda Legend ....  and knowing my local Asda and Sainsbury do NOT sell E5 takes them out of the equation BUT they all sell E10 and then I'm stumped coz I also try to calculate the value of the Nectar points and Tesco points when the Honda is passing those doors too .............. there's a plethora of BP garages and also an Amoco ( which does Nectar points ) .....  BP no longer do Nectar points they tell me 

The BP and Amoco are always stupidly higher prices whatever ....  and a little further afield there's a Shell garage at even sillier prices than BP and Amoco ( do Shell do points too ? ) 

I'm beyond understanding how they all get their dose of refuellings and the profits they make, nor the oil companies too, nor the processors BUT what I do know is that for every litre they sell the Govt, yes, us dear old taxpayers as ultimate beneficiaries, get a huge amount of revenue to line our coffers

So just pay up and know for certain that a huge chunk of the price we pay at the pump goes back directly to helping US, YOU and ME, for the future ........  look at it as a form of compulsory savings maybe 

Malc

[ganzoom]

14 hours ago, The-Acre said:

The other issue I have with EV's is the fact that hardly anyone will be able to do anything apart from very simple repairs. For some of us it's a huge saving to be able to fix our cars if they go wrong. It's another reason why EV's will only be for the financially better off, especially for those wanting to do longer journeys like holidays. 

Actually EVs are very easy to repair. The local garage literally down the road replaced the PTC heater in our Model X recently (a 'known' fault') with zero issues. In the states independent garages can do essentially entire drive train swaps on EVs (so different Battery + motors). Everything on an EV, suspension essentially, is the same as any other car, but workshop access to bolts/fittings is often easier as there isn't a massive engine + oil lines every where. 

[The-Acre]

11 hours ago, ganzoom said:

Actually EVs are very easy to repair. The local garage literally down the road replaced the PTC heater in our Model X recently (a 'known' fault') with zero issues. In the states independent garages can do essentially entire drive train swaps on EVs (so different battery + motors). Everything on an EV, suspension essentially, is the same as any other car, but workshop access to bolts/fittings is often easier as there isn't a massive engine + oil lines every where. 

I understand that, and that "service parts" are pretty much the same as a conventional car, I'm really refering to the real danger of inexperienced people trying to save money with DIY maintenance and the very real danger of electric shocks. 

[Boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, The-Acre said:

I understand that, and that "service parts" are pretty much the same as a conventional car, I'm really refering to the real danger of inexperienced people trying to save money with DIY maintenance and the very real danger of electric shocks. 

You mean the same electric shocks that have been available on all the Lexus/Toyota Hybrids for over a decade. 😉

[GMB]

Our lexus dealer gave us a 100% electric thing maybe a UX? After 20 minutes I was bored stiff with it. The heater was useless ( it was December ). Glad I don't have one.

What a joy to get back in a proper car that has a character - the IsF.

On the issue of rip-off fuel prices don't forget the government duty and tax take on every litre. As of today they have only given back 5p duty, most of which was nicked by the petrol companies. They need to halve the VAT and they will still be making a mint.

Between the fuel companies and the Gov't we are all being taken for an expensive ride. Why do we put up with this. The French would be burning tyres and toll booths by now.

[LenT]

On 6/9/2022 at 9:08 PM, toffee_pie said:

The USA is in the same boat with this fuel price nonsense, they get over 80% of oil from Canada

On a point of information, ERIC, according to the US Energy Information Administration, in 2021 the US imported 4.34 million barrels per day of petroleum products - which includes crude oil - from Canada.  This equated to 51% of their Gross Imports.

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=727&t=6

I hope this helps.

[GMB]

15 hours ago, Malc said:

I'm just filling-up from time to time whem I see the best value around and I'm passing the petrol station ....  E5 in my Lexus and E10 in the Honda Legend ....  and knowing my local Asda and Sainsbury do NOT sell E5 takes them out of the equation BUT they all sell E10 and then I'm stumped coz I also try to calculate the value of the Nectar points and Tesco points when the Honda is passing those doors too .............. there's a plethora of BP garages and also an Amoco ( which does Nectar points ) .....  BP no longer do Nectar points they tell me 

The BP and Amoco are always stupidly higher prices whatever ....  and a little further afield there's a Shell garage at even sillier prices than BP and Amoco ( do Shell do points too ? ) 

I'm beyond understanding how they all get their dose of refuellings and the profits they make, nor the oil companies too, nor the processors BUT what I do know is that for every litre they sell the Govt, yes, us dear old taxpayers as ultimate beneficiaries, get a huge amount of revenue to line our coffers

So just pay up and know for certain that a huge chunk of the price we pay at the pump goes back directly to helping US, YOU and ME, for the future ........  look at it as a form of compulsory savings maybe 

Malc

Hi Malc - I like the sarcasm.  What a lovely thought, that the government are taxing us for our benefit. Maybe if you were one of their mates you might get some return on the investment, but the money is not going to the NHS or any other organisation that benefits the general public.

Don't get me started I could go on forever ..........