Early LS460 and E10 fuel...

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

The government website says that early LS460s aren't compatible with E10 fuel. My car, built in December 2006, is in that category. 

 

Does anyone know why this is the case, and what implications it would have running E10? I think a few tanks ago I used E10 before I realised it was E10 only now, it was only a few hundred miles and I've since used E5 super unleaded, and I've absolutely no worries that has caused any harm. I'm just wondering if anyone knows why early cars are not compatible, and what issues would arise from using E10 fuel. 

 

Thanks in advance, 

 

Ross. 

[Tinonline]

The usual side effects impact the fuel system seals, components etc. The engine will run ok.

I’m certain a one off or few more uses will not cause harm; long term use would be an issue: a lot of motorists including myself, are doing modest annual mileage and have opted to keep using E5 although it means higher costs for the Premium fuel: I had already decided to stay off the standard unleaded. My late 400 is cleared for E10 but while I have the choice I’m going to exercise it!

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

Thanks for your reply. Seems strange they'd have changed any seals etc so early on in the production, and not at face-lift time. 

[Chris111]

I can't answer your question as to why your early LS460 (along with the early IS250 and GS300) is not compatible but this link from the RAC explains the damage that can be caused to an incompatible car

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/emissions/what-is-e10-fuel-and-how-could-it-affect-you/

[runsgrateasanut]

33 minutes ago, Chris111 said:

I can't answer your question as to why your early LS460 (along with the early IS250 and GS300) is not compatible but this link from the RAC explains the damage that can be caused to an incompatible car

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/emissions/what-is-e10-fuel-and-how-could-it-affect-you/

Only the V6 GS is not compatible. The straight six from 1998 is compatible according to the DVLA. Why the variance?- good question. I have a straight six.  Not sure about the GS430 as that will be a V8 engine like the LS430.  

[BigBoomer]

Almost certainly these models will have unlined steel petrol tanks, or have plastic & rubber in the fuel system that is incompatible with E10 fuel.
You will need to contact Lexus directly to get a full answer.

[royoftherovers]

Just fill up with Super unleaded and problem solved ?

Admittedly it makes motoring more expensive.

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

Just now, royoftherovers said:

Just fill up with Super unleaded and problem solved ?

Admittedly it makes motoring more expensive.

I state in my original post I use super unleaded.....? Yes, it makes motoring more expensive, my question wasn't really asking can I use E10, it was why I couldn't. I already know to fill up with E5, hence I said so in my original post 😁

[royoftherovers]

3 minutes ago, TyrannosauRoss Lex said:

I state in my original post I use super unleaded.....? Yes, it makes motoring more expensive, my question wasn't really asking can I use E10, it was why I couldn't. I already know to fill up with E5, hence I said so in my original post 😁

Thanks Ross I`m more dopey than usual this morning.

[MJB18]

I wonder if it's something to do with this -

Apparently in 2009 Lexus did a recall to replace the fuel pipes in the affected models due to the effects of ethanol - but only in the US

https://www.autoblog.com/2009/01/20/ethanol-leads-to-recall-of-some-lexus-models/

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

4 minutes ago, MJB18 said:

I wonder if it's something to do with this -

Apparently in 2009 Lexus did a recall to replace the fuel pipes in the affected models due to the effects of ethanol - but only in the US

https://www.autoblog.com/2009/01/20/ethanol-leads-to-recall-of-some-lexus-models/

Interesting thanks! 

[Malc]

45 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

Just fill up with Super unleaded and problem solved ?

Admittedly it makes motoring more expensive.

is that really so ?  I thought  I read somewhere that the reduction experienced in MPG from using E10 is compensated for by simply using the super unleaded E5 and the financial implications balance out ( maybe ) 

Malc

[MJB18]

I've just found some more info on this, apparently it's because of "aluminum" fuel pipes

https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/lexus-forced-to-recall-gs-is-and-ls-for/

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

55 minutes ago, MJB18 said:

I've just found some more info on this, apparently it's because of "aluminum" fuel pipes

https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/lexus-forced-to-recall-gs-is-and-ls-for/

Thanks for sharing that! 

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

I managed to fill up today, next weekend I'm heading on holiday (250+ mile drive) and I wanted to fill up in case I was limited to £30....it would still give me days to keep filling up. 

 

I had a little over 1/3 of a tank left (super unleaded) but I had to fill with E10, as they didn't have any super unleaded! I hope it'll be OK. The fuel will be almost all used by next Saturday, and then on the Sunday I may try to top up with super unleaded to "dilute it" down a bit. I'm sure not even a full tank of E10 will be OK...... Won't it!? 🤷🏼‍♀️😂

[Malc]

c'mon now, you've been filling up with E10 these past few weeks whatever ....  I noticed the green pumps were emblazoned stating it was E10 many weeks ago

It's only very recently that we've had the knowledge to be concerned that we should maybe be using E5 

I'm likewise too .............  hunting out the E5 sometime soon BUT if not I feel ok topping up with the occasional E10

Malc

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

1 minute ago, Malc said:

c'mon now, you've been filling up with E10 these past few weeks whatever ....  I noticed the green pumps were emblazoned stating it was E10 many weeks ago

It's only very recently that we've had the knowledge to be concerned that we should maybe be using E5 

I'm likewise too .............  hunting out the E5 sometime soon BUT if not I feel ok topping up with the occasional E10

Malc

I believe prior to this I've only used E10 once before. 

[Malc]

I really can't imagine that any harm will ensue from the rare and occasional refuelling with E10

The super unleaded my way starts at E5  and  97 octane in the green pump to

Esso  E5 super unleaded  99+ octane in the red pump

and many years ago touring Italy in this same Ls400 I found myself refuelling with which seemed like a novelty E10 specified green unleaded fuel ..  and that never seemed to do my car any harm for the few 000 miles on that trip

( now at 234k miles and happy )

I'd be surprised if your car will come to harm over this interlude

Malc

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

Thanks Malc 

[runsgrateasanut]

Been unable to fill up and not too bothered though only have less than a Quarter in the Tank. Awaiting the necessary Forms to prove had the Vaccine which will take five days. Tried to download using the App on my PC but after giving all details and a photo of my Driving Licence, it then wanted a selfie.  Don't have a Webcam and so phoned the three digit number and hoping will be sent irrespctive of not haivng a selfie or a copy Driving licence. What is this al about??  France trip held up yet again owing to beaurocracy, fuel issue and other personal issues. As MOT due on 14th Oct, have booked in for test.                

Now the Q. part, will using Fuel injection Cleaner be OK with the E5 or the E10 which I suspect will be the only alternative to diesel after a couple of years?   Gov't green madness!  (They need to watch this video - 

  I always used Wynns prodcut on these 600 mile trips into France.  Will it actually benefit performance  where E5 removes performance?  (apols video is rather long and can miss the first 20 mins i.m.o)

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

1 hour ago, runsgrateasanut said:

Been unable to fill up and not too bothered though only have less than a Quarter in the Tank. Awaiting the necessary Forms to prove had the Vaccine which will take five days. Tried to download using the App on my PC but after giving all details and a photo of my Driving Licence, it then wanted a selfie.  Don't have a Webcam and so phoned the three digit number and hoping will be sent irrespctive of not haivng a selfie or a copy Driving licence. What is this al about??  France trip held up yet again owing to beaurocracy, fuel issue and other personal issues. As MOT due on 14th Oct, have booked in for test.                

Now the Q. part, will using Fuel injection Cleaner be OK with the E5 or the E10 which I suspect will be the only alternative to diesel after a couple of years?   Gov't green madness!  (They need to watch this video - 

  I always used Wynns prodcut on these 600 mile trips into France.  Will it actually benefit performance  where E5 removes performance?  (apols video is rather long and can miss the first 20 mins i.m.o)

I'm not sure E5 fuel will be disappearing any time soon. It would write off many thousands of perfectly usable cars, largely fairly cheap cars, which people cannot necessarily afford to replace. Perhaps in another 10 years, but certainly not within the next few I shouldn't have thought. 

 

I guess if it were to happen, then you'd have a choice.... Find another car or replace the fuel lines and other bits necessary to get it to be safe to run E10 (fuel tank.....? Anything else?). I should imagine for an LS460 you'd probably be looking at a bill well over 4 figures, as a complete guess I'd have thought £2k minimum. Anyone care to guess? 

[Malc]

c'mon .....  we're running ancient cars too and there's always been, and always will be a solution with petrol additive or some such 

my 1932 Triumph car will continue with an additive for several decades to come methinks 

Malc

[Tinonline]

Some company will advice on conversions I’m sure. 
I did wonder if E10 introduction impacted the current shortage…

Did refiners just add a bit more E to existing stock? How long and complex was that?

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

Does anyone know if there are tangible benefits into running RON97 or 99 fuel on the '460 vs regular 95? Or is the car not "clever" enough to make use of it? I drove 290 miles in the LS460 today (what a magnificent motorway car!!) and despite pressing on at times the economy wasn't too bad at all. Managed to put in 53 litres of RON97 (Tesco were out of Momentum 99) so that will certainly dilute the E10 95 that was in there from last Friday.

 

I have been doing a lot of short trips in the car lately so it was a real pleasure to give it a proper run out. It is probably the best long-distance car I have ever been in or driven.

[runsgrateasanut]

On 10/2/2021 at 9:40 AM, Malc said:

c'mon .....  we're running ancient cars too and there's always been, and always will be a solution with petrol additive or some such 

my 1932 Triumph car will continue with an additive for several decades to come methinks 

Malc

You may be right, but replacing Lead with a substitute was simpler than replacing water content which this E10 seems to have. Some garages in France were only selling E10 several years ago and it would be interesting to know the profit benefit to Refineries of replacing part Petrol with E10 because the answer to that Question and the fact that Madam Johnson is now running the Governments strategy on reducing Carbon emmisions, this Petrol shortage situation has given an ideal opportunity to "test the water".  I couldn't get E5 locally yesterday, only E10. May not have been a supply problem, but just sold out quickly, perhaps?  Must be more Cars on the road that can take E10 than can't, so why no E5 Super?