MRI

[Phil xxkr]

7 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

Dr Kildare has passed young Phil.😢

Get with the programme John 😱, have you not heard of pre-quels? 😂

[royoftherovers]

19 minutes ago, Phil xxkr said:

Get with the programme John 😱, have you not heard of pre-quels? 😂

Don`t be silly amigo...I`m not yet finished watching Amand and Mikela Dennis !🤷‍♂️

[Herbie]

Absolutely brilliant news Piers, welcome back my friend.

[Malc]

On 8/8/2021 at 11:23 AM, doog442 said:

and went straight back on the list without having to wait months for an NHS MRI. I understand now the waiting list for scans etc is longer than ever due to Covid.     

.............. having had all my cancer stuff and, touch wood, successful radiotherapy and surgery throughout this dreadful covid period, the several and various  MRI scans were without a doubt very very prompt, quick and available ....... as an NHS patient along with everyone else here with any form or fear of cancer ......... there was in my instance absolutely zero delay with the assorted MRI scans I had .........  NHS providing very well indeed for me at the Point of Need

And Piers ......  well done, maybe be like me and just happily wake up every morning thanking whomsoever for such a wonderful and marvellous day that's ahead 

No complaints about that at all ... grab the day eh ! 

Malc

[dublet]

On 8/5/2021 at 12:48 PM, Phil xxkr said:

As to insurance costing more am I correct in thing the French system has better outcomes and costs less than UK NI

You are not correct.

The NHS is one of the worlds best systems, not just in outcomes but also in terms of cost efficiency. Sadly, a lot of newer medical treatments are more expensive than ever, even if they lead to better outcomes. This coupled with the NHS as a health care provider also being tasked with providing social care due to the underfunding of the social care system, as well as an ever growing population, does indeed mean that it is underfunded, even if paradoxically it gets more money.

Really happy for you @PCM with the positive outcome. These fancy machines really do help. My mother is currently undergoing treatment for cancer too. It's the uncertainty that gets you.

[doog442]

1 hour ago, Malc said:

.............. having had all my cancer stuff and, touch wood, successful radiotherapy and surgery throughout this dreadful covid period, the several and various  MRI scans were without a doubt very very prompt, quick and available ....... as an NHS patient along with everyone else here with any form or fear of cancer ......... there was in my instance absolutely zero delay with the assorted MRI scans I had .........  NHS providing very well indeed for me at the Point of Need

 

Mine was back stuff Malc, trivial compared to your condition in the big scheme of things. Likewise I fully understand where the priorities should be and hope you are, or will be sorted.

Best wishes to both you and Piers.   

[Barry14UK]

Pleased for you results were good. 

How quickly you get a scan and any necessary treatment on the NHS can depend on post code and the reason for the scan.  Generally speaking, priority during the pandemic has been given to people with cancer.  I spoke with a consultant from a major London Hospital about this recently and was told that with cooperation from other London Hospitals, cancer diagnosis and treatment at their particular hospital had not been been much affected.  Having had my latest MRI and biopsy there recently, I am scheduled to have a second treatment of HIFU (High Intensity Focal Ultrasound) later this month. 

For some problems, a patient may be given an opinion on their MRI very soon but with cancer, the scan and the patient's histology is usually discussed by a Multi Disciplinary Team (MDT), and a particular case may just miss the next meeting, thereby increasing the delay before the  patient receives the result and possible treatment options.

[Phil xxkr]

3 hours ago, dublet said:

You are not correct.

The NHS is one of the worlds best systems, not just in outcomes but also in terms of cost efficiency. Sadly, a lot of newer medical treatments are more expensive than ever, even if they lead to better outcomes. This coupled with the NHS as a health care provider also being tasked with providing social care due to the underfunding of the social care system, as well as an ever growing population, does indeed mean that it is underfunded, even if paradoxically it gets more money.

Really happy for you @PCM with the positive outcome. These fancy machines really do help. My mother is currently undergoing treatment for cancer too. It's the uncertainty that gets you.

I have no idea how you interpret your chart but for healthy lives, 10, read healthy outcomes 🤔. I saw this chart (from the left-leaning Commonwealth Fund 2011) on the Insurance world. Com site it then goes on to analyse The Best Healthcare System in Europe ;

1. Healthcare System in France
2. Italian Healthcare System
3. San Marino
4. Andorra
5. Malta
6. Singapore Healthcare System
7. Spain Healthcare System
8. Oman
9. Austria
10. Japanese Healthcare System
11. Norway
12. Healthcare System in Portugal
13. Monaco
14. Greece
15. Iceland
16. Luxembourg
17. Netherlands
18. UK Healthcare System
19. Healthcare System in Ireland
20. Switzerland Healthcare System

At 18th I wouldn't consider amongst the best, would you? 

[royoftherovers]

Just now, Phil xxkr said:

I have no idea how you interpret your chart but for healthy lives, 10, read healthy outcomes 🤔. I saw this chart (from the left-leaning Commonwealth Fund 2011) on the Insurance world. Com site it then goes on to analyse The Best Healthcare System in Europe ;

1. Healthcare System in France
2. Italian Healthcare System
3. San Marino
4. Andorra
5. Malta
6. Singapore Healthcare System
7. Spain Healthcare System
8. Oman
9. Austria
10. Japanese Healthcare System
11. Norway
12. Healthcare System in Portugal
13. Monaco
14. Greece
15. Iceland
16. Luxembourg
17. Netherlands
18. UK Healthcare System
19. Healthcare System in Ireland
20. Switzerland Healthcare System

At 18th I wouldn't consider amongst the best, would you? 

The view of the Politician might be that it" is just South of the Upper Quartile?"

[dublet]

3 hours ago, Phil xxkr said:

I have no idea how you interpret your chart but for healthy lives, 10, read healthy outcomes 🤔. I saw this chart (from the left-leaning Commonwealth Fund 2011) on the Insurance world. Com site it then goes on to analyse The Best Healthcare System in Europe ; [..]

At 18th I wouldn't consider amongst the best, would you? 

Okay, but that chart is basically from the Commonwealth Fund data.  I'm a skeptical person so I prefer to go to the source data. With lovely interactive charts here: https://interactives.commonwealthfund.org/2017/july/mirror-mirror/ In Exhibit 2, you can drill into the reasons for the UK being 10 for "healthy lives". FWIW I do believe in particular there are some areas in cancer care where the UK lags behind some other countries.

And Exhibit 5:

That chart is lacking in some concrete numbers, but shows the UK has the best "performance" and low spending.

The ranking you quote is not based on the data from the Commonwealth Fund, and instead is a WHO ranking: https://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf This ranking is about overall effiency and gives a range for each country with an uncertainty interval. As different kind of treatments can have very different outcomes. If you actually look at the source, you will see a bit of a different picture, in that the top 25 is very close:

In pure numbers 18th place isn't the greatest but the margins in that particular table are so small that it seems worse. Then a nice little nugget in the report, which is from approx 2000, is that it is based on 1993-1997 data. Which is approximately *checks watch* 30 years ago, and notably before a massive investment in improving outcomes by the political party in charge at the time. That investment was highlighted as improving outcomes signifinatly in the Commonwealth Fund study.

There are many things that could be improved with the NHS but it's pretty darn good.

[paulrnx]

9 hours ago, Malc said:

.............. having had all my cancer stuff and, touch wood, successful radiotherapy and surgery throughout this dreadful covid period, the several and various  MRI scans were without a doubt very very prompt, quick and available ....... as an NHS patient along with everyone else here with any form or fear of cancer ......... there was in my instance absolutely zero delay with the assorted MRI scans I had .........  NHS providing very well indeed for me at the Point of Need

And Piers ......  well done, maybe be like me and just happily wake up every morning thanking whomsoever for such a wonderful and marvellous day that's ahead 

No complaints about that at all ... grab the day eh ! 

Malc

A great story and a great attitude 👍

[paulrnx]

8 hours ago, Barry14UK said:

Pleased for you results were good. 

How quickly you get a scan and any necessary treatment on the NHS can depend on post code and the reason for the scan.  Generally speaking, priority during the pandemic has been given to people with cancer.  I spoke with a consultant from a major London Hospital about this recently and was told that with cooperation from other London Hospitals, cancer diagnosis and treatment at their particular hospital had not been been much affected.  Having had my latest MRI and biopsy there recently, I am scheduled to have a second treatment of HIFU (High Intensity Focal Ultrasound) later this month. 

For some problems, a patient may be given an opinion on their MRI very soon but with cancer, the scan and the patient's histology is usually discussed by a Multi Disciplinary Team (MDT), and a particular case may just miss the next meeting, thereby increasing the delay before the  patient receives the result and possible treatment options.

Wish you all the best

[Barry14UK]

Thank you Paul.

It is difficult to compare the performance of the NHS with other countries as it works in a different way and is generally wider embracing, also providing a degree of social care. Another difference is that people sometimes come from abroad to have operations within the NHS and then leave the UK without paying.  This contrasted with the way a hospital I know in German worked.  They treat a lot of people from overseas there but consider all the potential costs plus a contingency and this has to be paid up front.  When treatment is completed the patient receives a rebate for anything charged that was not used/done.

Generally speaking, the NHS provides a good emergency service but with very long waits for some elective surgery and sometimes even for A&E.  Furthermore, how soon this can be done varies with postcode.  Also, many hospitals lack the cutting edge equipment and expertise available in some London and other large town hospitals.  At GP level, some have so many patients that there can be very long delays.  Getting a NHS dentist can be very difficult in some areas.  So, the NHS could be better but are folk prepared to pay for and train all the additional doctors and others this would require?

Please bear with me for taking the opportunity to mention that Prostate Cancer is the second largest cancer killer of men.  It is usually a slow developing disease but men do not always exhibit symptoms and by the time they do it can be too late for cure (referred to as remission), so it then means treatment to delay.  However, it is generally slow growing. The incidence increases with age and Afro Caribbean men or men with a father or brother diagnosed increases the risk.  It is a complex disease, too involved to go into here but is something of which many men are unaware and should know about, particularly if over 50.  Most men do this by having a Digital Rear Examination (DRE) by their GP and a blood test known as PSA. Many GP's will not do the test unless a man is over 50 or exhibiting symptoms and then only after explaining possible over treatment.  If a man's PSA is high for his age or the felt Prostate irregular or over enlarged, the man is usually referred to a Urologist, who may well want an MRI done, which is where we came in.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Phil xxkr]

5 hours ago, Barry14UK said:

Thank you Paul.

It is difficult to compare the performance of the NHS with other countries as it works in a different way and is generally wider embracing, also providing a degree of social care. Another difference is that people sometimes come from abroad to have operations within the NHS and then leave the UK without paying.  This contrasted with the way a hospital I know in German worked.  They treat a lot of people from overseas there but consider all the potential costs plus a contingency and this has to be paid up front.  When treatment is completed the patient receives a rebate for anything charged that was not used/done.

Generally speaking, the NHS provides a good emergency service but with very long waits for some elective surgery and sometimes even for A&E.  Furthermore, how soon this can be done varies with postcode.  Also, many hospitals lack the cutting edge equipment and expertise available in some London and other large town hospitals.  At GP level, some have so many patients that there can be very long delays.  Getting a NHS dentist can be very difficult in some areas.  So, the NHS could be better but are folk prepared to pay for and train all the additional doctors and others this would require?

Please bear with me for taking the opportunity to mention that Prostate Cancer is the second largest cancer killer of men.  It is usually a slow developing disease but men do not always exhibit symptoms and by the time they do it can be too late for cure (referred to as remission), so it then means treatment to delay.  However, it is generally slow growing. The incidence increases with age and Afro Caribbean men or men with a father or brother diagnosed increases the risk.  It is a complex disease, too involved to go into here but is something of which many men are unaware and should know about, particularly if over 50.  Most men do this by having a Digital Rear Examination (DRE) by their GP and a blood test known as PSA. Many GP's will not do the test unless a man is over 50 or exhibiting symptoms and then only after explaining possible over treatment.  If a man's PSA is high for his age or the felt Prostate irregular or over enlarged, the man is usually referred to a Urologist, who may well want an MRI done, which is where we came in.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good article Barry, the PSA test is notoriously inefficient, if anyone has the slightest concern ask/demand an MRI (3.0 Tesla) before a biopsy which is the preferred (cheaper) route. Go private if denied, these days its no longer wildly expensive 😎

[PCM]

All good advice.

I had a DRE x 2. ( Once was enough! )

And I agree. PSAs can be 'volatile'.

Gentlemen of a certain age should certainly 'be aware'.

( Bowel Cancer checks also. )

[Malc]

7 minutes ago, PCM said:

Gentlemen of a certain age should certainly 'be aware'.

hahahahahahaha ...  I can laugh about it all now ...  we're all getting old and knackered for one reason or another and thank heaven for the NHS and Drs and Nurses, Consultants, Surgeons and all ........ and all FREE at that essential Point of Need 

One could be forever wondering if it's my or your turn next to get that dreaded diagnosis of summat weird and often terrible about to bring one down ...... best not to worry about it till it happens methinks ..  just be very very aware that it can often be the tiniest, simplest thingamebob that starts the dreaded cancer process rolling

AND then make sure you're on top of it and get the Dr to check it all out .....  that's the initial essential start for it all to get caught early, treated and then on your way to another fulfilling worry free life eh !

Driving our Lexus to the ends of the earth and fulfilling those dreams if you haven't already done so coz you've been preoccupied with worry about health

I know life just isn't that simple and straightforward ...  BUT ....  one can dream maybe 

Good luck to all ..  me and you deserve it 

Malc

[Phil xxkr]

1 hour ago, Malc said:

hahahahahahaha ...  I can laugh about it all now ...  we're all getting old and knackered for one reason or another and thank heaven for the NHS and Drs and Nurses, Consultants, Surgeons and all ........ and all FREE at that essential Point of Need 

One could be forever wondering if it's my or your turn next to get that dreaded diagnosis of summat weird and often terrible about to bring one down ...... best not to worry about it till it happens methinks ..  just be very very aware that it can often be the tiniest, simplest thingamebob that starts the dreaded cancer process rolling

AND then make sure you're on top of it and get the Dr to check it all out .....  that's the initial essential start for it all to get caught early, treated and then on your way to another fulfilling worry free life eh !

Driving our Lexus to the ends of the earth and fulfilling those dreams if you haven't already done so coz you've been preoccupied with worry about health

I know life just isn't that simple and straightforward ...  BUT ....  one can dream maybe 

Good luck to all ..  me and you deserve it 

Malc

Fabulous article Malc, just one teeney-weeney point, having paid into the system for more than 55 years I don't consider it to be FREE.

Edited August 16, 2021 by ColinBarber

[Barry14UK]

Prostate Cancer (PCa) is indeed mostly discovered in older men as it becomes more frequent with passing years.  Unfortunately, for some men, they develop 'significant' tumours early on and a small number develop advanced PCa in their late forties.  This can mean they have passed the window of opportunity for radical treatment and remission, so have to rely on systemic treatment such as Hormone Therapy, Chemotherapy and other further down the line forms of treatment.  Incidentally, men are often very reluctant to go to their GP with urinary problems compared to women who are far more proactive overall.  In fact it is often the partners of men who push them to see their GP and do a lot of research on treatment options open to them, some of which are not mentioned to affected men at their local hospital because their particular hospital does not offer all types of treatment.

So my advice is,  "if in doubt, check it out", and then join a dedicated forum where there is a pool  of knowledge and experience  if you have been found to have 'significant' tumour(s).  This also applies to other types of cancer.  Also, don't be misled by people that make what are often spurious claims or indeed by somebody at the pub who anecdotally reports that the best thing to do is this or that.  Cancer is a very complex and individual disease comprising various types that advances in different ways and people can respond differently to any treatment. So ultimately, a person needs to undergo tests and be individually assessed and monitored and offered treatment choice for which they are suitable.  With PCa a man is often left to decide which option to go for as they all have pros and cons.  In recent years there have been considerable advances made in diagnosis and treatment, many through improved and new types of scans and refinements  of treatments together with some recently adopted or being trialled, but there is still a long way to go. 

I won't go further here because cancer forums are the place for that and I don't want to be a cancer bore but statistically some of you will be affected so please bear with me on the foregoing. 

[dublet]

1 in 2 people will get some kind of cancer at one stage in their life, so I don't think it can be emphasised enough, @Barry14UK. Early diagnosis and treatment is essential.

[Malc]

4 hours ago, Phil xxkr said:

I don't consider it to be FREE.

FREE at the POINT of NEED .........  oneself and one's partners and families who might not pay into the System also get this " FREE " treatment for life too .............  I'm happy to have paid my dues, and I'm happy you have paid all yours too  .....  they have saved my life which to my mind is invaluable ..........  to others my life is perhaps of immeasurable value ........  nice way of saying " valueless" 

Malc

[Chris111]

On 8/15/2021 at 9:30 AM, PCM said:

Well, It's a good result.

I got a clear scan and a 1 to 2, out of 5, of 'getting' cancer (again), 1 being the lowest and 5 the highest.

So, if you're interested, I'll have a another blood test in 4 months and 4 months after that.

It's a good result.

Thank you for ALL your supportive comments and practical advice.

My advice? For an MRI, a mild sedative does help, a mask does help, feet first does help, if an option.

 

Pleased to hear your positive result Piers

[PCM]

13 hours ago, Chris111 said:

Pleased to hear your positive result Piers

Thank you.

[PJD69]

 

[Bluesman]

Had an MRI and that LED me into a chest drain last week and I an going to have CT scan next week. And so the hunt goes on.

  

[rich1068]

Hope everything goes well Mike.