Are we likely to see an all electric IS300?

[serbarry]

3 minutes ago, Derant said:

Read my earlier post, I stated my son had no problem driving around Scotland in his electric car, Linas asked about home charging, my comment about filling a petrol car at home was in response to that, it’s irrelevant to my earlier post

If your son lived in a flat without private parking space and charging point, would he have bought an electric car? This is all the point of discussion here.

[dutchie01]

14 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

 

And that is my point - most of people in UK don't live in the house where they can recharge electric car and thus it makes ownership of BEV not viable option.  

 

 

difficult to uphold with some 800,000 cars on the road in the UK that need electricity.

[Linas.P]

11 minutes ago, Derant said:

I gave you an example of someone charging away from home on a long trip, yet you think it’s ridiculous, we have a different view

Charging away from home on long trip is one thing, maybe little bit inconvenient but doable... it is possible to plan the journey so that charging coincides with resting or sight-seen, but to do it every day before going to work, or before going home is completely different story.

We both know this comparison is ridiculous... home refuelling at home isn't relevant because it takes minutes and it does not impact your day planning or route. Home charging is big deal, because the charging itself take long time and may alter route and planning significantly. 

8 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

difficult to uphold with some 800,000 cars on the road in the UK that need electricity.

With over 300k private charging points + 42k public ones + however many people have access to at least standard socket and considering the fact same household may own multiple BEVs it seems like we have just about enough charging point for 800k cars...

The tiny problem is - we need just 40 times more for all of us.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, serbarry said:

If your son lived in a flat without private parking space and charging point, would he have bought an electric car? This is all the point of discussion here.

He doesn’t so how can I answer that, my point was he managed to charge his car on a long trip without a problem

[Linas.P]

3 minutes ago, Derant said:

He doesn’t so how can I answer that, my point was he managed to charge his car on a long trip without a problem

But that is clearly irrelevant... we all know that long trips in BEVs are manageable with some forward planning and accepting that charging will add extra hours to the trip. 4 extra hours once in few months is inconvenient, but not end of the world, but extra hour every day is a showstopper. 

Could you not see this? Seems obvious enough... 

[serbarry]

2 minutes ago, Derant said:

He doesn’t so how can I answer that, my point was he managed to charge his car on a long trip without a problem

Oh dear! Ok but when he thought about buying an electric car, did he think about where to charge it? In other words I tend to think that he bought it after installing a charging point in his house and without this possibility I really doubt that he would have bought it.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

But that is clearly irrelevant... we all know that long trips in BEVs are manageable with some forward planning and accepting that charging will add extra hours to the trip. 4 extra hours once in few months is inconvenient, but not end of the world, but extra hour every day is a showstopper. 

Could you not see this? Seems obvious enough... 

earlier in this thread you stated it was almost impossible for an ordinary BEV to visit Fort William, now you have flipped to say a long trip is perfectly acceptable, can you not see that?

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, serbarry said:

Oh dear! Ok but when he thought about buying an electric car, did he think about where to charge it? In other words I tend to think that he bought it after installing a charging point in his house and without this possibility I really doubt that he would have bought it.

Why oh dear, he has an electric car and gets on with it both at home and away from home, the charging point came after but was planned.

[Linas.P]

2 minutes ago, Derant said:

earlier in this thread you stated it was almost impossible for an ordinary BEV to visit Fort William, now you have flipped to say a long trip is perfectly acceptable, can you not see that?

As well I said "before chargers were installed in Fort William" and as you already quoted I said "almost"...

Yes sure it was possible to do it using slow chargers for 6 hours on each stop, which isn't practicable.

Same as it is not practical to refuel your petrol car from jerry can at home. 

So this is all the question of where you draw the line of absurdity... 

[Las Palmas]

33 minutes ago, Derant said:

He doesn’t so how can I answer that, my point was he managed to charge his car on a long trip without a problem

Having time to find charging stations and time to wait till Battery is charged would make the trip a lot longer than just driving into a gas station and fill it up and maybe have a cup of coffee instead of needing a hotel to wait till the car was charged.

On a trip through Europe it could be expensive.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

Having time to find charging stations and time to wait till battery is charged would make the trip a lot longer than just driving into a gas station and fill it up and maybe have a cup of coffee instead of needing a hotel to wait till the car was charged.

On a trip through Europe it could be expensive.

Oh dear

[Linas.P]

10 minutes ago, Derant said:

Oh dear

but what is not true about it? 

If you can get to Fast Charger the charge time depending on the car will be between 30-120min, depending on your car range you may need to stop every 100-250 miles. If it is slow charger, then you will need 6-12 hours to charge, meaning you will need to get some accommodation... unless you think sleeping in the car for 12 hours if worthy of the amazing BEV experience. 

Now I am sure nobody would take their BEVs for Eurotrip, unless there are fast chargers on the route, but again it is just level of absurdity you want to go to. By making absurd statement that charging electric car on trip is the same as refuelling petrol car, or stating that it is ok not to have charging point at home, because we don't have petrol stations at home either... you inviting equally absurd responses...

Fair I guess... 

[Las Palmas]

10 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

but what is not true about it? 

If you can get to Fast Charger the charge time depending on the car will be between 30-120min, depending on your car range you may need to stop every 100-250 miles. If it is slow charger, then you will need 6-12 hours to charge, meaning you will need to get some accommodation... unless you think sleeping in the car for 12 hours if worthy of the amazing BEV experience. 

Now I am sure nobody would take their BEVs for Eurotrip, unless there are fast chargers on the route, but again it is just level of absurdity you want to go to. By making absurd statement that charging electric car on trip is the same as refuelling petrol car, or stating that it is ok not to have charging point at home, because we don't have petrol stations at home either... you inviting equally absurd responses...

Fair I guess... 

Having family in southern Spain and living in Denmark we have been doing the tour more than 20 times. It would never have been possible in an electric car within the timeframe of a normal holyday.

Trust the politicians that tell you that in 2030 there will be charging places enough for all types of Battery powered cars. Why not? Politicians never lie.

[doog442]

1 hour ago, Las Palmas said:

Lucky guy.

Its normal here mate...not sure what its like in your neck of the woods. 

[ColinBarber]

7 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

Having family in southern Spain and living in Denmark we have been doing the tour more than 20 times. It would never have been possible in an electric car within the timeframe of a normal holyday.

Looks possible to me, with no stop needing to be longer than 35 minutes.

https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/trips#/?v=M3_2020_LongRange&o=Granada, Spain_Granada GR AN@37.1773363,-3.5985571&s=&d=Aalborg, Denmark_Aalborg DK@57.0488195,9.921747

 

[ganzoom]

1 hour ago, Derant said:

He doesn’t so how can I answer that, my point was he managed to charge his car on a long trip without a problem

I really wouldn't ’t waste your time on essentially the flat earth society. 

[doog442]

13 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

Looks possible to me, with no stop needing to be longer than 35 minutes.

https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/trips#/?v=M3_2020_LongRange&o=Granada, Spain_Granada GR AN@37.1773363,-3.5985571&s=&d=Aalborg, Denmark_Aalborg DK@57.0488195,9.921747

 

Notwithstanding the car will take you to exactly where its needs to charge with a myriad of alternatives. The EU probably puts the UK in the dark in relation to charging options.

Jesus I'm not even an EV convert but some of the dinosaurs on here are digging a quite dramatic hole for themselves. Suddenly we have experts in how the national grid will look in a decade (despite a massive heads up).... these same experts would clearly struggle to wire a plug.

[Linas.P]

16 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

Having family in southern Spain and living in Denmark we have been doing the tour more than 20 times. It would never have been possible in an electric car within the timeframe of a normal holyday.

Trust the politicians that tell you that in 2030 there will be charging places enough for all types of battery powered cars. Why not? Politicians never lie.

Well I guess the answer - if you often do trips in excess of ~300 miles then BEV is not for you, so this is kind of exceptional case as well. 

That is all not a problem assuming you can choose the car which suits your needs - ICE, BEV etc. But in 2030 when we all have to have BEV that will become a problem. 

10 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

Looks possible to me, with no stop needing to be longer than 35 minutes.

https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/trips#/?v=M3_2020_LongRange&o=Granada, Spain_Granada GR AN@37.1773363,-3.5985571&s=&d=Aalborg, Denmark_Aalborg DK@57.0488195,9.921747

Not everything what is possible makes sense - it was possible for me to have 4 people (some may argue even 5) in my RC, but would it make sense to do 2000 miles Eurotrip in such car with 4 people?! NO!

As well you looking at Tesla long range and using Tesla Supercharger, which is literally the best case scenario. 

Somewhat more realistic, but not even average BEV would be looking at Modef 3 Standard Range with 278miles (average BEV has ~200 miles range) :

https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/trips#/?v=M3_2020_StandardRangePlus&o=Granada, Spain_Granada GR AN@37.1773363,-3.5985571&s=&d=Aalborg, Denmark_Aalborg DK@57.0488195,9.921747

I don't know how about you, but 39 hours doesn't sound practical for me (not to mention in average BEV it would probably be closer to 48). And I am not even going to go into the topic of speed... with ICE you could do in excess of 90MPH for most of the trip ignoring whenever that is legal or not. But with BEV you will be stuck at 60... maybe 70 max.

Compare that to  average ICE:

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Granada,+Spain/Aalborg,+Denmark/@46.7762951,-5.7860525,5z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m18!4m17!1m5!1m1!1s0xd71fce62d32c27d:0x9258f79dd3600d72!2m2!1d-3.5985571!2d37.1773363!1m5!1m1!1s0x464933b25fdf3d0d:0x4eb1b46a2eec26c3!2m2!1d9.921747!2d57.0488195!2m3!6e0!7e2!8j1627425600!3e0

Not only it is already 10h shorter trip because no time is wasted on charging, but I would bet you I can do it in under 22-24h with 6 stops! Grand Touring you know!

[NemesisUK]

Just imagine driving across Europe in the 1920s ...

[Las Palmas]

5 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

 in 2030 when we all have to have BEV that will become a problem. 

And I am not even going to go into the topic of speed... with ICE you could do in excess of 90MPH for most of the trip ignoring whenever that is legal or not. But with BEV you will be stuck at 60... maybe 70 max.

MB350 SE made the trip in less than 24 hours (legal speed - maybe not - maybe - never got caught).

Nissan 300 ZX was faster. Ford Capri 3L was not slow either.

Now a CT is fast enough for us.

Will never have a BEV and do not trust the politicians and they will never succeed with only EV after 2030. Other things will come up they do not know about.

Next car could be a Mirai. Think there will be fuel stations enough before they get down in price to fit us after we no longer work. To make electricity to so many cars as on the roads today will be more than the politicians can manage get going.

[paulrnx]

1 hour ago, Derant said:

I gave you an example of someone charging away from home on a long trip, yet you think it’s ridiculous, we have a different view

This is interesting thanks. Could you give me a bit more information about this one please. What car / where charged and how. Genuinely interested.

[Las Palmas]

19 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

Just imagine driving across Europe in the 1920s ...

Went from Denmark through Sahara and on the way back up to Tronheim in a Beetle in maybe 1972.

Do not know how many charging points are in Sahara.

[NemesisUK]

24 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

But in 2030 when we all have to have BEV that will become a problem. 

But we don't all have to have BEV, just we won't be able to buy a new non-BEV. We can still buy and drive 5ltre supercharged petrol engined cars if we so wish..

[NemesisUK]

2 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

Went from Denmark through Sahara and on the way back up to Tronheim in a Beetle in maybe 1972.

Do not know how many charging points are in Sahara.

My point being in the early days of ICE, finding petrol stations might have been equally challenging.. It didn't stop what we all accept as normal now?

[Linas.P]

52 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

But we don't all have to have BEV, just we won't be able to buy a new non-BEV. We can still buy and drive 5ltre supercharged petrol engined cars if we so wish..

For some time... yes. But eventually it will not be practical. I would say in ~10-15 years from ban ICE will become ~sort of classics and collectables, not really something you could justify just driving around.

But maybe I am just worrying to much - I can own hydrogen car without much issues today, if they have at least 100 (although potentially it could be like 2000-3000) hydrogen station by 2030 it won't be an issue anymore. And BEVs will look funny by then with their dirty batteries... we will think for ourselves - "how could have we been so short-sighted and caused another diesel gate". 😄