Squeaking/squealing from 2014 IS300h F-Sport when driving at low speed and braking - ready to sell as I can't take it anymore.

[Ken83]

I've had my 2014 IS300h F-Sport which I bought on 37k miles for 2 years. From 3 weeks into ownership I noticed a squealing/squeaking at low speeds and when braking. Its quite noticeable even when windows are up. 

As the car was in warranty I took it to my local Lexus dealership. They said that it needed new pads and discs (almost £600). these were changed at the cost of the Lexus I bought the car from as my local dealership said it wouldn't pass MOT as it was. Not long after (within a week) heard the noise again. 

 I too the car back again when my service was due and mentioned it was still happening. They checked at service and said nothing visually wrong so couldn't do anything about it but it had been checked. Plus they said they couldn't hear anything.

The noise persisted and I took it back again. This time the guy who deals with me said he'd see if there was anywhere they could grease (as someone had suggested this to me when I posted the issue in here). Again they couldn't hear anything. They gave the car back but again the noise re-appeared.

Gradually it feel like the noise was getting worse. Louder and more persistent (as sometimes you don't hear it). It also seems to be more apparent after a left turn and when coming to a full stop but not immediately after starting to drive, but after 10-15 minutes when things warm up. Also seems worse in summer.

I contacted Toyota customer services as I am really at my wits end with this after almost 2 years of loud squealing/squeaking EVERY time the car is driven. As it was during our last lockdown they said as soon as able take it back to the dealership and they will have a look at it.   

I took it in this week as my service was also due and as I drove into the car park there it was loud and clear. Unluckily for me there was nobody there to hear it. I then asked the rep I was seeing to stand in the car park and listen. Moved the car back and forth no sound. Applied the brake no sound. So I asked him to wait while I went around the block to 'warm it up'. When I returned the sound was there again but he had gone inside as they were busy! I got him back out and asked him to go around with me - masks on windows wide open. We drove around the block in perfect silence - no noise AT ALL! I was so frustrated until we finally turned into the car park and there it was loud as ever before I even applied the brake and squealing even more as it came to a stop. He said "ooh that doesn't sound right". Finally! I told him I've had to put up with that for 2 years, every day. Even my wife is irritated by it and she doesn't get irritated, she married me!

They had the car from Monday to Friday and changed the passenger side caliper. But apparently, this reduced the noise only so they changed the other one too.  I paid for the extended warranty so this went through that. My wife picked up the car on Friday as I was unwell and they said to her the problem should be solved. After having it back 3 times and suffering the disappointment of it coming back I didn't hold my breath.

Lo and behold, my wife took the kids out this morning and there was the noise again! 

I don't know what to do anymore and I am seriously contemplating cutting my losses and trading the car in somewhere which will lose me a good chunk of the £17k I paid for it. I will of course contact Lexus again but don't know how much more they will do (they quoted the caliper change at £500 each).

If anybody has any advice or has had the same issue and solved it somehow please let me know. I'm not mechanically minded so can't take off and clean anything - and to be honest I shouldn't have to as I have had far cheaper cars with no issues whatsoever. I thought I was trading up!

Any help would ne appreciated! 

Cheers

[NemesisUK]

Very common, I would say typical, of hybrids as the brakes get little physical use due to regenerative braking. My first RC300h was quite bad in is stop/start traffic but with careful modulation I could minimise the noise. My second RC the facelift version has two piece front discs and the noise is very much reduced, still there but reduced.

It's just something one has to live with IMHO it's hardly that dramatic but we are all different in our tolerance levels..

[Ken83]

Thanks for the response.

The issue I have is that I regularly go around London in hybrid Priuses that are older than my car in taxis and I see them drive past me regularly. I have never heard a sound from their brakes even when stopping so I don't think its a hybrid issue - especially since there are so many hybrids around now and I generally don't hear such noises.

As for the severity, Imagine you couldn't comfortably open you windows in summer as all you hear is squeals and squeaks constantly at low speed and very time you brake. Or when you're driving along and brake and the squeal is so loud people regularly turn around.

If it was minor I would ignore it (my wife especially because she really likes the car), but it really isn't. It's loud and persistent. And even she has had enough.

[Spacewagon52]

50 minutes ago, Ken83 said:

Thanks for the response.

The issue I have is that I regularly go around London in hybrid Priuses that are older than my car in taxis and I see them drive past me regularly. I have never heard a sound from their brakes even when stopping so I don't think its a hybrid issue - especially since there are so many hybrids around now and I generally don't hear such noises.

As for the severity, Imagine you couldn't comfortably open you windows in summer as all you hear is squeals and squeaks constantly at low speed and very time you brake. Or when you're driving along and brake and the squeal is so loud people regularly turn around.

If it was minor I would ignore it (my wife especially because she really likes the car), but it really isn't. It's loud and persistent. And even she has had enough.

Very frustrating but I think Peter has a point regarding the use of the brakes. If you drive steadily, the friction brakes hardly get any use. A taxi, I would imagine, gets a lot more stick regarding sharp braking - not wishing to be rude to Prius taxi drivers - due to them being in a hurry to get to the next job.

 

This is only a suggestion, and it probably will not work! Where it is safe to do so, get some speed up and then put the car into neutral and brake fairly hard a few times. This will "clean" the brake disks as they may not be getting much use. Others on here may have a better solution but it is worth a try.

[Ken83]

Thank you.

I guess neutral because the regen is not engaged in neutral so it will be pure braking? That's a great point. I've heard this before but I tried it while in drive and saw no difference but I guess I now know why!

Just to double check doing that couldn't damage the gearbox could it? Neutral shouldn't but these cars can be more complicated than others.

Cheers 

[ColinBarber]

It's not advisable to select N when moving; depending on the speed and the specific hybrid system generation/specification you can over speed MG1.

There is also no need - pressing hard on the brakes will always engage the mechanical brakes even if the hybrid system is doing a small amount of regenerative braking. Just do a couple of hard 60-10 mph braking runs in quick succession, that will clean the discs.

[Ken83]

Thanks Colin

[Spacewagon52]

34 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

It's not advisable to select N when moving; depending on the speed and the specific hybrid system generation/specification you can over speed MG1.

There is also no need - pressing hard on the brakes will always engage the mechanical brakes even if the hybrid system is doing a small amount of regenerative braking. Just do a couple of hard 60-10 mph braking runs in quick succession, that will clean the discs.

Thanks Colin, you did explain this before but I forgot!

[paulrnx]

This sounds to me like the brakes aren’t being used enough. Could be that the pads have glazed a bit. I’d take it for a thrash somewhere and do a lot of braking from 60 to 10 (as mentioned above) and do a long journey and get everything hot and keep braking heavily. I’ve never had this in any hybrid Lexus I’ve owned (had 4) and never had it  on a loan car either.

[Bratman91]

My IS250 suffers from much the same problem and I am sure that it is caused by glazing of the brake pads because of a very low mileage and gentle use. I endorse the advice from others on this thread to give the brakes a hard work-out (taking precautions to drive safely). You have nothing to lose!

[Shahpor]

My GS also suffered greatly from this.  It was so ear piercing that I was embarrassed to brake in front of anyone!

I don't know if it is luck or something else, but I tried using the brakes heavily for a while and it looks like it has helped.

Good luck!

[Ken83]

Thanks all. Seems like the general consensus is some heavy braking!

I'll fins a safe place to do this and try it out and let you all know how it goes.

Thanks for your time and responses.

Ken

[Ken83]

10 hours ago, Shahpor said:

My GS also suffered greatly from this.  It was so ear piercing that I was embarrassed to brake in front of anyone!

I don't know if it is luck or something else, but I tried using the brakes heavily for a while and it looks like it has helped.

Good luck!

Yes Sharpor, you felt my pain - it can be very embarrassing because its so loud!

[ColinBarber]

If you cannot resolve the issue, or it keeps coming back, then replace the pads with something like EBC redstuff which won't squeal and you will have less brake dust too.

[Ken83]

Hi guys,

Just to let you know I took the car out yesterday and did a total of six 60-10mph stops as suggested all in safe places and generated a lot of brake dust. The car brakes really well.

Unfortunately after all of that the noise was there loud as before. It definitely seems to start during and after a left turn. 

Not sure if it is pad related now or what to try next.

Thanks

Ken 

[Spacewagon52]

17 minutes ago, Ken83 said:

Hi guys,

Just to let you know I took the car out yesterday and did a total of six 60-10mph stops as suggested all in safe places and generated a lot of brake dust. The car brakes really well.

Unfortunately after all of that the noise was there loud as before. It definitely seems to start during and after a left turn. 

Not sure if it is pad related now or what to try next.

Thanks

Ken 

Very frustrating. Change of brake pads and / or discs may be an option but expensive if it does not cure the issue. Keep us informed what you do next.

[hieronymous]

Hi @Ken83, my first post on this forum, but many years on others..

The first time I came across the symptoms you describe, it was a friend's V12 Ferrari, annoyed him immensely, and getting parts was a nightmare. It can happen to any car, brakes and solutions are universal. In that case, the cause was sticking caliper pistons, which are pressured by the brake fluid to move the pads against the rotor (disc). When the brake pedal is released, the pistons should be sucked back a few thou' pulling the pads off the rotor. If the piston sticks, the pad can stay just touching the rotor - result, squeal, especially obvious at low speed. Any rotor wear can accentuate this.

The pistons can get out of round from heat, get corroded, and insufficiently lubricated. They may need machining or replacement.

Other related issues are water/air in the brake lines (how long since your brake fluid replaced?).

This work needs specialist repair, dealerships don't have the expertise. When I had my Prius serviced last year, my Toyota dealer (biggest in my country, NZ), had a large van on the forecourt with a bloke busy inside. He was a fulltime mobile brakes serviceman, and the van was crammed with small lathes, and other machining tools. I chatted - turns out he is called in by all the dealerships, who just unbolt the assemblies. This is what you need, but it won't be cheap..

So if you really want to keep and enjoy your car, I recommend you hunt down a specialist brake shop (or two) with a good reputation, and negotiate...

[royoftherovers]

Welcome Murray and what an excellent first Post. Many thanks.

[Spottedlaurel]

I'm getting much the same thing on my 2014 RX450h. A shame to be quietly driving on EV mode in town with it then making an unpleasant noise. Lexus dealer's official advice was to replace pads and discs, but as there was plenty left on both their verbal suggestion to get the discs skimmed.

I haven't done that yet, it's worked well on other cars I've had but I'm not sure how the transmission will take to being spun-up in neutral (which is how the on-car skimming works, I've had it done on a couple of other cars).

I imagine the answer will be to remove the discs and skim them in a lathe, and the pad surface can be inspected at the same time to see if it's glazed.

The strange thing is that when I've had this on other cars previously it's usually the case that the noise stops when the brakes are applied and there's more of the pad in contact with the disc, even if it returns once the brakes are released. With the RX, I've tried braking fairly heavily to a point where I think the 'normal' brakes should kick-in, but the squeak still occurs to standstill.

On 6/6/2021 at 10:48 AM, ColinBarber said:

If you cannot resolve the issue, or it keeps coming back, then replace the pads with something like EBC redstuff which won't squeal and you will have less brake dust too.

Obviously no issue to get OE brake pads and discs replaced by a non-Lexus dealer, but will the non-standard pads cause any warranty issue?

[steveo1973]

I Have a 2015 IS300H with the same sort of squeeking behaviour. Its only just recently started and to be fair isnt that bad. I only hear it when using EV mode at slow mph and yes it seems to do it more when I turn left. Normal driving I dont hear anything and nothing when breaking.

I was just wondering if one of the pads was scuffing or may be a caliper needs adjusting. Never the less its not in your league, just hope it doesnt develop into it though!!

[Ken83]

2 hours ago, hieronymous said:

Hi @Ken83, my first post on this forum, but many years on others..

The first time I came across the symptoms you describe, it was a friend's V12 Ferrari, annoyed him immensely, and getting parts was a nightmare. It can happen to any car, brakes and solutions are universal. In that case, the cause was sticking caliper pistons, which are pressured by the brake fluid to move the pads against the rotor (disc). When the brake pedal is released, the pistons should be sucked back a few thou' pulling the pads off the rotor. If the piston sticks, the pad can stay just touching the rotor - result, squeal, especially obvious at low speed. Any rotor wear can accentuate this.

The pistons can get out of round from heat, get corroded, and insufficiently lubricated. They may need machining or replacement.

Other related issues are water/air in the brake lines (how long since your brake fluid replaced?).

This work needs specialist repair, dealerships don't have the expertise. When I had my Prius serviced last year, my Toyota dealer (biggest in my country, NZ), had a large van on the forecourt with a bloke busy inside. He was a fulltime mobile brakes serviceman, and the van was crammed with small lathes, and other machining tools. I chatted - turns out he is called in by all the dealerships, who just unbolt the assemblies. This is what you need, but it won't be cheap..

So if you really want to keep and enjoy your car, I recommend you hunt down a specialist brake shop (or two) with a good reputation, and negotiate...

Thank you - I contacted Lexus again and they will have the car back to tale another look at it next month. But I will mention what you have said above and see if they can do anything themselves. If all else fails I may need to take it to specialist myself as you suggest.

[Ken83]

28 minutes ago, Spottedlaurel said:

I'm getting much the same thing on my 2014 RX450h. A shame to be quietly driving on EV mode in town with it then making an unpleasant noise. Lexus dealer's official advice was to replace pads and discs, but as there was plenty left on both their verbal suggestion to get the discs skimmed.

I haven't done that yet, it's worked well on other cars I've had but I'm not sure how the transmission will take to being spun-up in neutral (which is how the on-car skimming works, I've had it done on a couple of other cars).

I imagine the answer will be to remove the discs and skim them in a lathe, and the pad surface can be inspected at the same time to see if it's glazed.

The strange thing is that when I've had this on other cars previously it's usually the case that the noise stops when the brakes are applied and there's more of the pad in contact with the disc, even if it returns once the brakes are released. With the RX, I've tried braking fairly heavily to a point where I think the 'normal' brakes should kick-in, but the squeak still occurs to standstill.

Obviously no issue to get OE brake pads and discs replaced by a non-Lexus dealer, but will the non-standard pads cause any warranty issue?

I know exactly what you mean about being in quiet EV mode and all you hear is squeak, squeak, squeak. So annoying. I had brand new pads and discs fitted when it first emerged and they were probably quite for a few days and then the nose returned. So I'm not sure its that. They did say my calipers were seizing so they changed the two at the front but its still an issue so not sure if its the back ones too now. Though they say caliper failures on the IS300 are rare so to have 2 or maybe even 4 is unheard of. 

Thanks 

[Ken83]

6 minutes ago, steveo1973 said:

I Have a 2015 IS300H with the same sort of squeeking behaviour. Its only just recently started and to be fair isnt that bad. I only hear it when using EV mode at slow mph and yes it seems to do it more when I turn left. Normal driving I dont hear anything and nothing when breaking.

I was just wondering if one of the pads was scuffing or may be a caliper needs adjusting. Never the less its not in your league, just hope it doesnt develop into it though!!

I'm sorry to say over the 2 years mine has got progressively worse. The fact you see it on a let turn too is really strange. There must be some inherent defect. They changed both my front calipers but the problem persists so unless it was one of the back ones I'm not sure how much difference adjusting it will make. The good thing for you though is that if I find a solution, it should also work for you. Lets hope its a simple one :-S

[steveo1973]

7 minutes ago, Ken83 said:

I'm sorry to say over the 2 years mine has got progressively worse. The fact you see it on a let turn too is really strange. There must be some inherent defect. They changed both my front calipers but the problem persists so unless it was one of the back ones I'm not sure how much difference adjusting it will make. The good thing for you though is that if I find a solution, it should also work for you. Lets hope its a simple one :-S

Thanks Ken, Likewise if I manage to stop mine I will Keep you informed!!

[paulrnx]

Must admit this kind of issue would get under my skin after a period of time too. Hope you get it fixed.