Rotating tyres and TPMS

[Sled Driver]

Hi folks

Thinking of rotating tyres on my CT200h (Oct 2016 model). The front two are around 5mm tread. The two rear are around 6mm. Had the car now just over two years. I believe the Yokohama tyres were brand new from Lexus Birmingham when I got the car.

This is the first car I have had with TPMS. Is it still possible to rotate as normal, without the need for doing anything "technical" regarding the TMPS? I have no electronic wizardry gadgets so was curious! I have the normal tools with the addition of axle stands and trolley jacks.

Many thanks LOC!

 

[dublet]

The TPMS sensors are in the valves. I do believe they're unique per corner. If you want to avoid separating the tyres from the rims, you can reprogramme the TPMS with a phone app and a ODB2 dongle:

 

 

[NemesisUK]

Your handbook should tell you the procedure to adopt when rotating the tyres/wheels

Mine says to only change wheel positions with the power switch off and then to re-initialise the system, after checking the pressures are correct.

[Chris111]

The handbook for my car advises tyre rotation should be done every 6k which means, to me, that the sensors are not unique to the corner of the car. The only thing to do is if you rotate front to back, if the pressures front and rear are different, is set each tyre to the correct pressure and re-initialise the system. The owners manual will tell you how.

[stormchaser]

You don,t have to worry about this as it only senses the tyre pressure and not whereabouts on the car that the wheel is.If you rotated them it wouldn,t affect them at all so no resetting needed.

[Sled Driver]

Cheers guys for the guidance. I'll have a look at my manual. When I get chance probably weekend I'll swap tyres. As there is only an amber warning light for the TPMS, rather than a display for pressure of the individual tyre. I did think maybe it would be to swap as normal. Just wasn't sure. 👍🏽

[LenT]

You’ve not mentioned whether the Yokos are asymmetric or directional- which could be a more significant consideration.  This article by Bridgestone spells it out.

I don’t think that the fact it’s dated April 1st this year is significant!
 

https://www.bridgestonetire.com/learn/maintenance/tire-rotation/#

[Sled Driver]

4 hours ago, LenT said:

You’ve not mentioned whether the Yokos are asymmetric or directional- which could be a more significant consideration.  This article by Bridgestone spells it out.

I don’t think that the fact it’s dated April 1st this year is significant!
 

https://www.bridgestonetire.com/learn/maintenance/tire-rotation/#

The Yokohama e70 db tyres are assymetrical I believe. 

[LenT]

46 minutes ago, Sled Driver said:

The Yokohama e70 db tyres are assymetrical I believe. 

An asymmetrical tyre has different sized tread blocks across the width of the tyre.  The larger blocks are on the outside, the smaller blocks on the inside.  So the wheels can be rotated diagonally.

A directional tyre is designed to operate most efficiently when it rotates in one direction.  This direction is marked by an arrow on the sidewall.  So such tyres can only be rotated on the same side, back and front.  I hope this helps.

[LenT]

1 hour ago, Sled Driver said:

The Yokohama e70 db tyres are assymetrical I believe. 

With respect, Kish, they look symmetrical to me.  But I see that they were a factory fit by Lexus on this model, so you’re probably safe rotating as per the manual.

Apologies if I raised an unnecessary complication!

[dublet]

I could only find a mention of symmetry/direction on this page: https://www.tireshot.com/all-tire-brands.php?brand=Yokohama

It suggests the E70 series is:

Quote

Tread: Symmetrical   Directional?: No

It's good advice though to double check the sidewall for any directional arrows before you go and swap.

[LenT]

18 minutes ago, LenT said:

With respect, Kish, they look symmetrical to me.  But I see that they were a factory fit by Lexus on this model, so you’re probably safe rotating as per the manual.

Apologies if I raised an unnecessary complication!

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Tyre/Goodyear/Eagle-F1-Asymmetric-5.htm/view_media/Goodyear-Eagle-F1-Asymmetric-5.jpg
 

As a comparison Kish, this link should be a close up of the Goodyears that I have fitted to mine.  They are asymmetrical and you can see that the tread blocks differ on the outside and inside of the tyre.

[dublet]

And if you look very closely , you will notice another subtle hint, in that Goodyear put "Asymmetric" in the name. 🙃

[Las Palmas]

Have had cars for more than 50 years and never rotated tyres.

If 1 or 2 are close to where you find it correct to replace, it is hard to believe that the rest could be in so good condition that they should be kept on. They have all been abused the same way.

[LenT]

11 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

Have had cars for more than 50 years and never rotated tyres.

If 1 or 2 are close to where you find it correct to replace, it is hard to believe that the rest could be in so good condition that they should be kept on. They have all been abused the same way.

As it happens, neither have I.  Mind you, that doesn’t mean that perhaps I should have done so!

However, I’ve always been fortunate enough, maybe, to buy new when needed.

[Sled Driver]

Many thanks guys. On reflection looking again the tyres are probably more symmetrical.

I was half asleep earlier when responded, as come off a long night shift as an Undertaker.

Might just leave the tyres now as the service and MOT are due in October. Have a service plan with Lexus Birmingham so may ask them if then can rotate tyres during that. If it's worthwhile to help with even wear???

[NemesisUK]

Wheels are not routinely removed at service so it may be a chargeable exercise.

Is it worthwhile? Some suggest not as it may accelerate wear as new angles are exposed to the road and anyway if it does even out wear you end up having to buy 4 new tyres in one go?  

[stepheneric]

There are always deals out there of saving 10% to 15% if you buy 4 tyres

[Sled Driver]

21 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

Wheels are not routinely removed at service so it may be a chargeable exercise.

Is it worthwhile? Some suggest not as it may accelerate wear as new angles are exposed to the road and anyway if it does even out wear you end up having to buy 4 new tyres in one go?  

 

15 minutes ago, stepheneric said:

There are always deals out there of saving 10% to 15% if you buy 4 tyres

Thanks for the above guys. Increases one's knowledge further. Once I had this thought of rotating the tyres, part of my brain did think it would probably be unnecessary. That I was making a job for myself that wasn't really required! As my annual mileage is below average anyway, will probably hold fire on this one!

[dublet]

Don't forget tyres should be replaced not just due to wear/mileage but probably after a certain time as well. Michelin and others recommend replacing after 10 years regardless of wear, but thorough inspection after 5 years for any signs of old age.

[Las Palmas]

1 hour ago, dublet said:

Don't forget tyres should be replaced not just due to wear/mileage but probably after a certain time as well. Michelin and others recommend replacing after 10 years regardless of wear, but thorough inspection after 5 years for any signs of old age.

So does among other companies VW with their timing belts, but the funny thing is that there is no mentioning of when the belt was produced on neither the rubber band nor the packaging so this is a strange thing to take care of as nobody will be able to know how long the belt has been laying in stock.

Helmets for mountain and moto bikes should also be replaced after a more or less specified time, but some companies say that it only is due to exposure of UV light the helmets will no longer be as good as new.

Could be the same with regard to tyres.

When rubber starts to show cracking lines, I would certainly not want to continue using them.

 

[LenT]

4 hours ago, Sled Driver said:

 

Thanks for the above guys. Increases one's knowledge further. Once I had this thought of rotating the tyres, part of my brain did think it would probably be unnecessary. That I was making a job for myself that wasn't really required! As my annual mileage is below average anyway, will probably hold fire on this one!

At 5mm and 6mm the tyres are well within their efficient operating range.  I replace mine at 3mm, a depth most tyre makers recommend.

In terms of age they should be fine too.  But they should be inspected at a proper dealer service in any case, for any tread or sidewall damage.

On balance there’s probably no cause for concern - or even rotation.  As has been mentioned, some folk maintain that it only means all four have to be replaced at the same time.

As it happens, I don’t rotate but I do replace all four, but I’ve never experienced dramatic tread depth differences.

 Still. I would never criticise anyone for being cautious about their tyres!

[dublet]

1 hour ago, Las Palmas said:

So does among other companies VW with their timing belts, but the funny thing is that there is no mentioning of when the belt was produced on neither the rubber band nor the packaging so this is a strange thing to take care of as nobody will be able to know how long the belt has been laying in stock.

Helmets for mountain and moto bikes should also be replaced after a more or less specified time, but some companies say that it only is due to exposure of UV light the helmets will no longer be as good as new.

Could be the same with regard to tyres.

Yes, this is one of the things that the AA article linked points out, amongst others. UV degrades rubber and plastic too. If you happen to park in a particularly sunny spot, it could degrade one, or more, of the tyres.

[NemesisUK]

Use of tyre gel can reduce and delay the damaging effect of the sun's UV

[LenT]

On 8/24/2021 at 5:50 PM, Sled Driver said:

Hi folks

Thinking of rotating tyres on my CT200h (Oct 2016 model). The front two are around 5mm tread. The two rear are around 6mm. 

 

Thinking back over this thread, Kish, I felt there may be one point that I for one may have missed.  It's not been mentioned, so forgive me if you've already considered it.  Namely, while you've been worried about tread depth, arguably a more important point is tread wear ACROSS the tyre.

Uneven wear across the tread can be indicative of several problems.  If it's greater on one side than the other, that can be indicative of a tracking problem. You might find the car has been pulling to one side, for example.

If it's different in the centre then that can suggest over or under inflation.  And of course each wheel could have a different problem.

Just something to look for during an inspection!  🙂