Recommendations for Hb4 9006 led bulbs for fogs.

[Shelside]

Can anyone give any pointers for these bulbs? 

Is it worth changing the halogens to leds or should I just upgrade to better halogens. I have just put LED t10s into the sidelight spaces and it looks very good alongside the hids. The fogs look horrible though. I can't seem to find any decent reviews or recommendations for good quality, reliable hb4s. 

Anyone gone down this route? 

[Herbie]

I don't know the answer but remember that fog causes light to bounce back so you don't wnt anything too bright or you'll just succeed in dazzling yourself.

[Chris111]

There is the legal aspect as well. This is taken from https://www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/ FAQs

🚗 Are LED car bulbs legal?

LED bulbs are road legal in the UK only if your vehicle's headlights were purpose built for LED's.

Upgrading the technology from Halogen to LED is technically not road legal as they cannot be E-marked.

[Herbie]

3 minutes ago, Chris111 said:

There is the legal aspect as well. This is taken from https://www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/ FAQs

🚗 Are LED car bulbs legal?

LED bulbs are road legal in the UK only if your vehicle's headlights were purpose built for LED's.

Upgrading the technology from Halogen to LED is technically not road legal as they cannot be E-marked.

I don't think that applies to fog lights but purely to headlights.

The legislation was brought in because too many drivers were being dazzled by poorly fitted LED headlight bulbs.

[Las Palmas]

Our CT has LED fog lights. The washer that is required is only for the headlights and is not washing the fog lights. Also fog lights are supposed to be placed very low on the car and can/should light up beneath the fog. Cars built with LED headlights (and HID/Xenon) bulbs must/should also have a system to adjust the light so it will emit light same level and distance when loaded in the rear of the car as with a driver only in it in order not to blind oncoming traffic.

https://www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/  is for cars older than 2014 and will only show halogen as light for CT, while we have LED from factory.

[Shelside]

48 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

Our CT has LED fog lights. The washer that is required is only for the headlights and is not washing the fog lights. Also fog lights are supposed to be placed very low on the car and can/should light up beneath the fog. Cars built with LED headlights (and HID/Xenon) bulbs must/should also have a system to adjust the light so it will emit light same level and distance when loaded in the rear of the car as with a driver only in it in order not to blind oncoming traffic.

https://www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/  is for cars older than 2014 and will only show halogen as light for CT, while we have LED from factory.

So what bulbs do you have in yours? Are they original or have you had to replace them. This is what I want to know really, which ones are any good. There seems to be a lot of rubbish ones out there. 

As Herbie has said, I don't think the fogs are included in any checks on the Mot. I have put some t10 leds in the sidelights but will probably put the halogens back in for the Mot. Or, might just try my luck. 🤞

[Las Palmas]

Original LED low beam, original LED fog light, halogen ugly colour high beam (probably original as it is never used, the low beam is sufficient).

Thinking of buying LED for high beam as well since the car has washing for headlight already and washing seems not needed for the fog light since there is none.

The fog lights were controlled here when car was approved for 2 more years so it may be different in different countries.

[OldTrout]

Col,

I don't know what bulbs might be available but do take Herbie's comments into account.

Light is scattered according to the fourth power of is wavelength. Roughly, blue light is scattered 16x more than red light. Light from your lamps which is scattered does not penetrate up the road. Worse lots of it comes back at you. That is the reason fog lamps are orange - much less scattering. The colour temperature should be low. A bulb with a colour temperature of 10k would make a very ineffective fog lamp. One with 3k would be very much better.

John

[Superduner]

Just a word of warning about LEDs for high beam.  Have a look at the reflector and see if there is a "flat" area running vertically down the middle from top to bottom.  If there is, then you won't get a good beam pattern from an LED bulb, as on most of them the light comes out to the sides.

On my RX, it's this middle bit that throws that light into the distance and with the LEDs I had it just was not receiving any light.

In the end I went for an HID upgrade bulb as they give out light more or less all round.

[Las Palmas]

2 hours ago, OldTrout said:

Col,

I don't know what bulbs might be available but do take Herbie's comments into account.

Light is scattered according to the fourth power of is wavelength. Roughly, blue light is scattered 16x more than red light. Light from your lamps which is scattered does not penetrate up the road. Worse lots of it comes back at you. That is the reason fog lamps are orange - much less scattering. The colour temperature should be low. A bulb with a colour temperature of 10k would make a very ineffective fog lamp. One with 3k would be very much better.

John

Fog lights in our CT are LED from factory and the light from the fog lamps is white. No problem at all with that.

Contacted an old friend that is still working in car accessories and he told me that halogen today can get as white as to 3500 Kelvin and that is how far the gas inside halogen lamps can go (before halogen was max 3000). White is around 4800 to 5600 and LED are usually sold as 6000 which is a little to the blue side but still not as blue as Xenon gas can go; some can be as blue as 8000 - maybe even 10000 which is what was wanted when Xenon lamps were introduced and Audi had some very blue light on from factory for a while. LED can be made in many colours but white as sunlight is what I prefer.

In 1970 and a bit later all French cars had very yellow halogen head-light, both low- and high beam and that was mentioned as good in fog, but that is not the colour you see in new cars (and not in French cars either) so maybe placing lamps lower so the light gets down to the road instead of up in the air is making more difference than colour of the light.

john

[OldTrout]

2 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

Fog lights in our CT are LED from factory and the light from the fog lamps is white. No problem at all with that.

Contacted an old friend that is still working in car accessories and he told me that halogen today can get as white as to 3500 Kelvin and that is how far the gas inside halogen lamps can go (before halogen was max 3000). White is around 4800 to 5600 and LED are usually sold as 6000 which is a little to the blue side but still not as blue as Xenon gas can go; some can be as blue as 8000 - maybe even 10000 which is what was wanted when Xenon lamps were introduced and Audi had some very blue light on from factory for a while. LED can be made in many colours but white as sunlight is what I prefer.

In 1970 and a bit later all French cars had very yellow halogen head-light, both low- and high beam and that was mentioned as good in fog, but that is not the colour you see in new cars (and not in French cars either) so maybe placing lamps lower so the light gets down to the road instead of up in the air is making more difference than colour of the light.

The spectral curve of LEDs is improving all the time. There were some very nasty spikes curves to start with but they are getting better.

Lamp placing might well help but there is no way round the physics.

Fortunately fog is fairly rare in the UK. My experience in my old Mk2 GS was such that the one time when I needed fog lights I had to stop and read the manual to find how to turn them on.

John

[Las Palmas]

3 minutes ago, OldTrout said:

 My experience in my old Mk2 GS was such that the one time when I needed fog lights I had to stop and read the manual to find how to turn them on.

John

Please do not tell John that something in the manual is not clear and easy to understand.

[Las Palmas]

3 hours ago, Superduner said:

Just a word of warning about LEDs for high beam.  Have a look at the reflector and see if there is a "flat" area running vertically down the middle from top to bottom.  If there is, then you won't get a good beam pattern from an LED bulb, as on most of them the light comes out to the sides.

On my RX, it's this middle bit that throws that light into the distance and with the LEDs I had it just was not receiving any light.

In the end I went for an HID upgrade bulb as they give out light more or less all round.

HID (Xenon gas bulbs) emit light to all sides just like halogen bulbs. Many LED lamps only emit light to one side. You can get LED emitting light to all sides just like the HID so if of same length light should be equal.

[Las Palmas]

Just found this headlight for most, maybe all of our cars.

https//headlightsize.com/category/lexus

Lexus headlight.pdf

[royoftherovers]

6 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

Just found this headlight for most, maybe all of our cars.

https//headlightsize.com/category/lexus

Lexus headlight.pdf 503.98 kB · 0 downloads

Would have been quicker and easier John old pal, had you looked in your Handbook😉

[Las Palmas]

1 hour ago, royoftherovers said:

Would have been quicker and easier John old pal, had you looked in your Handbook😉

Hi John,

Looked before and found nothing, but when you say so I will look again.

After looking I found that the handbook show people who do not know how to change bulbs are helped (turn anticlockwise bla, bla, bla, bla, etc. - replace bulb turn clockwise) while most in this forum probably have done that before so they do not need these information’s. Still searching there seems to be no mentioning of which kind of bulbs to buy, so you will have to take the old bulb out to find out which bulb you need and if you do not know which bulb you are holding in your hand you need to take it to a place to buy bulbs and ask for replacement. I find the handbook like before mentioned OK as something to read in if you need to know what Lexus think you should know. That in it is shown how to turn on and off the different lights might just be to regard the Lexus customers for not extremely bright. And while that also is fine to inform; it would be useful if type of bulbs were mentioned.

The easiest if of course to drive to Lexus, and let them change the bulb, if/when they have time to do it. Expect they will charge more for the bulbs than the same bulbs can be bought for other places and installing will probably cost the most of an hour as that is the least they write bills for; but simple information about bulb type should be to find in the manual.

This is of course only what I think and I am probably expecting too much.

[royoftherovers]

I was really jesting old pal as I think you knew but had you looked under "specifications" all would have been revealed (about many many things)👍👍

[Las Palmas]

18 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

I was really jesting old pal as I think you knew but had you looked under "specifications" all would have been revealed (about many many things)👍👍

Never said that before: information about the same thing in the handbook are spread out so many places that it is ************ ???????

Maybe I said that before.   🤐

[Shelside]

On 7/15/2021 at 10:44 AM, Superduner said:

Just a word of warning about LEDs for high beam.  Have a look at the reflector and see if there is a "flat" area running vertically down the middle from top to bottom.  If there is, then you won't get a good beam pattern from an LED bulb, as on most of them the light comes out to the sides.

On my RX, it's this middle bit that throws that light into the distance and with the LEDs I had it just was not receiving any light.

In the end I went for an HID upgrade bulb as they give out light more or less all round.

I'm not looking for high beam replacement, just Fogs. 

[Las Palmas]

1 hour ago, Shelside said:

I'm not looking for high beam replacement, just Fogs. 

If your fog lamps are low on the car and you can adjust the light so it light up the road and not the air above, you will have no problem with white light. What is legal I have no idea about.

Some LED bulbs are of laser type and they will not light much air up only where they are pointed. I believe that could give some very good fog light if beam is adjusted correct. What is legal?

 

[OldTrout]

7 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

If your fog lamps are low on the car and you can adjust the light so it light up the road and not the air above, you will have no problem with white light. What is legal I have no idea about.

Some LED bulbs are of laser type and they will not light much air up only where they are pointed. I believe that could give some very good fog light if beam is adjusted correct. What is legal?

 

John,

Could you explain what a "laser type" of LED is please?

John

[Las Palmas]

2 minutes ago, OldTrout said:

John,

Could you explain what a "laser type" of LED is please?

John

Hi John,

something like this: https://www.led-car-light-manufacturer.com/product/laser-alpha/

It is the lens on it that makes sure the light is not spreading and the problem with this type of light is that it must point down as it is not good to look into, but it would be able to give light under the fog and when made correct I believe it would be the best thing for driving in that kind of weather. Problem with fog light is when it blinds the driver. I once was driving in mountains with so much fog it was close to stupid driving there, but slowly and with head out of window made it home. That was long before there was HID or LED and halogens were all yellow.

[OldTrout]

19 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

Hi John,

something like this: https://www.led-car-light-manufacturer.com/product/laser-alpha/

It is the lens on it that makes sure the light is not spreading and the problem with this type of light is that it must point down as it is not good to look into, but it would be able to give light under the fog and when made correct I believe it would be the best thing for driving in that kind of weather. Problem with fog light is when it blinds the driver. I once was driving in mountains with so much fog it was close to stupid driving there, but slowly and with head out of window made it home. That was long before there was HID or LED and halogens were all yellow.

John,

Thank you. Interesting use of the word laser. My understanding is that the laser light stimulates fluorescence in a crystal which is the light that comes out. They call this "pure white LASER" even though it is not.  "Turbo" could perhaps be added to imply even more output but that would not be true.

Under LED fog lamps I found "Atom-E is available in 6500K white and 3000K yellow LEDS. The wavelength of the 3000K LED is very close to that of halogen light, which is of strong penetration and conducive to safe driving in foggy days." The italics are mine.

What does "3000m throwing range" mean? It is possible to bounce laser light off the moon but not much comes back. Does that mean those lasers have a throwing range of 800,000m?

Which is not to say that their 3000k fog light are not very good. I just object to pseudo science in advertising.

John

[ColinBarber]

Given that you can only legally use fog lights when visibility is 100 metres or less I've not switched mine on for 15+ years so I don't really care what colour light that produce, and my GS didn't have them anyway 😉 

[Las Palmas]

2 hours ago, OldTrout said:

John,

Thank you. Interesting use of the word laser. My understanding is that the laser light stimulates fluorescence in a crystal which is the light that comes out. They call this "pure white LASER" even though it is not.  "Turbo" could perhaps be added to imply even more output but that would not be true.

Under LED fog lamps I found "Atom-E is available in 6500K white and 3000K yellow LEDS. The wavelength of the 3000K LED is very close to that of halogen light, which is of strong penetration and conducive to safe driving in foggy days." The italics are mine.

What does "3000m throwing range" mean? It is possible to bounce laser light off the moon but not much comes back. Does that mean those lasers have a throwing range of 800,000m?

Which is not to say that their 3000k fog light are not very good. I just object to pseudo science in advertising.

John

John,

You are absolutely right that the way different companies are advertising their products are not just a bit stupid, but the pictures of light from the one they call laser is not bad if it is not photo-shopped. It would function great lighting up the road and not the fog in front of you. I do not know if they have somebody in the company that can throw the bulb 3km so know no more than you. 6500 is no longer pure white, it is getting a blue tint but 3000 is absolutely yellow. When I was living in Africa yellow halogen light was norm and it was no better than white if the lamp was positioned high. In the mountains it now and then was so foggy that driving more than 10km/h would be stupid and I used to drive with window down and head out of the window to see where I was going.

I asked for a price for the laser and will test it in fog light lamp and if it is good (and not extremely expensive) I may keep it. If throwing light only on the road it should not be able to harm anybody.

john