Are we likely to see an all electric IS300?

[Mincey]

1 hour ago, Malc said:

there's a solution to this in the making right now

HamburgSud ( the Dr Oetker baking people actually ) sold it's entire fleet to Maersk a year or so back

Maersk has on order right now the first of probably many to come...  Hydrogen Fuel Cell powered container ships

Malc

But where are they going to refuel? (runs and looks for cover... 😉 )

[Linas.P]

2 hours ago, paulrnx said:

This subject just gets done to death every time. Whether we have enough electricity generating capacity is irrelevant. What we don’t have I believe is big enough local sub-stations to support lots of people in an area fed by a particular sub-station charging their EVs. It is not the work of a moment to replace or upgrade these local sub-stations and it is this restriction that will limit capacity. I don’t believe we have enough generating capacity either but time will tell on that one. No-one seems prepared to have a proper debate about our lack of generating and distribution capacity because it’s got to be EVs and anyone who argues against this is killing the environment and doesn’t care. Which is ridiculous.

Great post!

This is exactly the case. I said before and I will repeat it again - I am not against BEVs, I can see benefit of them and I can see certain uses for which they are great. However, what I am always saying is that BEVs are not suitable for everyone and not everyone could own them... somehow this instantly makes me into anti-BEV anti-environment climate change denier. People like to see this as black and white issue which really hinders proper debate and this is not only the case here, but at national and international level itself. 

As for capacity topic, again you are correct - I didn't want to further overcomplicate this topic, but when I say capacity I mean overall infrastructure to charge BEVs. As you said generating enough electricity is just one part of the puzzle, then you need to distribute it, then the actual households have to have correct wiring, then the correct chargers have to be installed if there is place for them. This is not overnight job like some people like to think.

In the end of the day what I am saying is that - if we want to ban ICE in 2030, then we need at least 10 years to build-up all the pieces of the puzzle and currently I just can't see any progress. Sure there we hear everyday about new super charger or fast public charger, but that again is just small part of overall network we need if we want BEVs to be viable for wider public. And that is my concern... 

On top of that knowing how untrustworthy our government is I would not be surprised if 2030 comes and then we realise nothing is ready! I personally almost certain that will be the case... 

On top of all the issues current crop of BEVs have other dirty secrets... they may provide CO2 advantage, but mining practices and recycling of the cars themselves could become a problem when they are more widespread. Taking best case scenario where we replace most polluting cars, which drive in short distances in the city with small number BEVs works on small scale and damage to the environment could be manageable, but when we go on big scale with plan to replace ALL cars with BEVs then the risk and damage may not stack-up. Again this does not mean I deny the benefits of BEVs, I am just saying there are two sides of it and the topic is far more complicated.

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, Mincey said:

But where are they going to refuel? (runs and looks for cover... 😉 )

Hydrogen power becomes more viable the bigger is the vehicle, as such it seems like ships are the best place to start. I would imagine they either going to have enough for entire journey, or like other ships they can refuel at sea (called bunkering). The difference is that instead of getting heavy fuel oil (extremely poor quality and toxic fuel) from tanker, they will get liquid hydrogen from LNG carrier. Importantly if spill happens... this is just hydrogen!

And this last bit is SO IMPORTANT! Most of marine disasters by the number and by the impact is caused by spilled oil! Imagine how much better is when ship runs on hydrogen... spills are literally no longer an issue! Even if ship get's stuck and needs to be refloated, in theory they can just dump all their fuel directly into the sea without any impact at all... this is massive.

Although I am not sure how this relates to the topic of new IS 🤣

[PaulWhitt20]

The Hydrogen would help it float 😃

[Linas.P]

Just don't forget we are talking about liquified hydrogen here and not hydrogen gas. with all the equipment required for storing it (pressurised tank) it is certainly heavier than water, although maybe not as heavy as aforementioned heavy fuel oil.

[Las Palmas]

6 hours ago, Malc said:

there's a solution to this in the making right now

HamburgSud ( the Dr Oetker baking people actually ) sold it's entire fleet to Maersk a year or so back

Maersk has on order right now the first of probably many to come...  Hydrogen Fuel Cell powered container ships

Malc

Why would Dr Oetker have ships? All ingredients in products from that company are chemistry or other wise synthetic that can be produced in Germany.

[Malc]

Just now, Las Palmas said:

Why would Dr Oetker have ships?

Strangely I asked this same Q when I was asked to provide a sea passage for a pax from the west coast of USA to Australia  ( my travel business ) and there is no ( or was none then ) cruise ship going that way at all ....  just commercial, and ONLY, at the time, HamburgSud which gave my pax the " owners " cabin for the 30 day ? voyage, via NZ etc  ..  and all with very personal service, wifi etc 

My investigations whilst producing this surprise also LED me to investigate it all and Dr Oetker had 50% of it's profits ( and t/o ? )  from container shipping and it's own fleet of ships ....  some £billions ........  besides factories in India producing local spices and some other odd-ball facts about the substantial and significant Dr Oetker business

Malc

[Las Palmas]

7 minutes ago, Malc said:

Strangely I asked this same Q when I was asked to provide a sea passage for a pax from the west coast of USA to Australia  ( my travel business ) and there is no ( or was none then ) cruise ship going that way at all ....  just commercial, and ONLY, at the time, HamburgSud which gave my pax the " owners " cabin for the 30 day ? voyage, via NZ etc  ..  and all with very personal service, wifi etc 

My investigations whilst producing this surprise also led me to investigate it all and Dr Oetker had 50% of it's profits ( and t/o ? )  from container shipping and it's own fleet of ships ....  some £billions ........  besides factories in India producing local spices and some other odd-ball facts about the substantial and significant Dr Oetker business

Malc

Wonder where they are selling the spices from India as the vanilla in their products are all vanillin, which has nothing to do with vanilla.

[Malc]

3 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

where they are selling the spices from India

Why just vanilla ?  India is a producer of a host of wonderful spices

Malc

[Las Palmas]

44 minutes ago, Malc said:

Why just vanilla ?  India is a producer of a host of wonderful spices

Malc

I love spicy food from India, but the food from Pakistan is far hotter. Wasabi from Japan is also pretty strong. We grow our own chilli as then we can have it both strong and fresh with a really nice fruity and fresh bite.

Why vanilla, because that is mentioned on so many of the products from Dr Oetker and is always fake.

[Guest]

On 7/24/2021 at 9:25 PM, Linas.P said:

Again you playing same hypocritical line. I have already answered your question - it is impossible, because there are no hydrogen stations near Leicester.

... and no I am not joking at all... and you know that without Supercharger being at Fort William it would be nearly impossible to visit it with average BEV. Only very few long range BEVs can actually make that journey and comeback to either Glasgow or Inverness. Looking at the map is kind of obvious realistically you need 240 miles of actual range (so ~280 miles claimed) to go from Glasgow and back, otherwise you have to go around via Perth>Aviemore/Inverness where you will still need BEV with 140 miles or more of actual range which most of BEVs can do nowadays:

If you say having Supercharger in your destination does not affect your planning, then I just don't believe you. 

That is the same as it is impossible for me to drive BEV anywhere at all, because I can't charge it at home. Yet I can easily own HCV and go to both Fort William and good 200 miles in any direction from London. Not to mention Hydrogen network is in complete infancy at the moment and playing the same line as you I can say that "in future you can simply fill hydrogen in any petrol station".

Just to add to this, my son has an electric Kia Niro, he drove from Derby to Inverness to see family then spent a few days doing the NC500 then drove back to Derby, he had no problems charging his car.

[ganzoom]

1 hour ago, Derant said:

Just to add to this, my son has an electric Kia Niro, he drove from Derby to Inverness to see family then spent a few days doing the NC500 then drove back to Derby, he had no problems charging his car.

How dare you bring in real world objective view points into this 'discussion'. 

Unless you can quote fantastical claims for mythical technologies based on non existent real world experience, with no time frames for deployment, your view point counts for nothing:).

[dutchie01]

Oh dear, something tells me that Battery development is only starting.

 

https://www.pocket-lint.com/gadgets/news/130380-future-batteries-coming-soon-charge-in-seconds-last-months-and-power-over-the-air

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/19/electric-car-batteries-race-ahead-with-five-minute-charging-times

https://www.greenbiz.com/article/new-ev-battery-shows-big-promise

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/30/why-lithium-metal-batteries-could-replace-lithium-ion-batteries-in-evs.html

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a36321196/bmw-ford-solid-state-battery-investment-announced/

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, Derant said:

Just to add to this, my son has an electric Kia Niro, he drove from Derby to Inverness to see family then spent a few days doing the NC500 then drove back to Derby, he had no problems charging his car.

And? 

Lets start from basics - can you son charge his car at home?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

And? 

Lets start from basics - can you son charge his car at home?

Yes, he lives in a mid terraced house with a drive at the front, he has a charger fitted, can you fill your car with petrol at home?

[serbarry]

2 minutes ago, Derant said:

Yes, he lives in a mid terraced house with a drive at the front, he has a charger fitted, can you fill your car with petrol at home?

Does everybody in UK live in a mid terraced house with a charging point for an electric car? I don't need to fill my car with petrol at home because I go to the so called petrol stations where you fill up the tank in 3-4 minutes and pay. 

[Las Palmas]

12 minutes ago, Derant said:

Yes, he lives in a mid terraced house with a drive at the front, he has a charger fitted, can you fill your car with petrol at home?

Lucky guy.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, serbarry said:

Does everybody in UK live in a mid terraced house with a charging point for an electric car? I don't need to fill my car with petrol at home because I go to the so called petrol stations where you fill up the tank in 3-4 minutes and pay. 

I was asked if he could charge his car at home…..I answered the question, not my fault you don’t like the answer, yes I know about petrol stations as I use them, my son used charging points on his Scottish trip a bit like petrol stations I suppose although lots cheaper, I am not for or against electric cars just pointing out people can live quite comfortably with them.

[Linas.P]

19 minutes ago, Derant said:

Yes, he lives in a mid terraced house with a drive at the front, he has a charger fitted, can you fill your car with petrol at home?

So great for him - he is one in ~300k people in UK who can do it ( ~0.1% of all motorists)... as well if we are joking like that - technically I can refuel at home, because I can have jerry can with petrol and refuel my car literally anywhere. Obviously, I would not do that because it is just easier to go to petrol station.

And that is my point - most of people in UK don't live in the house where they can recharge electric car and thus it makes ownership of BEV not viable option.  

3 minutes ago, Derant said:

I was asked if he could charge his car at home…..I answered the question, not my fault you don’t like the answer,

my son used charging points on his Scottish trip a bit like petrol stations I suppose although lots cheaper,

It has nothing to do with liking or not liking the answer. I asked you answered. The reason I asked question, because that is what makes a difference. Would he own BEV if he could not charge at home - most likely not!

Regarding petrol station vs. charge point - you know they are nothing alike and are not comparable. One takes 2-3 minutes to use another takes 30-60minutes to use. 

As well not, electricity is cheap because it is not excessively taxed for no good reason. 85% of fuel price is duties and taxes. It is just a matter of time when EVs will be charged in some way.

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Linas.P said:

So great for him - he is one in ~300k people in UK who can do it ( ~0.1% of all motorists)... as well if we are joking like that - technically I can refuel at home, because I can have jerry can with petrol and refuel my car literally anywhere. Obviously, I would not do that because it is just easier to go to petrol station.

And that is my point - most of people in UK don't live in the house where they can recharge electric car and thus it makes ownership of BEV not viable option.

 

You asked if he could charge at home I answered you, he can charge away from home like I have said….now you are going to use Jerry cans to prove your point and ignore that BEV can be charged at home or away from home

i suggest you stop putting prejudices before facts

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

Lucky guy.

Well I am his dad

[serbarry]

4 minutes ago, Derant said:

I was asked if he could charge his car at home…..I answered the question, not my fault you don’t like the answer, yes I know about petrol stations as I use them, my son used charging points on his Scottish trip a bit like petrol stations I suppose although lots cheaper, I am not for or against electric cars just pointing out people can live quite comfortably with them.

The point is not that I don't like the answer but as Linas explained and if you had read 6 pages of discussion you would understand that we are disputing the possibility for the majority of motorists to own and comfortably charge at home an electric car. Your question if we can fill up the tank at home with petrol does not make much sense in my opinion. 

[Linas.P]

2 minutes ago, Derant said:

You asked if he could charge at home I answered you, he can charge away from home like I have said….now you are going to use Jerry cans to prove your point and ignore that BEV can be charged at home or away from home

i suggest you stop putting prejudices before facts

Charging BEV away from home is as ridiculous as charging ICE with jerry can at home. And we both know it. You say "if you can't charge at home you change charge elsewhere" just to prove your point as well. So why is this hypocrisy? You want to play this game let's play this game, but we both know that this is ridiculous... 

[Guest]

Just now, serbarry said:

The point is not that I don't like the answer but as Linas explained and if you had read 6 pages of discussion you would understand that we are disputing the possibility for the majority of motorists to own and comfortably charge at home an electric car. Your question if we can fill up the tank at home with petrol does not make much sense in my opinion. 

Read my earlier post, I stated my son had no problem driving around Scotland in his electric car, Linas asked about home charging, my comment about filling a petrol car at home was in response to that, it’s irrelevant to my earlier post

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Charging BEV away from home is as ridiculous as charging ICE with jerry can at home. And we both know it. You say "if you can't charge at home you change charge elsewhere" just to prove your point as well. So why is this hypocrisy? You want to play this game let's play this game, but we both know that this is ridiculous... 

I gave you an example of someone charging away from home on a long trip, yet you think it’s ridiculous, we have a different view