Any mods for LS400 and E10 fuel.

garagestmarien · June 25, 2021

Hi all,

I have done a search, but not found anything concrete.

But I see in the news, that in a short time E5 fuel and possibly 98 will be phased out.

So, is there any known changes that can be made for a LS400 to run on E10 or even E85 Ethanol?

Mine is a 94 model, non VVTI.

I did last year make a mistake at a French service station and put half a tank of E85 Ethanol in. I decided to drive to the next available place to top up with 98. But in the end drove home (Long trip) and arrived home with the fuel warning light just coming on, so I filled up with 98.

However, I never noticed any difference to running at the time and a year later the car still runs perfect.

So is it just a matter of changing O rings etc to be able to use E10 or E85 Ethanol? Or is there long term issues using this fuel.

If parts can be changed, what parts need changing?

ColinBarber · June 25, 2021

The problem is that Toyota/Lexus have only issued guidance for European sold vehicles built in 1998 or newer.

I've seen lists in other parts of the world that go back further and suggest the LS is fine, but I've also seen vehicles that aren't fine in other parts of the world but are ok on the European list so difficult to have true confidence.

I'd make an educated guess that you would be fine with E10.

You shouldn't get burnt valves as the closed loop fuel injection system should compensate - that is an issue for cars with carbs.
You shouldn't have an issue with extra moisture causing corrosion as the suppliers are meant to be controlling that.
You shouldn't have an issue with specific grade aluminium corrosion that affects early direct injection engines as you don't have that.

so the risk is possibly just seals (which are very likely to be fine) or longer term damage.

E85 is probably something to avoid though. That is much more likely to react to the fuel system and due to the lack of energy compared to normal petrol you would probably need to have the vehicle modified to compensate and maybe even have to fit larger injectors.

Malc · June 25, 2021

some years back touring europe I could only get E10 and the car drove fine for a few000 miles ,,,,,,,,,,,,, and no issues since with normal E5 so I'm thinking all will be well in the UK with the E10 :yes:

Malc

Tulpen · June 25, 2021

2 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

The problem is that Toyota/Lexus have only issued guidance for European sold vehicles built in 1998 or newer.

Here is a translated copy of the European info:

garagestmarien · July 6, 2021

I sent an email to Lexus in Netherlands (where I currently am), asking if it was possible to run E10 in my 1994 LS400, stating I have had the car for a long time and do not wish to get rid of it.

Or, if there was any modifications I could do, or parts to change.

I have received a reply as follows:

Dear mister S*****i,

Thank you for your message. You asked me if you can tank the E10 fuel for your beautiful Lexus LS400 from 1994. Our advise is to tank E5 or Premium fuel. The engine of your car is to old for the E10 fuel.

When you have any further questions please let me know.

Sincerely,

LOUWMAN & PARQUI B.V

Sander de Bruijn

Lexus Information Center

Follow Lexus

Malc · July 6, 2021

excellent to hear that from the " horses mouth " so to speak .......... a definitive answer from Lexus itself

BRILLIANT news

Thank you

Malc

Tulpen · July 6, 2021

I am, also, in Holland and Louwman have serviced my LS's for about 15 years now. I trust them and what they say.

ColinBarber · July 6, 2021

1 hour ago, Malc said:

excellent to hear that from the " horses mouth " so to speak .......... a definitive answer from Lexus itself

It's not though is it. Just a non-engineer, working for a marketing organisation (Lexus Europe) giving an answer that covers themselves because they have no facts about whether it is an issue or not.

Tulpen · July 6, 2021

2 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

It's not though is it. Just a non-engineer, working for a marketing organisation (Lexus Europe) giving an answer that covers themselves because they have no facts about whether it is an issue or not.

Wow, strong words. I presume, being you've just bad-mouthed someone who you have probably never met, that you can enlighten us all with your own wisdom.

ColinBarber · July 7, 2021

11 hours ago, Tulpen said:

Wow, strong words. I presume, being you've just bad-mouthed someone who you have probably never met, that you can enlighten us all with your own wisdom.

Lexus don't state that before 1998 E10 will cause a problem - they just don't have the data, have no desire to research that far back or don't care about vehicles that old. There are lists in Australia that state all Lexus vehicles back to 1986 are ok with E10 bar a couple of exceptions, but the issue is that one of the exceptions is the IS200 which isn't a problem in Europe, so either there are component changes or the data isn't trustworthy.

What we do know is that the majority of vehicles that are affected by E10 are carburettor based or early direct injection engines - neither of which related to the LS400.

If there is an incompatibility then it is likely to be long term rather than a quick failure, and would ultimately result in a minor fuel leak - therefore you certainly need to be careful here and whilst super unleaded remains easily available then you probably should use it - but what do you do when it isn't, scrap your LS? Personally I'd use E10 and keep an eye on things - at that age of vehicle you are susceptible to fuel pipe and o-ring deterioration resulting in minor fuel leaks anyway, unrelated to E10.

Regarding Lexus, I've personally received poor and downright incorrect advise from Lexus dealers and head office on multiple occasions, and so have many other here. Therefore I'd only trust information from them on this subject that can be traced back to engineering in Japan who are the only ones who know what materials and grades have been used in the components and whether they are going to have a problem with E10 - either Ethanol directly or the potential water content change that results, although the water issue is meant to be tightly controlled in Europe by the fuel suppliers and outlets.

BigBoomer · July 7, 2021

Does anyone know if the LS 400 petrol tanks are aluminium or steel? If steel, are they lined?
About the only problems I can think of with E10 in an LS400 would be rust in an unlined steel tank or steel fuel lines and water layers in the tank.
Chances are the fuel lines are all Copper/Nickel alloy as on most cars or possibly stainless, so not affected.

If your car stands for any length of time, the Ethanol in E10 will absorb water from the atmosphere.
Being denser than Petrol/Ethanol the water sinks to the bottom of the fuel tank and either rots out the tank or else gives you a thin layer of water where the fuel pump pickup is, and engines don't run well on water. You can prevent this separation with a fuel stabilising additive, but they ain't cheap.
If your LS is a daily driver, you don't need to worry about this, but if it's going to stand for more than a week or 2, then add stabiliser and take her for a 15-20 miles drive to mix it in thoroughly before parking her up. If you only driver her occasionally, I'd add stabiliser to every tank of E10.

Malc · July 7, 2021

Oh my .... there seem to be so many Questions to resolve for us Ls400 owners to rest easily ......... hoping someone has a useful and definitive correct answer for us soon eh !

Malc

runsgrateasanut · July 14, 2021

My LS having stood for almost a year now in France the only thing I can hope is that the 98 Super I filled up with at LeClerk some two thirds into the trip is all that is left in the Tank.

I think the Tank is Metal behind the Seat whereas the GS300 Tank at floor level may (??) be plastic, as it seems to have been plugged at some stage in its life. Put in that position to give extra Boot space I assume, though I feel it is an unsafe place to put a petrol tank imo.

Malc · July 14, 2021

just picked up this email guys ....... might there be anything here that assists I wonder ?

Noting the mention to check out the fuel hoses ....................

" Well the good news is that the technology exists to upgrade the fuel systems to cope with the new fuel. In truth, it’s good practice to renew ancient fuel lines as a precaution in any case and modern fuel hose sold by a reputable supplier is rated for use with E10. "

https://classicsworld.co.uk/guides/e10-fuel-a-classic-owners-guide/?utm_campaign=665672_Classics World newsletter 14%2F7&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Kelsey Media Ltd&dm_i=5D8F,E9MW,3J1ETD,1N17G,1

Malc

Newbie1 · July 20, 2021

When E5 came along the rubber fuel hoses on a Datsun of mine perished. They had been previously replaced and were in good nick. I would imagine all fuel hose is tolerant of ethanol now.