RX400H Check VSC System / Check HYBRID System / E10 Fuel / Very Wet Road

[Tagmaster]

Oh hello there, my first time into limp mode yesterday. An OBDII Reader is coming tomorrow (I had no luck with Techstream / Windows 10) 

I know the reasons for these error codes are many and varied, but what does the team think of this occurring for the first time directly after its first fill-up with (Sainsbury's) E10 - I believeed a 2007 RX400h should have no problems with it. 

The road was very wet, like an inch of water. The AWD warning is on too. The 12V  Battery is fine and freshly trickle charged. 

Am I living in cloud cuckoo land (as usual) to think finding and clearing the codes will make it work again? Let me know what you think.

 

Thanks!

[Spacewagon52]

I am just about to fill-up with E10 - let you know!

[Tagmaster]

36 minutes ago, Spacewagon52 said:

I am just about to fill-up with E10 - let you know!

Ha! it should be fine, although I've read the slightly lower price is offset by slightly lower MPG. I definitely saw it was 100% compatible. Just coincidence in my case I am sure. I am hoping an important bit just got too damp and no permanent damage is done. 

[Spacewagon52]

Just now, Tagmaster said:

Ha! it should be fine, although I've read the slightly lower price is offset by slightly lower MPG. I definitely saw it was 100% compatible. Just coincidence in my case I am sure. I am hoping an important bit just got too damp and no permanent damage is done. 

Have you tried disconnecting the Battery for 10 minutes? Might do a reset?

[Herbie]

1 hour ago, Tagmaster said:

An OBDII Reader is coming tomorrow (I had no luck with Techstream / Windows 10) 

You really should persevere with it, it does work. In my experience, the problems usually lie with the cable driver rather than Techstream. If you have persistent trouble with Win 10, try Oracle's VirtualBox and set up Win 7 or even XP in there.

Generic code readers are mostly OK but I'm not sure you'll get sub-codes like you do in Techstream and that could save a whole lot of hassle.

Just a random illustration - the code P0AA6 on it's own may cover 10 different things, whereas P0AA6-123 will point you in one direction, whilst P0AA6-456 will point to a different cause and so on. The sub-codes allow you greater accuracy.

[Tagmaster]

8 minutes ago, Herbie said:

You really should persevere with it, it does work. In my experience, the problems usually lie with the cable driver rather than Techstream. If you have persistent trouble with Win 10, try Oracle's VirtualBox and set up Win 7 or even XP in there.

Generic code readers are mostly OK but I'm not sure you'll get sub-codes like you do in Techstream and that could save a whole lot of hassle.

Just a random illustration - the code P0AA6 on it's own may cover 10 different things, whereas P0AA6-123 will point you in one direction, whilst P0AA6-456 will point to a different cause and so on. The sub-codes allow you greater accuracy.

Thanks and makes sense. The obd device might well give me confidence to try again if it works. 

[Tagmaster]

33 minutes ago, Spacewagon52 said:

Have you tried disconnecting the battery for 10 minutes? Might do a reset?

I will give it a go. 

[steve2006]

Not sure if this applies to the RX400h but other models displaying the VSC fault amongst others has been due to a faulty fuel cap gasket. The reason I mention this is because coincidently you had just filled the car with fuel.

You also mention the 12V Battery is fine but has it been tested on load?

[Tagmaster]

23 hours ago, steve2006 said:

Not sure if this applies to the RX400h but other models displaying the VSC fault amongst others has been due to a faulty fuel cap gasket. The reason I mention this is because coincidently you had just filled the car with fuel.

You also mention the 12V battery is fine but has it been tested on load?

Ha thanks, interesting one. I can only hope it's such a simple fix! I did plug the cheeky OBD Device in ( - https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B06ZYXB168/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 - still struggling to get a driver even for XP in VM for the MINI-VCI I have, so no techstream yet) and - ahem - wait for it: 

P0A78 Drive Motor 'A' Inverter Performance

...which doesn't look too good does it? 

I did put the reg number into https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/ and found an outstanding recall found - I believe there was one around the inverter, but imagine Lexus has long since washed its hands of 2007 models. 

Is the hand held device likely to be that off? 

 

Any recommendations welcome. 

 

 

[Herbie]

14 minutes ago, Tagmaster said:

P0A78 Drive Motor 'A' Inverter Performance

Oh dear

By the way, I've just sent you some info by PM that may help you figure things out.

This is what I meant about the sub-codes:

[Tagmaster]

Thanks, by some sort of miracle i DID get techstream working. Now trying to find the right report / subcodes. Will update accordingly. 

[Tagmaster]

Hello Team LexusOC. not a great deal of point in showing you these code readouts, it makes me feel like I am trying though!

I can't get any subcodes with Techstream yes (it crashes when I try, it also seems to quickly flatten the car Battery, could be coincidence though, it's on charge now anyway) 

Next steps:

I don't have the skills to even remove the rear seat, let alone start fiddling with high voltage parts. I spoke to the garage in st albans I've been using for servicing and they said 'we don't do hybrids.' Another one down the road advised me to 'limp' it to them, so they could read the codes. I tried, but it doesn't move when put into reverse, so is staying where it is for the moment. Being advised that 'it's drivable in limp mode' when it obviously isn't has not filled me with confidence. 

I found JAPEX and they're up the road, but have read mixed things about them only using Lexus-supplied parts. I can only find this US Inverter price, which is twice what the car cost me: https://parts.rallyelexus.com/p/Lexus__RX-400h/Drive-Motor-Inverter/63450154/G92A048080.html

Here's the question: Will a proper code read reveal a subcode that says 'oh, it's just a loose wire mate' 

The AA will get it to either JAPEX or the local garage, I'll need to sort out getting it back, shoud it be bad news. 

I feel it would be a bit daft to give up and put it on the market for salvage at THIS stage.

Here's the other question: Has anyone used JAPEX recently / any other Hertfordshire recommendations? Any mobile Hybrid mechanics? 

THANKS!

 

[Herbie]

1 hour ago, Tagmaster said:

Here's the question: Will a proper code read reveal a subcode that says 'oh, it's just a loose wire mate' 

Yes, it could very well just be a loose/dirty connection or broken wire.

For instance, if you look at P0A78-284 in the workshop manual, there's a column that gives the possible trouble area in order of likelihood, the highest possibility being first in the list:

If you then go to the end column and click where it says 'Click Here' you get a whole raft of possible causes with Good/No Good flowcharts and other stuff

This is why you really need these subcodes in order to make any meaningful diagnosis.

[Tagmaster]

39 minutes ago, Herbie said:

Yes, it could very well just be a loose/dirty connection or broken wire.

For instance, if you look at P0A78-284 in the workshop manual, there's a column that gives the possible trouble area in order of likelihood, the highest possibility being first in the list:

If you then go to the end column and click where it says 'Click Here' you get a whole raft of possible causes with Good/No Good flowcharts and other stuff

This is why you really need these subcodes in order to make any meaningful diagnosis.

Absolutely makes sense AND gives me hope! Thanks for that. I'll try again with Techstream and get it to a garage in the week if that's a fail. 

 

[MrChemist]

I stuck a full tank of E10 in mine last month and it seemed fine, though it was mostly round town.

I put a tankful of 97 octane E5 in this time and it also seemed fine. Currently 32mpg, a mix of motorway and round town (Sheffield, lots of hills).

[Tagmaster]

She's booked into JAPEX for diagnosis, not until the 4th October unfortunately as they're busy, diagnosing. Let's see what they come up with. 

[steve2006]

Cheers for the update, please keep us informed 😀

[Tagmaster]

Well here's an update for you.

I spoke to JAPEX who were lovely and helpful, booked it in and off it went there, last week, courtesy of the AA.

Here's where it gets interesting. Ross at JAPEX called me and - you guessed it - he'd diagnosed the inverter failing. However, he said, it's subject to a recall. I told him how I knew this and had spoken to Lexus Hatfield and they said they would only replace the inverter if there were no fault codes. Ross found this bizarre, bordering on the ridiculous and advised I call JEMCA on the Edgeware Road, as they're more reasonable. Lexus Hattfield are - apparently - well known for being *awkward*.

The AA took it to JEMCA yesterday (£90 charge this time) and Ash from JEMCA called me just now to say:

Yes it's the inverter. Yes Lexus will replace it at zero cost. However, Lexus doesn't have any in stock and will have to make one specially. Estimated time of arrival December 6th! 

Consequently my RX400H is going to be sat at JEMCA for at least two months (assuming our supply chain issues are going to carry on, it coud be longer of  course) 

It's back to St Albans Van Hire's Vauxhall Corsa, in fact I'll probably pick up a cheap one in the interim. 

I find it amazing Lexus is prepared to fix a 14 year old car with 135K on it at zero cost. Impressed. Lexus has definitely gone up in my estimation even higher than it was already. Lexus Hatfield not so much. 

Thanks.

 

[steve2006]

That’s some good news, OK you are going to have to wait but just look at the price for a new replacement!

I did some research a long while ago regarding inverter failure, it would appear a lot of the problems are caused by the lead free solder. Thankfully I still have a stock of military grade solder!

 

[Tagmaster]

Wow that is incredible. You'd think Lexus woud put two and two together and make me an offer to go away!

[Tagmaster]

MUCH TO MY SURPRISE, Lovely Lexus / Edgeware Rd called me up a few weeks ago to tell me the part had arrived from Japan earlier than expected and they'd done it.

The inverter part price was put down as £4,571. 

I had the failed Oxygen Sensor replaced too and there's a notable difference in fuel use and hybrid Battery use now, resulting in back to 30MPG for the 700 miles I've done since she returned (a local non-Lexus / non-hybrid garage had advised me not to bother replacing it). 

It's still amazing to me that Lexus replaced the inverter at £0 to me, thanks to the recall. 

SUMMARY: I owe Ross / JAPEX (in Hemel) a big favour, as without him pointing out that it was indeed slightly BATTY of Lexus Hatfield to state emphatically it would only replace the recall part if the car was showing no fault codes and advising me to call Lexus / JEMCA / Edgeware Rd, who immidiately booked it in.

Remember my RX400H was then also sat in Ross's garage for over a week awaiting the AA to pick it up (again) for my appointment. I was convinced I was never going to see it again!

Thanks for your advice here, I nearly gave up post-the Lexus Hatfield call. Glad I didn't. I'll pop in to JEMCA with a few bottles of something whenever I get a minute and certainly be back there for services and shiz. 

THANKS!

Haha - one more thing - it was rattling a lot from underneath the other day - I had a look and this part came off in my hand: Mysterious Part / Google Photos - Is it important? 

 

THANKS AGAIN.


 

[Herbie]

1 hour ago, Tagmaster said:

Haha - one more thing - it was rattling a lot from underneath the other day - I had a look and this part came off in my hand: Mysterious Part / Google Photos - Is it important? 

I'd hazard a guess that that is the exhaust heat shield so yes, worth putting back on if you can.

I'm very glad that everything worked out for you in the end, well worth the wait.

[Barry14UK]

It's quite common for the holes through which the aluminium heat shield is bolted to corrode due to interaction with steel securers.  It is often possible to resecure these by interposing  large washers.  A few more years on it may be necessary to let in pieces of aluminium if further corrosion requires. 

[PCM]

14 hours ago, Tagmaster said:

SUMMARY: I owe Ross / JAPEX (in Hemel) a big favour, as without him pointing out that it was indeed slightly BATTY of Lexus Hatfield to state emphatically it would only replace the recall part if the car was showing no fault codes and advising me to call Lexus / JEMCA / Edgeware Rd, who immidiately booked it in.
 

 

A great result!

Japex have always been great for me to.

 

[Trefor]

Great result! It must be nice to have the car back too. My car looks like the twin of yours, same age but LB registration (Twickenham Lexus I think). Only 105,000 miles on it so far, hopefully your failure is a rare occurrence (or that most other owners have had their inverter replaced already by Lexus FOC).