Selling hybrids due to cat-theft risk?

[LenT]

6 hours ago, Linas.P said:

How it works in most normal countries. You see somebody committing the crime in daylight, you come out to stop it, you get confronted by the guy with machete or baseball bat, at this point you can shoot him dead (this is completely legal, because he has a weapon) and the crime is over and those scums will never try it again in similar fashion. Maybe it is slightly more complex depending on the country, some require warning shots (but there are exceptions if somebody coming to you with machete.

I can’t help thinking, Linas, that the flaw in this argument is that it’s a particularly stupid criminal who brings a machete  to a gunfight.

Since they are as likely to kill with their machete as with a gun, but more likely to be killed by a gun, surely the end result will be a gunfight over a catalytic converter.  However, it is arguable that once an example has been made of a few thieves, the cost / benefit ratio might well swing in favour of the car owner.

Unfortunately what happens in other countries is largely irrelevant.  In the UK, it is an offence to discharge a weapon in the street anyway, let alone kill people.  

Ultimately it may be a justifiable homicide if you shoot an attacker in your home, say.  But unlikely to be so in defence of your catalytic converter in the street.

[Linas.P]

4 minutes ago, LenT said:

I can’t help thinking, Linas, that the flaw in this argument is that it’s a particularly stupid criminal who brings a machete  to a gunfight.

Since they are as likely to kill with their machete as with a gun, but more likely to be killed by a gun, surely the end result will be a gunfight over a catalytic converter.  However, it is arguable that once an example has been made of a few thieves, the cost / benefit ratio might well swing in favour of the car owner.

Unfortunately what happens in other countries is largely irrelevant.  In the UK, it is an offence to discharge a weapon in the street anyway, let alone kill people.  

Ultimately it may be a justifiable homicide if you shoot an attacker in your home, say.  But unlikely to be so in defence of your catalytic converter in the street.

Well that is exactly the point... and the reason why knife crime is so common in UK, but pretty much non-existent in countries where carrying gun for self-defence if legal (that is ... most countries). Same reason why petty crime (in a sense that crime proceedings are very low) like cat theft is so common here. By the time criminals need guns to do a crime the catalytic converter no longer interest them - risk vs. reward simply doesn't compute. And it works for all sorts of low level imbecile crimes which are so common in UK, entry-level to be a criminal simply becomes higher and most people then are either too smart to offend or have to find ways of making living in legal ways... or are shot dead trying. 

Sorry if I sound like amurican gun lobbyist (because I personally despise them), but gun control and allowing to use guns for self-defence reduces overall number of crimes if implemented correctly, which is how it works basically in any country where this is allowed (except US... and few other bad examples like South Africa).

It is indeed irrelevant in UK, because UK laws effectively forbids defending your belonging and only allows self-defence in circumstances where it is not longer relevant. Guns aside, there is no way for car owner to confront cat thieves, because everything is stacked against the owner. Even if owners dares to interrupt the thieves in the process and takes common tool... say shovel or fork and then if during the fight they would injure the criminal, they will be judged not for premediated bodily harm or murder. So the only option one has is to go fight 4 man gang and wielding baseball bats empty handed. This is just non-starter and criminals knows it.

As well, just to be clear, you can't just go and shoot cat thieves in any country (maybe in amurica), but you could definitely go and confront them. At that point they only have option to run or to get shot, because as soon as they take step towards you, especially if they have anything in their hands, the self-defence law comes into action allowing you to shoot them. So yes - you can't just kill them, but they must run or surrender. In this case everything is stacked against the criminal and the owner simply needs to wait for them to make mistake. That is how it should be... 

 

[paulrnx]

I’m not worried at the moment but to be honest I’d probably sell up if mine was cut out and taken. Of course by that time I’d have made a claim on my insurance so it will cost. So question is does this become common enough to convince me to sell up before that point in time. I saw petrol at 146.9 per litre today and this bothers me more 😀

[Herbie]

14 hours ago, paulrnx said:

Of course by that time I’d have made a claim on my insurance so it will cost.

Not wanting to cause an argument but if I remember correctly my insurance has both a voluntary and also a compulsory excess, the sum of which will add up to about £500, plus the increase in premiums ad infinitum.

Speaking completely hypothetically (because I've never researched it so I don't know if this would work or not) a very cursory look on the Bay of Fleas shows that I can get a cheapo Magnaflow 400 Zeller Ceramic core replacement for around £180.

So for me (at least hypothetically) that's what I'd do, or have a straight pipe welded in and bother about the legalities later.

Quote

I saw petrol at 146.9 per litre today and this bothers me more

Exactly! It seems to be rocketing skyward faster than Jeff Besos!

[Linas.P]

45 minutes ago, Herbie said:

Not wanting to cause an argument but if I remember correctly my insurance has both a voluntary and also a compulsory excess, the sum of which will add up to about £500, plus the increase in premiums ad infinitum.

Speaking completely hypothetically (because I've never researched it so I don't know if this would work or not) a very cursory look on the Bay of Fleas shows that I can get a cheapo Magnaflow 400 Zeller Ceramic core replacement for around £180.

So for me (at least hypothetically) that's what I'd do, or have a straight pipe welded in and bother about the legalities later.

Exactly! It seems to be rocketing skyward faster than Jeff Besos!

Yes, for most people excess for insurance will be higher than cost of replacing cat. Meaning there is no point in trying to claim it from insurance. What is as well important to know - don't tell about it to your insurance. Even if you don't claim your insurance prices will go up next year, because your insurance company will put you in higher risk profile for being honest. 

[paulrnx]

7 hours ago, Herbie said:

Not wanting to cause an argument but if I remember correctly my insurance has both a voluntary and also a compulsory excess, the sum of which will add up to about £500, plus the increase in premiums ad infinitum.

Speaking completely hypothetically (because I've never researched it so I don't know if this would work or not) a very cursory look on the Bay of Fleas shows that I can get a cheapo Magnaflow 400 Zeller Ceramic core replacement for around £180.

So for me (at least hypothetically) that's what I'd do, or have a straight pipe welded in and bother about the legalities later.

Exactly! It seems to be rocketing skyward faster than Jeff Besos!

Yeah, pretty sure I’d be looking at all options if it ever happens to me. Agreed.

[paulrnx]

7 hours ago, Herbie said:

Not wanting to cause an argument but if I remember correctly my insurance has both a voluntary and also a compulsory excess, the sum of which will add up to about £500, plus the increase in premiums ad infinitum.

Speaking completely hypothetically (because I've never researched it so I don't know if this would work or not) a very cursory look on the Bay of Fleas shows that I can get a cheapo Magnaflow 400 Zeller Ceramic core replacement for around £180.

So for me (at least hypothetically) that's what I'd do, or have a straight pipe welded in and bother about the legalities later.

Exactly! It seems to be rocketing skyward faster than Jeff Besos!

I still have to convert back to gallons. 146.9p per litre is homing in on £7 a gallon which is just bloody awful really when you think about it ☹️

[MadJam250]

Another cat nicked as referenced on the CT200h forum. 

Whilst away for a few days last week in Merseyside a suspicious lad seen hanging around my car, taking photos of it and making a call straight after. My guess he was a scout passing on details, but I moved mine, yet this level of anxiety is unfortunately preventing enjoyment of ownership now. Unless Smart Water application works (methinks not) it's only a question of time really (unless I move to the countryside and never drive the thing or leave it unattended). 

[MadJam250]

Not seeing many references to more cat thefts in the last week or two. Wonder if this is down to smart water applications deterring the thieves (cynically I don't feel this will deter anyone really) or just not being mentioned on here. 

[Steve_S]

Well if you google the subject there is a police report dated August this year which states that thefts peaked in March and have steadily declined since (about a 57% drop). They mention Smart Water but also they had a big crack down in April. Personally, 4 people I know had cats stolen in rapid succession in 2019 (two were neighbours on my street, in one case my neighbour caught them at it and was subject to violent threats). Since then I don't know of anyone but that is just my experience. 

[Phil xxkr]

On 8/26/2021 at 3:40 PM, Steve_S said:

Well if you google the subject there is a police report dated August this year which states that thefts peaked in March and have steadily declined since (about a 57% drop). They mention Smart Water but also they had a big crack down in April. Personally, 4 people I know had cats stolen in rapid succession in 2019 (two were neighbours on my street, in one case my neighbour caught them at it and was subject to violent threats). Since then I don't know of anyone but that is just my experience. 

Article in papers today Steve from your area with big success story. Car full of stolen cats, a trailer, a caravan all apprehended at the same site now I wonder which upstanding section of society we're on the site? Oddly enough not mentioned in the article. 🤔

[steve2006]

So the people responsible for the thefts have been caught red handed, the CPS will probably drop the case due to “lack of evidence” or if they do proceed by the time it goes to court the accused will be long gone or if they actually appear in court will get a small fine or similar punishment and continue to do the same.

Meanwhile the cats will never be reunited with the owners and would be of no use unless they are very handy with a MIG welder so will probably sold as scrap by the police.

End result is the same, car owner out of pocket.

[Phil xxkr]

1 hour ago, steve2006 said:

So the people responsible for the thefts have been caught red handed, the CPS will probably drop the case due to “lack of evidence” or if they do proceed by the time it goes to court the accused will be long gone or if they actually appear in court will get a small fine or similar punishment and continue to do the same.

Meanwhile the cats will never be reunited with the owners and would be of no use unless they are very handy with a MIG welder so will probably sold as scrap by the police.

End result is the same, car owner out of pocket.

I was having a nice morning, studiously avoided any news, and then I read your comment Steve 🤣

[ColinBarber]

7 hours ago, steve2006 said:

So the people responsible for the thefts have been caught red handed, the CPS will probably drop the case due to “lack of evidence”

This is the main reason for Smart Water marking, you can prove the item found in their possession has been stolen.

[MadJam250]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-58399026

Oh dear. 😊

[Davehedgehog31]

The thought has definitely crossed my mind. I'm not sure how valuable the cat from a 16 year old RX300 would be but it would be easily nabbed. 

It is a relatively rare occurrence but undoubtedly inconvenient when it happens. I'm conscious of where I leave any car overnight but not specifically to do with cat theft, if anything a smashed window from an opportunistic thief is a more realistic concern. I'd imagine to cut out a catalytic converter quickly you'd be making a fairly serious racket with an angle grinder so that must limit where these thefts take place. 

My mate had a very rough Mercedes ML, he sometimes parks his car at a quiet sports pavillion car park due to limited space at his house. It was nabbed when parked there, they could have made as much racket as they liked without arousing much suspicion. 

I wouldn't worry about it unduly and certainly wouldn't change car because of it. The more common risks of theft from, or theft of the vehicle persist regardless of brand. 

[Herbie]

10 minutes ago, Davehedgehog31 said:

I'd imagine to cut out a catalytic converter quickly you'd be making a fairly serious racket with an angle grinder so that must limit where these thefts take place. 

You'd think so wouldn't you, but no, they don't care.

The whole job, from pulling up in their car to driving away again is about 90 seconds to 2 minutes tops. Plus, the 'lookout guy' is usually armed with a machete or some other weapon, so they aren't the slightest bit worried.

[VFR]

Now I wonder if they change the law to make it a custodial offence if caught in possession of them without a bona fide reason & the same applied to dealers who have no paper chain of correct purchases etc.

[cruisermark]

this LS430 for sale has had its cats stolen - so even older cars are a target:

2001 Silver Lexus LS 430 4.3 4dr for sale for £1000 in Gateshead, Tyne And Wear (autotrader.co.uk)

[ccnnoo]

Greetings from the States- here in Seattle thefts have been a big problem. Had our ‘05 Prius nabbed, so now installing a CatStrap & CatEye device on our ‘15 Ct200h. A company in Ohio makes these (catstrap.net) Seems to be the best approach I’ve researched…