Negativity on this forum

[royoftherovers]

5 minutes ago, LenT said:

What I would always ask, Phillip, is that opinions are based not on any preconceived attitudes towards the participants involved, but on what evidence there is to support a claim. 🙂

I recall looking into this at the time and what struck me is that, at a period when Franco-American relations were deteriorating and Chirac was facing political and personal pressures of his own, he would have been unlikely to miss this opportunity to mock Bush.  But he seemingly did.

I might also point out that if you are disinclined 'to believe a single syllable that emanates from the august bodies of Blair and Campbell?' that the source appears to be Shirley Williams - who wasn't at the meeting - who claims this was what Blair told her.

So either Blair was lying when he said it - in which case it is false - or he was telling the truth.  In which case you have to concede that he doesn't always lie!  

 

At which point the Prosecution rests, my Lud.🤣

[dublet]

59 minutes ago, LenT said:

So either Blair was lying when he said it

Oh no, a politician not being entirely truthful? Luckily that doesn't happen these days any more, and we can trust whatever they put on the side of a bus.

[Phil xxkr]

4 hours ago, LenT said:

What I would always ask, Phillip, is that opinions are based not on any preconceived attitudes towards the participants involved, but on what evidence there is to support a claim. 🙂

I recall looking into this at the time and what struck me is that, at a period when Franco-American relations were deteriorating and Chirac was facing political and personal pressures of his own, he would have been unlikely to miss this opportunity to mock Bush.  But he seemingly did.

I might also point out that if you are disinclined 'to believe a single syllable that emanates from the august bodies of Blair and Campbell?' that the source appears to be Shirley Williams - who wasn't at the meeting - who claims this was what Blair told her.

So either Blair was lying when he said it - in which case it is false - or he was telling the truth.  In which case you have to concede that he doesn't always lie!  

 

Not so Len, There are really four truth values: true, false, indeterminate, and self-contradictory. The sentence “My coffee mug is green” is true. “It is now raining outside my office window” is false. “This sentence is true” is indeterminate. If it were true, it is logically consistent. If it were false, that is also logically consistent. So it is both true and false at the same time. “This sentence is false” is self-contradictory. It cannot be true, and it also cannot be false.

And any hearsay from Williams or another party is just that and hardly the foundation for a correct summation of the facts or truth? 😎

[royoftherovers]

8 minutes ago, Phil xxkr said:

Not so Len, There are really four truth values: true, false, indeterminate, and self-contradictory. The sentence “My coffee mug is green” is true. “It is now raining outside my office window” is false. “This sentence is true” is indeterminate. If it were true, it is logically consistent. If it were false, that is also logically consistent. So it is both true and false at the same time. “This sentence is false” is self-contradictory. It cannot be true, and it also cannot be false.

And any hearsay from Williams or another party is just that and hardly the foundation for a correct summation of the facts or truth? 😎

I`m sure I`ve just seen Schrodinger`s cat!

If it were nicked from an NX, then you haven`t.🤣🤣

[LenT]

2 hours ago, Phil xxkr said:

Not so Len, There are really four truth values: true, false, indeterminate, and self-contradictory. The sentence “My coffee mug is green” is true. “It is now raining outside my office window” is false. “This sentence is true” is indeterminate. If it were true, it is logically consistent. If it were false, that is also logically consistent. So it is both true and false at the same time. “This sentence is false” is self-contradictory. It cannot be true, and it also cannot be false.

Thank you for this Phillip, although I can't help thinking you may have oversimplified matters. 🙂

As to your pronouncements regarding your drinking vessel and current weather conditions, I am more than ready to accept their veracity, despite no evidence being presented to support them.

I also agree with your statement:

And any hearsay from Williams or another party is just that and hardly the foundation for a correct summation of the facts or truth? 😎

Precisely so.  And yet isn't it that very hearsay that, as far as has been determined, formed the basis on which the popular myth you quoted has been based?

Namely:

As George W Bush famously opined "the trouble with the French is the don't have a word for entrepreneur" 🤣

And thus it is, as you rightly say, based on hearsay that is ' hardly the foundation for a correct summation of the facts or truth? '

 

[dutchie01]

I think we are overlooking the fact that nor Blair, Bush or Chirac owned a Lexus.  Albert The Second, Price of Monaco does. So, What does this tell us?

[LenT]

13 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

I think we are overlooking the fact that nor Blair, Bush or Chirac owned a Lexus.  Albert The Second, Price of Monaco does. So, What does this tell us?

Owning a Lexus is a Royal Prerogative?

[dublet]

21 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

I think we are overlooking the fact that nor Blair, Bush or Chirac owned a Lexus.  Albert The Second, Price of Monaco does. So, What does this tell us?

Yet the Japanese Emperor drives (is driven in) a Toyota. Curious. 🤔

[Phil xxkr]

11 hours ago, dublet said:

Yet the Japanese Emperor drives (is driven in) a Toyota. Curious. 🤔

Yes, that's the truth of it, all these individuals have probably never filled up a car with their own money or paid tax, of any kind 🤑. 

[Rabbers]

3 hours ago, Phil xxkr said:

… these individuals have probably never filled up a car with their own money or paid tax, of any kind 🤑. 

Almost certainly not, the Prince of Monaco and his forebears especially. Makes me quite envious.🤢

[DanD]

22 hours ago, dutchie01 said:

I think we are overlooking the fact that nor Blair, Bush or Chirac owned a Lexus.  Albert The Second, Price of Monaco does. So, What does this tell us?

With regards to Chirac... Civil servants in France are only allowed to drive, or be driven in French cars. They must be seen to lead by example and promote French brands. If you are a civil servant and are entitled to a company car, it has to be a Renault, Citroen or Peugeot. Up to a few years ago, such cars had to be white too... which is why there used to be so many white cars in France!

[LenT]

1 hour ago, DanD said:

. Civil servants in France are only allowed to drive, or be driven in French cars.

They must regret they can no longer start their careers with a Deux Chevaux.

[Spacewagon52]

On 8/15/2021 at 4:00 PM, royoftherovers said:

I`m sure I`ve just seen Schrodinger`s cat!

 

Snap!

[paulrnx]

Lovely to take a nice relaxing stroll down Meander Street

[Barry14UK]

On 8/14/2021 at 11:39 AM, LenT said:

 

 

But one my current hobby horses are car reviews by (generally) self-appointed motoring experts.  But that’s possibly a meander too far from the original post.

 

Try the admittedly long reviews of Thomas of Autogefuhl

[Barry14UK]

On 8/14/2021 at 11:39 AM, LenT said:

 

But one my current hobby horses are car reviews by (generally) self-appointed motoring experts.  But that’s possibly a meander too far from the original post.

 

Try reviews by Thomas of Autogefuhl as here = https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCG0__4AhnoCWRH7TPO0PQyg

[LenT]

47 minutes ago, Barry14UK said:

Try the admittedly long reviews of Thomas of Autogefuhl

Thanks Barry.  I would of course.

If only I knew where to find…

29 minutes ago, Barry14UK said:

Try reviews by Thomas of Autogefuhl as here = https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCG0__4AhnoCWRH7TPO0PQyg

Oh, right.  👍

[Malc]

On 8/16/2021 at 7:16 AM, Phil xxkr said:

all these individuals have probably never filled up a car with their own money

wonder how often you'd fill up your Lexus driving the inordinate lengths you'd have to in Monaco 

" Yes Sir, One Royal owner from new ........  3 years old and 657 kms and just requiring a fill-up,  it's second tank of fuel " 

Malc

[Phil xxkr]

14 hours ago, DanD said:

With regards to Chirac... Civil servants in France are only allowed to drive, or be driven in French cars. They must be seen to lead by example and promote French brands. If you are a civil servant and are entitled to a company car, it has to be a Renault, Citroen or Peugeot. Up to a few years ago, such cars had to be white too... which is why there used to be so many white cars in France!

That's a great "I never knew that" 👍 and possible quiz question 🤔

[Thackeray]

15 hours ago, DanD said:

With regards to Chirac... Civil servants in France are only allowed to drive, or be driven in French cars. They must be seen to lead by example and promote French brands. If you are a civil servant and are entitled to a company car, it has to be a Renault, Citroen or Peugeot. Up to a few years ago, such cars had to be white too... which is why there used to be so many white cars in France!

It's certainly true that the French government mainly uses French cars. It also used to be the case that small ads in newspapers were grouped in four main sections: Peugeot, Citroën, Renault and Foreign.

But I remain to be convinced that white was obligatory. Here are some pictures in a newspaper review of Chirac's cars. Half way down the page is a shot of several cars in what looks like the Elysée Palace courtyard and not a white car in sight.

[doog442]

16 hours ago, DanD said:

With regards to Chirac... Civil servants in France are only allowed to drive, or be driven in French cars. They must be seen to lead by example and promote French brands. If you are a civil servant and are entitled to a company car, it has to be a Renault, Citroen or Peugeot. Up to a few years ago, such cars had to be white too... which is why there used to be so many white cars in France!

Taking the subject off on even more of a tangent, in Cuba civil servants and Indeed any Government state owned vehicle are legally obliged to stop and pick up pedestrians / folk on the roadside who need a lift in the same general direction. Naturally there's a reason in that few people can afford a car. This kind of filters down, even a couple of locals jumped on our minibus on an excursion, no questions asked and hopped off a few miles later.  

 

[royoftherovers]

Just now, doog442 said:

Taking the subject off on even more of a tangent, in Cuba civil servants and Indeed any Government state owned vehicle are legally obliged to stop and pick up pedestrians / folk on the roadside who need a lift in the same general direction. Naturally there's a reason in that few people can afford a car. This kind of filters down, even a couple of locals jumped on our minibus on an excursion, no questions asked and hopped off a few miles later.  

 

And 65 years ago here in UK, my dad and many others would give lifts free of charge to Hitch Hikers, Service People in Uniform and men carrying Trade Plates.

My, how customs change.

[Thackeray]

20 minutes ago, doog442 said:

in Cuba civil servants and Indeed any Government state owned vehicle are legally obliged to stop and pick up pedestrians / folk on the roadside

In rural America, there's no legal requirement to pick up people who are walking but often cars will stop anyway and offer a lift. They regard it as so bizarre for anyone to be walking that they stop to ask if there's something wrong.

[Rabbers]

5 hours ago, Malc said:

wonder how often you'd fill up your Lexus driving the inordinate lengths you'd have to in Monaco 

" Yes Sir, One Royal owner from new ........  3 years old and 657 kms and just requiring a fill-up,  it's second tank of fuel " 

Malc

To be fair, wear and tear on the royal cars, and fuel bills, would include the need to pop over to Nice or even Cannes for better supermarket deals than you get in Monte.  Not to mention drives in the other direction as the result of the family’s occasional hankering for a good pizza.

[Alan305]

Years ago a friend with a light aircraft flew us into Le Mans for the 24 hours. (Like you do!) During the chaotic departure, with every aircraft trying to leave at the same time, air traffic came on the radio to say. “All aircraft turn off your engines. Despite your flight plans filed there will be an orderly departure, all French registered aircraft are to leave first” I think us brits were last.