Fuel panic!

[Mr Vlad]

I agree with David and you Malc. If I had the option of buying another car one ICE the other EV and both the same price I'd actually go ICE even tho an EV makes perfect sense for me. Its the charging. To install a home charger at my home would cost a good few thousand quid. Wiring one in would be a doddle but it's the work involved in placing the charger as it would be at the bottom of my garden as my car driveway is there. Anyway as I've said previously I want to keep my is250 for as long as possible (unless I win a fair bit of wonga then I'd get RCF).

[PaulWhitt20]

[toffee_pie]

Batteries degrade, it's not up for debate. I would trust testing batteries with hardware rather than built in software. Remember the diesel gate...

The correct way to assess a Battery performance is to do several charge discharge event's and repeat at different conditions and see how much cell resistance has increased, compare with the OEM specifications.

I have used Maccor equipment which is what I would use for such tests. 

Furthermore when batteries reach 60 or 70 percent capacity they are at the end of the road and no longer hold charge very well, the first 30 percent will hold charge for quite a while but it's downhill from there on.

[toffee_pie]

If you have the patience of a saint and can handle anxiety get a EV. I've absolutely no time for faffing with electric vehicles and would sooner use a reliable 6 or 8 cylinder Petrol car any day of the week.

[Malc]

I remember posting on here a while back about the Climate Change Conference .....   or the Forum Post about EVs somewhere ..  and that several delegates embarrasingly  arrived late, maybe by a day or so maybe ............ coz of their EVs running out of distance ........  enuf charge for the road ahead ..... 

Malc

[toffee_pie]

@Boxbrownie

Laughing because you haven't a clue about batteries, makes sense that, how's your i3 with its 100 percent Battery? 

👌

 

[ganzoom]

1 hour ago, toffee_pie said:

If you have the patience of a saint and can handle anxiety get a EV. I've absolutely no time for faffing with electric vehicles and would sooner use a reliable 6 or 8 cylinder Petrol car any day of the week.

Thats funny because we are planning this trip in the summer in our 5 year old (which according to you and other on here should have a dead Battery by now;). We could take our Lexus, but the EV is simply the better car.

Last summer went to the Highlands and Dartmoor both during school holidays, pre-pandemic we went to France in our EV. I've been lucky enough to own and drive some amazing combustion cars, but these days I have no time for them. EVs work and work well already, so unless you love love living in the past am not sure why anyone would choose a combustion car over an EV?

[Mr Vlad]

You have an excellent car Gang. When they came out I fell for them. Fitted my circumstances then perfectly. Great range and with tesla having their own charging infrastructure a no brained to have one. Wouldn't get one coz well n truly out of my price bracket. You ask why would anyone choose an ICE car, but you started with living in the past, over an EV. I'll answer that personally and I think many many others would agree. Living in the past eh? Well I'd go back there If I could. Less cars on the road. Riding my motorbikes without a care in the world, out run any copper in his tin top, oh happy days lol. But my answer is a simple one. The noise of that V6 or V8 or turbocharged 4 cylinders with a tunes zorst. Can't get that in an EV. Oh and another reason. The sound of the hifi is poor and yes I have tested systems in 2 tesla and my brothers iPace with the high spec system. None are better than the ML and definitely not better than the systems I built in the 80's and 90's. 

[ALAW]

Something interesting that crossed my eye today. Volvo are experimenting with wireless charging of EV,s. From a motoring point of view i thought Mmmmm interesting especially as we are on about a fuel panic in this thread. Thinking that would help the EV anxiety that many appear to have. Surely that would mean you will probably be able to put a charge in at more locations. I dont know but experimental at moment by sounds of it. Think i read it on Microsoft somewhere.

[Boxbrownie]

15 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

@Boxbrownie

Laughing because you haven't a clue about batteries, makes sense that, how's your i3 with its 100 percent battery? 

👌

 

Well you must know loads about batteries and how to look after them, after all after just one year your laptop Battery is now at 70%

 

Oh yes, I am laughing 😉

[Malc]

14 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

The noise of that V6 or V8

Oh my ..........  I've never been able to determine any appreciable noise from my V8 .......  indeed occasionally been at the heels of pedsetrians who had no idea my Lexus was so so very quietly yapping at their heels .....  guess the Ls400 always was and continues to be that rare quiet beast 

Malc

[First_Lexus]

16 hours ago, ganzoom said:

EVs work and work well already, so unless you love love living in the past am not sure why anyone would choose a combustion car over an EV?

@ganzoom

I’ll try to answer your question as honestly as I can. I’m not technically minded at all. I don’t understand how EVs or batteries work, and I don’t really want to. I also don’t understand how the combustion engine works, and also don’t want to!

My choice of vehicle is based on what I feel comfortable with. When I changed my NX last year, I did consider an EV. I actually like the idea of one, and I have a charger at home already. The problem was that I read threads like this - and numerous other things online - and have no idea what the real truth is. I know people on both sides have strong views but, ultimately, if I had gone for an EV I’d have been trusting the manufacturers in terms of range and - frankly - I wasn’t willing to do that. 

In addition, a very close friend bought a Jaguar i-Pace last year. He no longer has it, mainly because the range in Winter was so far below what he had been promised. He also struggled to charge easily away from home, finding that chargers were present but often with queues to use them that he found unacceptable.

All of that said, I’m waiting. I’m pretty sure my next car in three or four years will be an EV, when hopefully range is more consistent for my needs and infrastructure more developed. Once a week I complete a 250 mile round trip, and couldn’t live with the feeling that I’d be anxious of ‘running out’ of power.

I don’t consider my choice of another petrol powered car is living in the past. Actually, I think I’m living in the present and consider those using EVs to be ‘early adopters’ who are living in the future. 

I’m hoping that makes sense. Tbh I’m really glad that drivers like you are using EVs and proving that they can be practical. That will help me in a few years time, when hopefully some of my friends and family will have switched and I can be reassured by their experiences. Or not, obviously…

[Phil xxkr]

2 hours ago, First_Lexus said:

@ganzoom

I’ll try to answer your question as honestly as I can. I’m not technically minded at all. I don’t understand how EVs or batteries work, and I don’t really want to. I also don’t understand how the combustion engine works, and also don’t want to!

My choice of vehicle is based on what I feel comfortable with. When I changed my NX last year, I did consider an EV. I actually like the idea of one, and I have a charger at home already. The problem was that I read threads like this - and numerous other things online - and have no idea what the real truth is. I know people on both sides have strong views but, ultimately, if I had gone for an EV I’d have been trusting the manufacturers in terms of range and - frankly - I wasn’t willing to do that. 

In addition, a very close friend bought a Jaguar i-Pace last year. He no longer has it, mainly because the range in Winter was so far below what he had been promised. He also struggled to charge easily away from home, finding that chargers were present but often with queues to use them that he found unacceptable.

All of that said, I’m waiting. I’m pretty sure my next car in three or four years will be an EV, when hopefully range is more consistent for my needs and infrastructure more developed. Once a week I complete a 250 mile round trip, and couldn’t live with the feeling that I’d be anxious of ‘running out’ of power.

I don’t consider my choice of another petrol powered car is living in the past. Actually, I think I’m living in the present and consider those using EVs to be ‘early adopters’ who are living in the future. 

I’m hoping that makes sense. Tbh I’m really glad that drivers like you are using EVs and proving that they can be practical. That will help me in a few years time, when hopefully some of my friends and family will have switched and I can be reassured by their experiences. Or not, obviously…

They do say Ed you can find early "pioneers" on the track ahead with arrows in their back 🤠. As to living in the past I am sure that the people in Ukraine on February 23rd were looking forward to the future - we can all make our choices but unfortunately not the consequences especially the unintended ones. Almost 50 years ago I was working on a new fangled idea called Ethernet. Just look at how long it's taken to become, affordable, all pervasive, totally reliable, understandable. No idea how long EV's will need to around to be in the same position. 

[toffee_pie]

8 hours ago, Boxbrownie said:

Well you must know loads about batteries and how to look after them, after all after just one year your laptop battery is now at 70%

 

Oh yes, I am laughing 😉

My bad, its 85% - since it was installed in March 2021 - so 15% gone in 12 months

so, how is your BMW i3 going with its 100% Battery?

You dont have a clue about batteries, so trying to argue your case will be a hard sell

[toffee_pie]

 

EVs have their place in society, but not at the way I am seeing it -- ie forced to purchase one to save the planet - which is absolute bull

It will be a bleak future for motorists

I was attending a webinar a while back about Electronics and EMC and all that stuff but the chap presenting who was some highly experienced bod from the USA was doing some nice comparisons to get across the point he was making - in one situation he referred to manual transmission and autos -- what has that got to do with EMC and Electronics? well he was discussing the 'wizards' so popular now in EDA tools that allow you to do things .. basically, anything really autonomously, and his point was that people are using these wizard shortcuts without fully even understand what it is they are doing.  Now the transmission comparison comes into play – if you drive a mechanical box you are fully aware of the consequences of your actions and what it is you are doing.

Cars of the future will be so fully loaded with tech and rubbish no one will have any idea of what’s going on half the time, nor will they be in control of the car itself -- well that is perfect as that’s what the government want.

[toffee_pie]

23 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

You have an excellent car Gang. When they came out I fell for them. Fitted my circumstances then perfectly. Great range and with tesla having their own charging infrastructure a no brained to have one. Wouldn't get one coz well n truly out of my price bracket. You ask why would anyone choose an ICE car, but you started with living in the past, over an EV. I'll answer that personally and I think many many others would agree. Living in the past eh? Well I'd go back there If I could. Less cars on the road. Riding my motorbikes without a care in the world, out run any copper in his tin top, oh happy days lol. But my answer is a simple one. The noise of that V6 or V8 or turbocharged 4 cylinders with a tunes zorst. Can't get that in an EV. Oh and another reason. The sound of the hifi is poor and yes I have tested systems in 2 tesla and my brothers iPace with the high spec system. None are better than the ML and definitely not better than the systems I built in the 80's and 90's. 

You cant warm your cojones either in the winter with a EV- as per my previous post there is nothing wrong with a EV itself, but the Government's demand that everyone get one is what is wrong - very wrong.  We are told all the good stuff about EVs but no one is telling us the bad news and if they were as good as the manufacturers make out Scotty Kilmer would be reviewing EVs on his channel for the last year non stop - but he has not got one.

Any Tesla is not able to compete with a high end Lexus for build quality and finish, heck even a IS250. They cost 30K dollars to make and are sold for three times that - hence the money Musk is earning

[ganzoom]

8 hours ago, First_Lexus said:

 

I don’t consider my choice of another petrol powered car is living in the past. Actually, I think I’m living in the present and consider those using EVs to be ‘early adopters’ who are living in the future. 

I suppose is all relative. I don't consider my self an early adopter, but I've had an EV since 2015, so this is my 7th year owning an EV.

The real 'early adopters' are those who bought a Leaf/Tesla back in 2011......For me buying a brand new combustion car is utter madness.

[ganzoom]

19 minutes ago, toffee_pie said:

They cost 30K dollars to make and are sold for three times that - hence the money Musk is earning

You might have missed the main point of any business......to make money!!! Last time I checked a high profit margin was seen as a good thing for a company to achieve? 

[Mr Vlad]

Eh up Eric. Why did you quote me? I mentioned Gang's tesla because I actually like that car plus teslas charging Infrastructure. I didn't mention build quality at all. Unfortunately I have read numerous articles about poor build quality on teslas which is a shame. As for Lexus own build quality I'd put my 14 year old is250 against any new lexus.

[toffee_pie]

44 minutes ago, ganzoom said:

I suppose is all relative. I don't consider my self an early adopter, but I've had an EV since 2015, so this is my 7th year owning an EV.

The real 'early adopters' are those who bought a Leaf/Tesla back in 2011......For me buying a brand new combustion car is utter madness.

Are you buying EVs for environmental reasons or purely for lower TCO over a combustion car? I would never get a EV as I dont have patience to faff around with one, I could get one if I wanted but they dont fit my charqacter. My local Tesco is one of the largest in the land and they have no EV chargers as far as I know.

If I was driving on a long road trip I would be forever worried about my speed, will I run out of juice, there are several cars in front of me here can I overtake them? where is the next charge point and will it even work - if it does do I need to book and hotel stay or drink 50 cups of coffee and pass out while waiting for it to charge. They have no redeeming driving characteristics either, which is nil points for me too, I want a car that I actually look forward to driving each day and is relatively quick - EVs are quick, or can be for about 10 seconds on acceleraton but try maintaining that speed or doing overtakes and your range will plummet - I can drive a constant 70mph on my Subaru and get around 350-400 on a tank, that is just pressing on and not dwadling - if you tried that in a EV you would need to book a hotel room for the night.

If I was living in a urban environmment with plenty access to EV charge points I probably would consider one but it would be on my terms, not because I am doing my bit for saving the planet or listening to 'experts'.

[toffee_pie]

18 minutes ago, Mr Vlad said:

Eh up Eric. Why did you quote me? I mentioned Gang's tesla because I actually like that car plus teslas charging Infrastructure. I didn't mention build quality at all. Unfortunately I have read numerous articles about poor build quality on teslas which is a shame. As for Lexus own build quality I'd put my 14 year old is250 against any new lexus.

I agree on the Tesla fast charge network, its probably the best thing about the cars. I quoted you as you were talking about the negatives on EVs, I just added another (lack of heaters in winter -- but wait, you can get a winter heater pack! - powered by batteries I guess...😍)

[toffee_pie]

38 minutes ago, ganzoom said:

You might have missed the main point of any business......to make money!!! Last time I checked a high profit margin was seen as a good thing for a company to achieve? 

They are sold as a 'premium' car but most people, certainly those with knowledge know that is far from the case. Business is all about making money, its how you go about it however. 

[ganzoom]

27 minutes ago, toffee_pie said:

Are you buying EVs for environmental reasons or purely for lower TCO over a combustion car? 

Neither, I love our Tesla because it's CAR I have ever owned regardless of powertrain. My last combustion was a N54 335i that I had spent a fair amount of money on to get it to around 400whp, Qauife LSD, and Bilsten suspension. I was on the verge of buying a M5 or XJR supersport.

It was actually the 'EV' mode of our IS300H that got me interested in EVs. I took a test drive in a Leaf and the BMW was sold by the end of the week. 

For me EVs aren't the future they are here and now. The only thing stopping us trading in the IS300H for another EV is £££££. The IS does barely 3000 miles a year, and with a massive house renovation project coming up swapping it for a new EV doesn't work for us. 

An EV has been our main family car since 2015, we've done 75k miles in EVs now. There is zero chance of us getting another combustion car.

[ganzoom]

30 minutes ago, toffee_pie said:

If I was driving on a long road trip I would be forever worried about my speed

I love long road trips. The last proper long road trip we did was a 3000 mile trip to the Swiss alps. We had planned a trip to Norway for 2020 in our Tesla, but we all know what happend next.

But fingers crossed we'll be able to do the Norway trip this year :).

[toffee_pie]

1 hour ago, ganzoom said:

I took a test drive in a Leaf and the BMW was sold by the end of the week. 

Really, what was wrong with your 335i