Satnav or Old School Maps?

[Las Palmas]

23 minutes ago, PDM said:

Hi John,

The current vehicles come with 3 years free map updates, issued every 6 months.

I was pretty upset when Blackberry 10 went end of life and I had to switch to an android based phone... ho hum.

Paul

3 years map update is not bad. Compare it to lifetime with a Garmin it is not really that good.

[LenT]

53 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

3 years map update is not bad. Compare it to lifetime with a Garmin it is not really that good.

Not to mention four times a year - on my Garmin anyway.

Although admittedly they could be updates to roads and places I have no intention of going to.  But then that applies to most parts of the Planet anyway!

[Barry14UK]

I didn't get on well with the Lexus satnav - it took me off course several times on roads I know well to prove the point. Also it's very clunky. I therefore transferred the large TomTom from my BMW which had worked well and mounted it on the dash of the RX after finding optimum position and making brackets.  It's far easier to see and read at a glance and more easy to set than the Lexus one.  Updates are regular and it has a number of other features including speed camera warnings.  I can even detach it and carry it with me to assist finding my way about a strange town whilst on foot, something you can't do with the Satnav installed by manufacturers.   It also has the advantage of my being familiar with its operation, so I can readily transfer it to another car, albeit with a different fixing. See pic in my post of Oct 30 2020 under thread below.

I do agree that there are occasions  when it is helpful to see a position relative to a much wider area so also carry a large book of maps.

It all comes down to what you prefer/find works best for you. 

[First_Lexus]

 

[Malc]

now when one's driving  " off piste "  when doing the NC500 ............... just poodling around areas with just about zero signal and maybe roads that are often impassable with sheep etc ..........  methinks my satnav might be my " nose " for directional stuff 

Oh for the joys of a car without all this hi tech sat nav stuff .....  bit like living without TPMS .....  how on earth could you  ..........  oh, and headlamps where you can't change a dead lightbulb and it's a £1000 a time for a new headlight ................  just where have we arrived in our car upgrades eh ! or should I say downgrades tbh

The simplicity of an old Ls400 isn't a bad way forward ........... tape cassette and all 

Malc

[Mincey]

20 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

Not to me James. I am all ears and eyes!

Your comment John reminded me of this tale. Are you sitting comfortably? Good. Then I'll begin. Many moons ago, I was doing a spot of IT contracting for Boots at their Head Office in Nottingham. Back in those days, the site occupied by Boots was the size of a small town. I don't know how many office buildings there were then, but quite often I was invited to meetings at the other end of the site and my colleagues and I could either take a 15 minute walk or wait for a shuttle bus. I think that since then much of the site has been turned into housing, but these things happen. I appear to have digressed slightly already. 

On my daily commute from Peterborough to Nottingham, via Stamford, Oakham and Melton Mowbray (but later I found that staying on the A1 and heading across via the A52 was quicker), I would often be stuck for something to listen to. Quite often the contents of the six CD autochanger would not inspire me so I would have to see what was on the radio. Being of an age, Radio 1's output just sounded like noise to me. It certainly wasn't what it was in my day, and I'm sure that many of you are nodding sagely now. I did try Classic FM and Radio 3 but sadly, despite having been a member of the school orchestra, classical music just didn't do it for me, and I wasn't ready - quite - for John Humphrys or Captain Peacock or whoever was doing the Breakfast Show on Radio 4. So Radio 2 it was.

In those days, before Terry Wogan came on to delight housewives (and possibly some chaps too) up and down the nation, Sarah Kennedy hosted the Dawn Patrol. I must admit that I quite enjoyed her show before she went into a downward spiral of referring to guests as "prunes" and making ill-judged racist comments. One slot on her show which I did not particularly enjoy though was the regular Thought For The Day. 

Mostly, in Thought For The Day, Ms Kennedy was joined by a fairly innocuous member of the clergy who would give their thoughts on life, the Universe and everything. Sometimes it was Rabbi Lionel Blair (or am I getting confused with Mark and Lard?), who could be thought provoking on occasions. The times I dreaded though, was when the Reverend Roger Royle was invited along for a chat.

I think it was his laugh and inane banter with the ex-Game For A Laugh host which annoyed me the most. I could even endure Radio 1 while he was on. It was that bad. 

It is time to wind the clock forward a few years, and to when I was in business with the Golfing Type I mentioned earlier. We were scheduled to attend an industry conference in Leicestershire - I can't recall where, but this is not vital to the tale. This is by the way, the same event which I took him to, and upon returning decided he needed a Lexus. So in the eyes and coffers of Lexus Leicester, this was a good thing.

Following the conference, there was to be a dinner. Not a bad end to a day spent pressing the flesh and schmoosing I thought. However, news soon reached me of who the after-dinner speaker was going to be. Can anyone guess who it was yet?

Well done anyone who suspected that it might be the Reverend Roger Royle. I was in a bad mood for weeks in advance of the conference. What had at first seemed to be a highly enjoyable event had now had the kybosh well and truly, and firmly, put on it.

After the conference had ended, my colleague and I ended up in the bar, and guess who was standing right next to me? Yes, the Reverend himself. I generally make a point of not acknowledging celebrities. For instance I was staying at a hotel in Maidstone some years ago and when I looked up from my breakfast, I saw that Helen Lederer was sitting opposite me. She has the most fantastic eyes you know. I just gave her that "I know who you are, but I'm not going to make a fuss about it" look and got back to my sausage. 

I did wonder about berating the Reverend about his presenting style while I had the chance, but thought better of it. He soon left anyway, because dinner was imminent. I took my seat in the dining room with my colleague and waited for the starter to arrive.

At the conclusion of what was, in my opinion, a rather fine meal, the main event came. I was not looking forward to it one bit, I can tell you all. Some chappie stood up and made us be silent for the evening's speaker. Silence rapidly ensued. For the next 45 minutes, I was totally rapt and hanging on every word which came out of the Reverend's mouth. To say that he was the most entertaining speaker I have ever witnessed would be very fair. 

It just goes to show that books should not be judged by their cover, or clergymen by their appearances on radio. 

[royoftherovers]

6 minutes ago, Mincey said:

Your comment John reminded me of this tale. Are you sitting comfortably? Good. Then I'll begin. Many moons ago, I was doing a spot of IT contracting for Boots at their Head Office in Nottingham. Back in those days, the site occupied by Boots was the size of a small town. I don't know how many office buildings there were then, but quite often I was invited to meetings at the other end of the site and my colleagues and I could either take a 15 minute walk or wait for a shuttle bus. I think that since then much of the site has been turned into housing, but these things happen. I appear to have digressed slightly already. 

On my daily commute from Peterborough to Nottingham, via Stamford, Oakham and Melton Mowbray (but later I found that staying on the A1 and heading across via the A52 was quicker), I would often be stuck for something to listen to. Quite often the contents of the six CD autochanger would not inspire me so I would have to see what was on the radio. Being of an age, Radio 1's output just sounded like noise to me. It certainly wasn't what it was in my day, and I'm sure that many of you are nodding sagely now. I did try Classic FM and Radio 3 but sadly, despite having been a member of the school orchestra, classical music just didn't do it for me, and I wasn't ready - quite - for John Humphrys or Captain Peacock or whoever was doing the Breakfast Show on Radio 4. So Radio 2 it was.

In those days, before Terry Wogan came on to delight housewives (and possibly some chaps too) up and down the nation, Sarah Kennedy hosted the Dawn Patrol. I must admit that I quite enjoyed her show before she went into a downward spiral of referring to guests as "prunes" and making ill-judged racist comments. One slot on her show which I did not particularly enjoy though was the regular Thought For The Day. 

Mostly, in Thought For The Day, Ms Kennedy was joined by a fairly innocuous member of the clergy who would give their thoughts on life, the Universe and everything. Sometimes it was Rabbi Lionel Blair (or am I getting confused with Mark and Lard?), who could be thought provoking on occasions. The times I dreaded though, was when the Reverend Roger Royle was invited along for a chat.

I think it was his laugh and inane banter with the ex-Game For A Laugh host which annoyed me the most. I could even endure Radio 1 while he was on. It was that bad. 

It is time to wind the clock forward a few years, and to when I was in business with the Golfing Type I mentioned earlier. We were scheduled to attend an industry conference in Leicestershire - I can't recall where, but this is not vital to the tale. This is by the way, the same event which I took him to, and upon returning decided he needed a Lexus. So in the eyes and coffers of Lexus Leicester, all was not lost.

Following the conference, there was to be a dinner. Not a bad end to a day spent pressing the flesh and schmoosing I thought. However, news soon reached me of who the after-dinner speaker was going to be. Can anyone guess who it was yet?

Well done anyone who suspected that it might be the Reverend Roger Royle. I was in a bad mood for weeks in advance of the conference. What had at first seemed to be a highly enjoyable event had now had the kybosh well and truly, and firmly, put on it.

After the conference had ended, my colleague and I ended up in the bar, and guess who was standing right next to me? Yes, the Reverend himself. I generally make a point of not acknowledging celebrities. For instance I was staying at a hotel in Maidstone some years ago and when I looked up from my breakfast, I saw that Helen Lederer was sitting opposite me. She has the most fantastic eyes you know. I just gave her that "I know who you are, but I'm not going to make a fuss about it" look and got back to my sausage. 

I did wonder about berating the Reverend about his presenting style while I had the chance, but thought better of it. He soon left anyway, because dinner was imminent. I took my seat in the dining room with my colleague and waited for the starter to arrive.

At the conclusion of what was, in my opinion, a rather fine meal, the main event came. I was not looking forward to it one bit, I can tell you all. Some chappie stood up and made us be silent for the evening's speaker. Silence rapidly ensued. For the next 45 minutes, I was totally rapt and hanging on every word which came out of the Reverend's mouth. To say that he was the most entertaining speaker I have ever witnessed would be very fair. 

It just goes to show that books should not be judged by their cover, or by their appearances on radio. 

Thank you James. Indeed one should be cautious when forming a view!

I didn`t warm to Brian Cox at first!

I had to look up Helen Lederer and still have never heard of her.

Do let me know if your programme of after-dinner speaking takes off and I will attend any local events.🤣

[LenT]

And compliments to you, James, for having the character to change a long held  perception.  It's often not an easy thing to do.

BTW:  I hope you haven't slipped in some kind of euphemism here.

1 hour ago, Mincey said:

I saw that Helen Lederer was sitting opposite me. She has the most fantastic eyes you know. I just gave her that "I know who you are, but I'm not going to make a fuss about it" look and got back to my sausage. 

 

[LenT]

On 8/7/2021 at 8:39 AM, royoftherovers said:

What is wrong with your Lexus system Len ?

Probably nothing John.  I expect it’s working as well today as it was in Feb 2015.  But that is the problem.  And even then, the Garmin sat nav I had was easier to use, had free updates and was more accurate.

I’ve no experience of the very latest versions of the Lexus system, but it would be very disappointing if they hadn’t noticed all the technology that was leaving them behind.

And then there’s accuracy.  As an experiment I asked the Lexus and my Garmin to give me routes to a location I’ve been going to lately.

So the Lexus offered me three, but two were in fact the same.  The Shortest route was 14 miles / 26 minutes.  The Quickest was 16 miles / 35 minutes (!! ).  Yes, 35 minutes!

The Garmin reckoned it was 13 miles / 22 minutes, which was precisely what it did take and was the route I’d already been using.

If the Lexus can be that wayward on a local journey I know well, I would hesitate to depend on it for a longer journey into the unknown.

[royoftherovers]

22 minutes ago, LenT said:

Probably nothing John.  I expect it’s working as well today as it was in Feb 2015.  But that is the problem.  And even then, the Garmin sat nav I had was easier to use, had free updates and was more accurate.

I’ve no experience of the very latest versions of the Lexus system, but it would be very disappointing if they hadn’t noticed all the technology that was leaving them behind.

And then there’s accuracy.  As an experiment I asked the Lexus and my Garmin to give me routes to a location I’ve been going to lately.

So the Lexus offered me three, but two were in fact the same.  The Shortest route was 14 miles / 26 minutes.  The Quickest was 16 miles / 35 minutes (!! ).  Yes, 35 minutes!

The Garmin reckoned it was 13 miles / 22 minutes, which was precisely what it did take and was the route I’d already been using.

If the Lexus can be that wayward on a local journey I know well, I would hesitate to depend on it for a longer journey into the unknown.

Same for me Len. My 2010 system is fine for me. Paris is still where Paris was, so no real problem.

I am not aware of other more modern systems and facilities, but do I car? No.

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, LenT said:

Probably nothing John.  I expect it’s working as well today as it was in Feb 2015.  But that is the problem.  And even then, the Garmin sat nav I had was easier to use, had free updates and was more accurate.

I’ve no experience of the very latest versions of the Lexus system, but it would be very disappointing if they hadn’t noticed all the technology that was leaving them behind.

And then there’s accuracy.  As an experiment I asked the Lexus and my Garmin to give me routes to a location I’ve been going to lately.

So the Lexus offered me three, but two were in fact the same.  The Shortest route was 14 miles / 26 minutes.  The Quickest was 16 miles / 35 minutes (!! ).  Yes, 35 minutes!

The Garmin reckoned it was 13 miles / 22 minutes, which was precisely what it did take and was the route I’d already been using.

If the Lexus can be that wayward on a local journey I know well, I would hesitate to depend on it for a longer journey into the unknown.

New Lexus systems simply allows AA/CP and that is all it ever needed. Sadly, it took Lexus like 3-4 extra years after entire car industry was already there and Lexus was still tinkering with there strange to use and obsolete sat-nav.

So the only problem which remains on new Lexus sat-nav is rather tricky to use mouse-pad, but to be fair it is possible to get used to it. If I have any remaining issues - there are two:

1. Is that Lexus digital dash really takes no advantage of being digital i.e. having screen leaves limitless possibilities to show whatever you like on it and customise it to insanity. Lexus does not do either and has only very limited and basic information available there. Seems like solution here would be to make space for custom widgets and leave code open source (staring Lexus app store of sorts), but in no dream that ever going to happen.

2. Lexus at the moment does not allow AA/CP on HUD and it is a bit of shame really. It means that having HUD in car becomes pointless, because you have to use Lexus own rather horrible sat-nav. Well.. it can still show speed... so I guess that is borderline acceptable. 

In either case new Lexus systems with AA/CP are nearly as good as any other system in any other car, 8/10, but it is not because they are themselves good, but just because they allow AA/CP to do their job.

[Linas.P]

52 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

Same for me Len. My 2010 system is fine for me. Paris is still where Paris was, so no real problem.

I am not aware of other more modern systems and facilities, but do I car? No.

But do you realistically need sat-nav to actually show you the way to Paris? I would argue that it is possible to do it just by looking at signs, because such major cities are always well sign-posted. So utility in sat-nav isn't to show you the way anymore, it is there mostly to show you the areas to avoid, or to show how long exactly it is going to take considering current traffic conditions. 

I am sure Lexus sat-nav is good enough to show where Paris is, but it fails at only important utility of showing whenever somebody decided to have a crash on the way... and what alternative quickest route would be. 

[royoftherovers]

Paris was only an example. I could have said Muckle Flugger !

It took me to Fallingbostal near to Hannover without a hitch Linas and that was all I needed.

It gave my estimated travel time and indicated fuelling stops.

I cared not whether I was travelling on the shortest route or the fastest route. It did ask occasionally if I wanted to change the route because of an incident or something.

As a Pensioner with time on my hands it bothers me not if I don`t have the latest this or the latest that. It is sufficient for my needs and sits comfortably within the best car I have ever had. And that includes my 18 year old Mercedes Estate !

[Malc]

and if there's a sheep hold-up blocking a side route on the NC500 going over terrain with zero signal ......  what use then I'm wondering ................... ah, it's ok, there's a 1930's road sign to guide you to the nearest inn for a quickie dram to soothe the nerves 

Gentlemen, all this talk of HUDs whatever is too teccy for almost 100% of the readers on this Forum and you're talking a foreign language methinks ........... sat nav does have it's uses, even maybe in Muckle Flugger ( did you actually spell it right ? ) but a simple phone with signal and the right route satnav with a pleasant lady to tell you what's going on is all you really need ...  even to get to Paris from Alnwick I guess

Built in screens and complex teccy satnavs needing expensive, or even inexpensive updating just probably isn't a necessity these days ........... the screens can be better used to forewarn you of the impending disaster arising from the TPMS mis-readings maybe

Malc

 

[royoftherovers]

6 minutes ago, Malc said:

and if there's a sheep hold-up blocking a side route on the NC500 going over terrain with zero signal ......  what use then I'm wondering ................... ah, it's ok, there's a 1930's road sign to guide you to the nearest inn for a quickie dram to soothe the nerves 

Gentlemen, all this talk of HUDs whatever is too teccy for almost 100% of the readers on this Forum and you're talking a foreign language methinks ........... sat nav does have it's uses, even maybe in Muckle Flugger ( did you actually spell it right ? ) but a simple phone with signal and the right route satnav with a pleasant lady to tell you what's going on is all you really need ...  even to get to Paris from Alnwick I guess

Built in screens and complex teccy satnavs needing expensive, or even inexpensive updating just probably isn't a necessity these days ........... the screens can be better used to forewarn you of the impending disaster arising from the TPMS mis-readings maybe

Malc

 

Greetings oh wise and mighty Sage, Omnipotent Ruler  of all that is left of once mighty Kent.

No, I didn`t spell it right, but I did/do know that it is the most Northly Lighthouse in these wonderful islands of ours..

A reference that was intended to confuse the all thinking ,all knowing Wizard from Eastern Europe, whose knowledge and textual skills know no bounds. 

Sadly it appears that to confuse Linas one must first confuse ones self.🤣🤣🤣

[dutchie01]

 

Sorry John but you brought up the lighthouse!

[dutchie01]

https://carbuzz.com/news/lexus-interface-is-the-next-generation-of-infotainment

 

[Linas.P]

57 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

Paris was only an example. I could have said Muckle Flugger !

It took me to Fallingbostal near to Hannover without a hitch Linas and that was all I needed.

It gave my estimated travel time and indicated fuelling stops.

I cared not whether I was travelling on the shortest route or the fastest route. It did ask occasionally if I wanted to change the route because of an incident or something.

As a Pensioner with time on my hands it bothers me not if I don`t have the latest this or the latest that. It is sufficient for my needs and sits comfortably within the best car I have ever had. And that includes my 18 year old Mercedes Estate !

But I guess we can both agree that it may not be solution for everyone? Hence people don't redard Lexus built in sat nav as very good system and use other ways of navigation like dedicated sat-navs or phones to get to where they going quicker. 

[royoftherovers]

56 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

But I guess we can both agree that it may not be solution for everyone? Hence people don't redard Lexus built in sat nav as very good system and use other ways of navigation like dedicated sat-navs or phones to get to where they going quicker. 

Yes, old pal, I think we can both agree on that😊👍.

[paulrnx]

I’ve never felt it necessary to have the latest and greatest of anything. I don’t early adopt new tech and I don’t upgrade my tech as soon as updates are available, I wait to make sure any updates are reliable and eventually get round to it. I don’t really appreciate the need for apple Car Play and never will, built in satnav is just fine for my needs. Lexus nav can be a bit clunky but once you get used to it it’s not that bad. Of course it’s not the latest and greatest and for some that is no good at all. I never ever want my car to be updated over the air overnight whilst I sleep. A dinosaur I am but a happy one at that 😀

[dublet]

New to Lexus here and a neophile. I've been giving the built in sat nav on my 2016 RC a work out. It's fine. Not great, but usable. It's gotten me to where I needed to go, had traffic updates and whatnot. It's got a nice 3D view, which is what I prefer.

The maps are old at 2015 but just today ordered a map update, as it didn't have the Huntingdon bypass for instance, which messed up some routing suggestions. A few places, didn't quite recommend the correct lanes either, specifically coming from the M6 to join the M1, says to "go slightly right", when the lanes are on the left and then go overhead to curve right.

Not being able to input the full post codes is unfortunate. Also wish I could change the default destination input mode to be post code.

It's no Google maps, but in the end it got me where I needed to be in time, which is what matters.

I haven't had old school maps in my car for 10+ years. If the built in satnav can't cope, I'll use my mobile phone. Or perhaps even look out the window and pay attention to signs. But that being said I will look at an online map prior to my journeys to understand the rough route.

 

[Malc]

10 hours ago, paulrnx said:

I’ve never felt it necessary to have the latest and greatest of anything

but it is nice sometimes to know you maybe have the greatest even tho' others may disagree .......... 1995 Ls400 was, and still might be, one of the greatest cars ever produced in it's time ......  surpassing many cars produced even today ............ my nephew's almost new, under warranty superb Nissan Qashqai, slight gearbox whine .....  oh dear sir, that's a new auto box for sure ..........  under warranty but I expect several £'000's

there might even be the odd Lexus or two with similar up-to-date diagnoses methinks

and as for SatNavs, well, don't they update and upgrade and change with the wind ..  if you'll pardon the expression

Malc