E10 Fuel

[Subtronics]

Anyone on here concerned about using the new fuel in their IS300h? 

[Linas.P]

No, because 2AR-FSE can run on E10 or any ethanol, there are only few exception for few older Lexus engines like 4GR-FSE in IS250 before 2007. Apparently, the issue is not the engine, but fuel lines and fuel pump components which can corrode over time. 

Even then - I have used fuels with various ethanol levels (including E85) on mine and never had any issues. The only thing I noticed is that cars uses ~5-10% more fuel on E85. That is simply because ethanol has lower power density so engine needs more of it to reach same power. At the same time it burns little bit cleaner and could even reduce accumulation of carbo deposits in DI engines.

[Shada]

No

[Mincey]

Me neither.

[NemesisUK]

No but then I only ever use V-Power 😁

[royoftherovers]

No reason why anyone should be if Lexus say it is ok.

[Subtronics]

Apart from them making more money if fuel system parts break! But that is a very cynical view lol

[royoftherovers]

2 minutes ago, Subtronics said:

Apart from them making more money if fuel system parts break! But that is a very cynical view lol

Time to take another leap of faith my friend.

In truth there are perhaps thousands of motorists who do not welcome its introduction.

[Subtronics]

From what I have heard it makes the cars fuel burn a lot leaner and with less power, not too fussed as I usually use premium, but recently I have switched to normal because I'm trying to save some cash. Be interesting to see if this does cause problems for older cars.

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, Subtronics said:

From what I have heard it makes the cars fuel burn a lot leaner and with less power, not too fussed as I usually use premium, but recently I have switched to normal because I'm trying to save some cash. Be interesting to see if this does cause problems for older cars.

It does not make to burn leaner (kind of opposite), but it has less power per volume, meaning you will be making less power. On turbo charged cars, this effect could be eliminated by increasing pressure - basically squeezing more fuel and more air into cylinder to effectively increase compression ratio and get same power. Now as I said E85 increases fuel consumption by ~5% that is the fuel with 85% pure ethanol, as such I would not expect to see any meaningful difference on E10 .. something like 0.5% or in worst case less than 1% difference is not something to worry about. 

I am much more worried about it costing more money, whereas it should actually be substantially cheaper. I am under no illusion that goverment would allow this to happen... so they will introduce inferior fuel but will keep same astronomical duties and taxes, yet continue to demonise motorists despite making billions out of us.   

[Shada]

3 hours ago, Linas.P said:

It does not make to burn leaner (kind of opposite), but it has less power per volume, meaning you will be making less power. On turbo charged cars, this effect could be eliminated by increasing pressure - basically squeezing more fuel and more air into cylinder to effectively increase compression ratio and get same power. Now as I said E85 increases fuel consumption by ~5% that is the fuel with 85% pure ethanol, as such I would not expect to see any meaningful difference on E10 .. something like 0.5% or in worst case less than 1% difference is not something to worry about. 

I am much more worried about it costing more money, whereas it should actually be substantially cheaper. I am under no illusion that goverment would allow this to happen... so they will introduce inferior fuel but will keep same astronomical duties and taxes, yet continue to demonise motorists despite making billions out of us.   

Sounds about right. 

[ColinBarber]

3 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Now as I said E85 increases fuel consumption by ~5% that is the fuel with 85% pure ethanol, as such I would not expect to see any meaningful difference on E10 .. something like 0.5% or in worst case less than 1% difference is not something to worry about. 

Ethanol has about 30% less energy for the same volume as compared to normal unleaded fuel, and fuel economy is directly related. E10 therefore has 3% less energy than unleaded. The fact that we are already using E5 means there will only be a 1.5% change moving to E10, which for most will be unnoticeable but will be there all the same.

[Linas.P]

3 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

Ethanol has about 30% less energy for the same volume as compared to normal unleaded fuel, and fuel economy is directly related. E10 therefore has 3% less energy than unleaded. The fact that we are already using E5 means there will only be a 1.5% change moving to E10, which for most will be unnoticeable but will be there all the same.

I think it is combination of reduced power and increased fuel consumption. When I was using E85 fuel consumption was certainly not 25% higher, probably 10% worse at most. But then I suspect may car was not making the power it could. 

[paulrnx]

I understand that Bio-ethanol is 33% less efficient than pure fuel in terms of burning the fuel and creating power. I’ve just read a report that states that E10 fuel will reduce engine performance by about 1% when compared to E5 fuel. Based on this I’d expect a similar difference between e5 fuel and fuel with no bio-ethanol. I seem to recall plenty of reports when we moved to e5 fuel warning about reduced engine efficiency. Of course, no-one is going to notice a 1% drop in engine performance. Other European countries have been using e10 fuel for years so we’re only catching up with the rest of Europe. I reckoned that the ~1% difference was effectively a third of 5%.

On a related note, I’ve just done two tankful a of Shell V-Power and seen much better economy. By 2mpg over both tankfulls. More testing required on my part but I may continue to use it. V-Power will continue to be e5.

[Subtronics]

Thanks for the info everyone. I think I'll stick to my current plan of mixing tanks. I get through two to three a month, so will do one a month of premium. 🙂