Satnav or Old School Maps?

[rich1068]

I've just returned from a week in Cornwall (using Google Maps via Android Auto in a rented Ford Galaxy) and one thing that did strike me was the number of signs I saw asking drivers to please ignore satnav and follow signs for eg the A30 to get to wherever. Satnav does cause real problems in places such as Devon and Cornwall due to the narrowness and lack of visibility on the tiny country lanes. This seems to be extremely bad this year due to the sheer numbers holidaying there and the fact that approximately 50% of the vehicles we encountered were Volkswagen T5s 

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, Arnett said:

9/10 Your phone will vastly out perform your satnav. However satnav in a car with a HUD is a different story. Thats just beautifully smooth. 

 

Haven't used paper maps on years due to the ability of my devices telling me congestion and adaptive routing.

 

Some cars with Android Auto/Car Play now integrates HUD function as well. 

[Mincey]

3 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

Have you ever thought of Script Writing or perhaps After Dinner Story Telling ?😉😉

Have I told my Roger Royle anecdote yet?

[royoftherovers]

13 minutes ago, Mincey said:

Have I told my Roger Royle anecdote yet?

Not to me James. I am all ears and eyes!

[Herbie]

Just to throw in my two-pence worth, I think the Lexus nav is atrocious.

My car is just three years old but the navigation is so clunky and counterintuitive and slow, which is why I'm desperate to get my Android Auto device working properly. Until then, I'll have to use my phone but can anyone shed any light on the problem in the video?

I hate talking in videos so please excuse the stilted commentary.

EDIT: I don't usually perform SO badly with the joystick but trying to hold the phone steady and operate the joystick at the same time was obviously beyond me

 

 

[mikey2001]

Hi Herbie, have you tried entering 'Utt' rather than 'Ut', would that bring up Uttoxeter?

[Herbie]

33 minutes ago, mikey2001 said:

Hi Herbie, have you tried entering 'Utt' rather than 'Ut', would that bring up Uttoxeter?

DOH!!! 

Cheers Mike - although I still don't like the Lexus nav

[PDM]

Hi All,

I'm genuinely curious as to what people find so clunky on the Lexus sat nav?  I think we can break down the merits (or not) of the system into 2 categories:

1. How good is it at route planning/Time of arrival prediction etc?

2. How good is the user interface?  Can it let you perform the types of input etc that you want to do?

I suspect for 1, the answer is "not as good as Google/Garmin etc" but it seems a lot of people here simply don't like the user interface.  I go back to a comment I made previously on here - user interfaces are either familiar (because you have learned them) or not familiar (because you haven't).  Do people really find the UI so bad?  Is it really slow to respond?  I never thought that (yes - it takes a few seconds to calculate a route...).

Having used a Lexus satnav in it's several generations for a while now (and admittedly nothing else) perhaps I don't know what I am missing....??

I'm also less convinced than others about the merits of Android Auto.  I don't see that many more features that it provides over the built in vehicle systems with a phone paired on BT (if they are working properly) - apart from being able to use a different mapping application.  

One thing I was excited about when purchasing my new RX with Android Auto was going to be the ability to join conference calls (Teams/Zoom) - on audio only of course - whilst driving.  Alas, it can't do that.....  that would have been excellent.  Also, AA/ACP are not so integrated into the vehicle systems (heads up display navigation is one limitation).

So, what am I missing by sticking with the inbuilt system? (assuming I keep the maps up to date, which I do... twice per year on the new systems). 

Cheers,

Paul

P.S. I clearly have a different view of what I want from a phone to most people - I still use a Blackberry.... (an android one...) so perhaps I have a strange view of what I want from the inbuilt systems!

[royoftherovers]

1 hour ago, mikey2001 said:

Hi Herbie, have you tried entering 'Utt' rather than 'Ut', would that bring up Uttoxeter?

Our resident electrician just cannot spell !🤣🤣

[ColinBarber]

1 hour ago, Herbie said:

DOH!!! 

Cheers Mike - although I still don't like the Lexus nav

After you entered UT, you had 29 matches - if you clicked on 29 it would have listed all of matches for you to narrow down your search. It's a shame it doesn't do that automatically as you type on the same screen.

[royoftherovers]

3 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

Our resident electrician just cannot spell !🤣🤣

Herbs, seriously, did you know that GHOTI spells fish ?

Google it and see.

[Mr Vlad]

Ruddy ell John lol. That's why English is the Hardest language to learn. 

As for using a A to Z for routing, I had numerous amounts of large paper clips where I'd clip pages together so that when that certain road ended on one page I'd simply turn to the next page via the paper clip where the road continued. 

[ColinBarber]

55 minutes ago, PDM said:

Do people really find the UI so bad?  Is it really slow to respond?  I never thought that (yes - it takes a few seconds to calculate a route...).

Having used a Lexus satnav in it's several generations for a while now (and admittedly nothing else) perhaps I don't know what I am missing....??

I'm also less convinced than others about the merits of Android Auto.  I don't see that many more features that it provides over the built in vehicle systems with a phone paired on BT (if they are working properly) - apart from being able to use a different mapping application.  

One thing I was excited about when purchasing my new RX with Android Auto was going to be the ability to join conference calls (Teams/Zoom) - on audio only of course - whilst driving.  Alas, it can't do that.....  that would have been excellent.  Also, AA/ACP are not so integrated into the vehicle systems (heads up display navigation is one limitation).

I've never had a big problem with the interface but there are certainly better systems out there, and I find it is getting worse. The system in my wife's 2020 UX is certainly less intuitive than my 2016 GS and the trackpad is worse than the mouse for me. I don't find them slow, but certainly some of the older generation Lexus systems were.

AA/CP gives you choice; if you don't like the in-built system then you aren't stuck with it. Personally I find apple Maps or Waze better than the Lexus system, and I like the ability to set a route whilst in the house on my phone and just connect up rather than fiddling around entering an address on the Lexus system using the poor trackpad. The real-time updates on google/apple are more real-time than the Lexus system, plus with Waze you get alerts to cameras, broken down cars etc.

With CP I'm able to select my source of audio (e.g. Music, Audible, Spotify). Without CP all I can do is select Iphone my the source and then I have to touch the phone to switch between the apps. With Webex I'm able to launch the app in CP and ask Siri to join my next meeting.

Lack of integration with HUD is Lexus' fault - they added AA/CP functionality later than most, and BMW and VAG for example provide this functionality now.

[PDM]

24 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

I've never had a big problem with the interface but there are certainly better systems out there, and I find it is getting worse. The system in my wife's 2020 UX is certainly less intuitive than my 2016 GS and the trackpad is worse than the mouse for me. I don't find them slow, but certainly some of the older generation Lexus systems were.

AA/CP gives you choice; if you don't like the in-built system then you aren't stuck with it. Personally I find Apple Maps or Waze better than the Lexus system, and I like the ability to set a route whilst in the house on my phone and just connect up rather than fiddling around entering an address on the Lexus system using the poor trackpad. The real-time updates on google/apple are more real-time than the Lexus system, plus with Waze you get alerts to cameras, broken down cars etc.

With CP I'm able to select my source of audio (e.g. Music, Audible, Spotify). Without CP all I can do is select iPhone my the source and then I have to touch the phone to switch between the apps. With Webex I'm able to launch the app in CP and ask Siri to join my next meeting.

Lack of integration with HUD is Lexus' fault - they added AA/CP functionality later than most, and BMW and VAG for example provide this functionality now.

Thanks, Colin.  Particularly in your point that with car play you can join webex...

Paul

[Linas.P]

27 minutes ago, PDM said:

1. How good is it at route planning/Time of arrival prediction etc?

2. How good is the user interface?  Can it let you perform the types of input etc that you want to do?

1. it is terrible, sometimes not even in the same hour. This is because real traffic information on Lexus is very poor. Sure if road is going to be clear then it will calculate average speed and prediction is going to be reasonable, but if you use it in the city during peak hours it could be on another planet.... and worse even if it knows there is traffic, sometime it still send you right into the middle of it (I assume redirection is simply not aggressive enough). Route planning is not good for same reason - yes it can find theoretically best route, but because of outdated traffic information it might send you doing circles or right into stand still. So - in terms of actual route planning I would give it like 3/10. This is 2017 RC with pre-facelift narrow screen premium sat-nav, including traffic information. I know that face-lift sat-nav with wide screen works slightly better.  

On top of that - it is slow... for example if you miss the turn it just get's confused for 15 seconds and takes long time to suggest new route. 

2. Again - fairly terrible. Not impossible to use but takes like 4 times longer than using phone. I would simply consider whenever one can use it whilst driving or not. I consider that Lexus sat-nav one can't use whilst driving, so it is not acceptable. If I have ever used it whilst driving, then it would be whilst standing by the traffic lights. Maybe one can do it in the straight stretch of motorway, but it is just dangerous to use whilst driving. 

Voice commands are useless as well. Tried to use it once or twice and it is just hopeless. 

As I said - if you just want to go from say London to Edinburg and you want to get "general direction" instead of following the signs, then it is good enough. However, if you were driving somewhere and suddenly you decide some help from navigation would be good, then Lexus navigation would be last thing in my mind. You need to stop anyways, so you might as well just take phone from the pocket. With phone it takes at most 30s to find where you going, whereas same thing would take 2-3 minutes on Lexus sat-nav and even then you probably need to use phone 500m from destination, because it is simply not very accurate. 

 

[paulrnx]

19 hours ago, Linas.P said:

I think some people have sense of direction, some people don't - I don't believe using paper map somehow improves it. That said - knowing how to use maps is beneficial, even if you use digital maps after that it is still useful to know what the map is as many rules applies to nay map anyway.

I guess one of my issues with paper map is that it is not possible to use it whilst driving (or would not be safe anyway). Second reason is that - I don't actually use maps or sat-nav because i don't know where I am going.. sure if it is middle of nowhere and I have never been there before it is useful as well, but most of the time only need it to see traffic condition and to advise me on alternative routes. If it won't be there I would still reach my destination, maybe just not as quick. 

I have secondary satnav on my car. I open the map and tape it to the steering wheel. It’s a bit of a pain as the route goes over to another page mind! Even more so when the next page is 10 pages away in the map book 🤣🤣🤣

[ColinBarber]

3 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

it is terrible, sometimes not even in the same hour. This is because real traffic information on Lexus is very poor.

I agree it isn't great but the frequency of update is somewhat determined by the settings on the vehicle - you can set it to connect more frequently with the disadvantage of using more mobile data so the owner has the choice.

[paulrnx]

Joking aside, I manage ok with the Lexus satnav. It’s never let me down. As I’ve mentioned above, I don’t need to use it on a day to day basis visiting places I’ve never previously visited. Suspect I might have to review my first statement if I did need to do this. A mate’s brand new 530e is sublime from a graphics, media and satnav perspective but then it is a generation newer than most Lexus systems. I thought the satnav on a recent loan UX was pretty good to be honest.

[Linas.P]

10 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

I agree it isn't great but the frequency of update is somewhat determined by the settings on the vehicle - you can set it to connect more frequently with the disadvantage of using more mobile data so the owner has the choice.

I am getting traffic information without even connecting the phone somehow... I thought that is part of premium sat-nav?

Are you sure it is available on 7" sat-nav? Maybe that is a function on wide-screen sat-nav? Besides as I said - sometimes I can see on sat-nav that it shows road ahead as "red" meaning it is congested, but still advises to continue straight into that traffic. So it seems it doesn't even use information it has.

I find google maps redirection most reasonable, whereas waze sometimes is even too aggressive i.e. it sometimes suggest alternative route when the main one isn't even that bad, and send you to really obscure back roads and rat-runs.  

[royoftherovers]

7 hours ago, Linas.P said:

It is just very slow and usually outdated, on top of that touchpad is pretty terrible way of entering address compared to phone keyboard. In comparison there is no such thing as out of date map on the phone - if may changes it instantly gets updated for everyone. 

The only car where I believe sat-nav was somewhat useful was BMW with it's iDrive, the dial somehow was easier to use and system would pre-filter address in country you are at, meaning you only need to enter first letter and suddenly instead of whole alphabet you will get just 5 possible second letter and so on. Basically in 3 clicks you have your address in sat-nav and it was easy enough to use when driving, I would argue easier than tanking phone out of pocket (which one should not do when driving anyway). Obviously, even BMW has same issue with outdated maps in the beginning, but I believe ~2012 if you got their professional system, the maps would update automatically every few months. Still not as new as google maps, but good enough. 

So to summarise - Older Lexus systems just had poor screens with low sensitivity and outdated maps, newer systems have rather tricky to use mouse touchpad and still has outdated maps. not convenient to enter the address and nearly impossible to do it when driving. As well you need to know address precisely, there is no search like on google maps i.e. you can enter approximate name and let the map to suggest you close matches. On top of all that traffic information on google maps is just instant - if it says 3h to drive, it will be 3h... if it says there is closure or congestion, there will be. At most it could be outdated for like 15 minutes.

Finally, having sat-nav in car is rather obsolete nowadays - most modern cars comes with CarPlay or Android Auto, meaning your phone automatically connect to the car infotainment system and you have best of both words - intuitive user interface where you can quickly enter any address and latest maps. For example new MB system is good (arguably one of the best in the market), but nobody uses it, I certainly don't - just connect the phone and use Android Auto.  

Thanks Linas.My perspective is rather different.

[Herbie]

1 hour ago, royoftherovers said:

Herbs, seriously, did you know that GHOTI spells fish ?

Google it and see.

Well I'll go t'foot of our stairs as me Granny used to say.

I had no idea!

 

[Herbie]

1 hour ago, PDM said:

So, what am I missing by sticking with the inbuilt system?

Colin summed up Android Auto/Apple CarPlay quite well above but just to add to that:

Although my AA device isn't working well, one aspect of it that does is voice commands using the Google Assistant.

All I need to do is to say "Hey Google" and it's in listening mode.

"Open Waze" and it does.

"Navigate to number 4 Dunstal Field Cottenham" and it just simply sets up the route and then I have the choice of using or avoiding motorways and all the usual stuff. No dramas, no stress, it just does it and I can be off driving before I would have finished inputting the address into the Lexus system.

Unfortunately for me, the problem is that Waze then freezes within a couple of miles but I know that's down to the particular unit I have, along with other problems. If I can ever get it working properly it'll be excellent.

Google Assistant is worlds apart from the Lexus voice commands. Last time I tried Lexus I said, "Call Pete Fairclough" and it replied, "Dialling 493. If this is correct blah blah." What??? With GA, "Call Pete Fairclough" > "Calling Pete Fairclough" and again, no stress or drama.

AA/CP can also do Spotify, amazon Music and so on, but also Internet Radio with thousands and thousands of stations. As we've toured around Poland, Czechia and other places we've discovered various excellent stations and it's great to get them in the car here, although this does use mobile data of course.

[Las Palmas]

3 hours ago, PDM said:

1. How good is it at route planning/Time of arrival prediction etc?

2. How good is the user interface?  Can it let you perform the types of input etc that you want to do?

Having used a Lexus satnav in it's several generations for a while now (and admittedly nothing else) perhaps I don't know what I am missing....??

One thing I was excited about when purchasing my new RX with Android Auto was going to be the ability to join conference calls (Teams/Zoom) - on audio only of course - whilst driving.  Alas, it can't do that.....  that would have been excellent.  Also, AA/ACP are not so integrated into the vehicle systems (heads up display navigation is one limitation).

So, what am I missing by sticking with the inbuilt system? (assuming I keep the maps up to date, which I do... twice per year on the new systems).

P.S. I clearly have a different view of what I want from a phone to most people - I still use a Blackberry.... (an android one...) so perhaps I have a strange view of what I want from the inbuilt systems!

1. Do not plan when to arrive, only to arrive in my own time and comfortably.

2. Probably the interface in the 2021 is better than in our 2016. Was once being told to drive against a one way street by Lexus navigation (did not).

Updating Lexus is for people with little care about money; it is stupidly expensive and both Android and Garmin have free updates.

Blackberry is as good as the rest of the Android and IOS phones. Tapping you for as much info as you allow.

[PDM]

Hi Herbie,

Thanks.  Interesting how some people find the Lexus voice commands work well and some people have little luck.  I'm originally from Yorkshire and find they work well with my accent - perhaps it doesn't like the accent from across the Pennines!  🙂

Seriously, I would say voice commands for phone dialling work perfectly for me on more than 9 out of 10 dialling attempts.

There is also internet radio provided in the new vehicles as part of the Lexus wifi box (although the interface is quite primative and no where near as good as what you will get on a phone, but the service is there.  I think it is the most under-advertised feature).

I will have more of a play with AA.

Paul

[PDM]

35 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

1. Do not plan when to arrive, only to arrive in my own time and comfortably.

2. Probably the interface in the 2021 is better than in our 2016. Was once being told to drive against a one way street by Lexus navigation (did not).

Updating Lexus is for people with little care about money; it is stupidly expensive and both Android and Garmin have free updates.

Blackberry is as good as the rest of the Android and IOS phones. Tapping you for as much info as you allow.

Hi John,

The current vehicles come with 3 years free map updates, issued every 6 months.

I was pretty upset when Blackberry 10 went end of life and I had to switch to an android based phone... ho hum.

Paul