Got my first IS 300h with 3 worn tyres and a fairly new - please advise

[royoftherovers]

32 minutes ago, paulrnx said:

I had all four tyres ‘replaced’ on an approved used Jaguar XE after two months of ownership. I asked the dealership to replace them, they refused, I replaced all four tyres at my own expense (badly cracking and I didn’t want to take the risk), I wrote to the Head Office of that dealership group, dealership then got back to me and agreed to pay me what I had paid for the tyres and arranged a bank transfer. Cost them more than if they’d have agreed to do it themselves because they paid me what I’d paid retail. It took a while but you just need to be firm, be polite, be consistent and make it clear that you want the dealership to replace or reimburse you.

The dealer principal is the first port of call after the sales person refuses but I had been told by the dealership that the dealer principal had refused my replacement so I went straight to their Head Office. If they’d have still refused I’d have gone down the small claims route. I had enough evidence to show the tyres needed to be replaced - another Jaguar dealership had condemned the tyres and I’d received a quote for replacement tyres and why they needed replacing. The poor condition of my tyres could not have been caused by me in such a relatively short time and mileage.

Get the car checked out somewhere else, get confirmation the tyres need replacing by way of a quote/ report and then put it all in writing to the dealer principal first and then to their head office if no joy.

Hope you get a decent outcome here 👍

As an aside. And we’re seeing this a lot as more and more people buy without viewing. Always email the dealership and ask some specific questions that you want answering.

1. Are all tyres of the same make and model.

2. What are the tread depths of all tyres.

3. Are there any stone chips, scuffs, scratches or any other damage to the car.

4. Is there any damage to any interior or any scuffs, marks, scratches etc.

5. Is there any damage to any of the alloy wheels.

6. Ask to see full evidence of the service history. Dates, mileage and location of each service. Compare this to the manufacturers’ recommended schedule. I have seen so many cars advertised as having full service history when they clearly haven’t.

If you don’t get the answers you want or something doesn’t feel quite right or the condition isn’t what you want then just walk away. There are so many other cars out there to choose from. If a sales person doesn’t reply to emails asking about the condition of the car then this is a big red flag to me.

I bought remotely from Lexus Tunbridge Wells. I had answers in an email and the video they sent me showed all four tyre makes (the same) and tread depth. They pointed out two areas of bodywork that needed slight attention and confirmed that they would touch them in. They confirmed that there was no other bodywork or interior damage. When I collected they showed me the two areas which had been touched in and I was pleased with the results. The car was exactly as described. A good experience all round and I was treated well and the dealership was honest with me. I knew I was buying a used car and so I didn’t expect the car to be in the same condition as a brand new car straight out of the factory. If I ever turned up to collect a car and it was not in the condition described, I’d walk away every single time without fail. Or I would negotiate a different price to allow me to put it right at my expense. Having said this, I’d always wonder what else the dealership may have covered up or been less than honest about. I still buy from people and if people are dishonest with me or can’t be arsed to reply or dodge the questions, I walk away.

I’m not trying to be clever here. I didn’t always do this and I got burned a bit in my younger days so there is more than a little bit of pain and experience in the above! 

An excellent contribution Paul. Thanks.

[paulrnx]

5 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

An excellent contribution Paul. Thanks.

Thanks John

[rayaans]

On 6/3/2021 at 11:10 PM, doog442 said:

That's a coincidence as my nephew is a Lexus technician. However he has never commented on workshop practices. I would find it appalling if he was to admit that him and his team weren't doing 'their job' . However we're not talking workshop practices even though my experience with Lexus has been 'shoddy', we're talking vehicle presentation at the point of sale which is something that anyone on here can see with there own eyes or with an inspection report. The OP is reporting 3 worn tyres and bodywork / windows covered in chips. We had a thread yesterday where someone pulled out due to a Lexus approved vehicle with a badly chipped windscreen that they refused to replace. Our dear Linas purchased a Lexus with no pads left, an RCF two weeks back in Scotland that needed a respray ....the place is littered with stuff like this. 

Also worth noting that my local BMW dealership service high powered police vehicles. They're not perfect and I've pulled them up over a few  minor issues however I'd like to think that it's more than there job's worth to not provide a service that meet a minimum standard. 

I think the issue is that he is a very junior member of the team and has had his hand twisted on a number of occasions, hence the discussion. He's brought it up to his manager but of course, nothing really gets done about it. 

Like I said though, the presentation of vehicles is extremely variable depending on the dealerships. Im sure some BMW dealerships are fantastic, as are some Lexus dealerships but you always get some that are poor. 

The RC-F in Scotland you mention did not need a respray. If you read the thread again, it had 3 chips on the roof which the OP said would need a respray in his opinion. Linas' case was poor I agree. No excuse for a car with no pads left. Im not sure what happened regarding the chip as I dont think Ive read the thread but again, I wouldnt expect them to replace the screen for a chip. 

Ive purchased a number of Lexus vehicles through different dealerships and they have been absolutely perfect. Im on my 5th now. Ive also purchased a Jaguar XE-S which was given to me with a "low washer fluid light" which the dealer said, it just needs a washer fluid top up. My arse, the sensor had gone. Ive also bought a number of Mercs, which on my search I noticed that the approved used scheme does not mean a car has to have any service history. As long as Merc inspect it, it can join the approved used scheme.

[steveo1973]

I bought a Lexus IS300H back in January on a 15plate and no it wasnt from a main dealer but full main dealer history and Battery health check. Is that a good thing.....Im not so sure. Personally I would never get my car serviced at a main dealer and wont with this one. Their are plenty of specialist garages out their who probably employ ex what ever dealer technitions who will probably make a better job and do over your car as they appreciate the business. All I do is pay my 60 pound a year to Lexus to look after the Battery and service it at a specialist!. Enough said 60k service at main dealer wanted 650 pound. Done at specialist using service pack from Lexus 220 pound!

[royoftherovers]

3 minutes ago, steveo1973 said:

I bought a Lexus IS300H back in January on a 15plate and no it wasnt from a main dealer but full main dealer history and battery health check. Is that a good thing.....Im not so sure. Personally I would never get my car serviced at a main dealer and wont with this one. Their are plenty of specialist garages out their who probably employ ex what ever dealer technitions who will probably make a better job and do over your car as they appreciate the business. All I do is pay my 60 pound a year to Lexus to look after the battery and service it at a specialist!. Enough said 60k service at main dealer wanted 650 pound. Done at specialist using service pack from Lexus 220 pound!

There speaks a savvy man.

[doog442]

9 hours ago, steveo1973 said:

I bought a Lexus IS300H back in January on a 15plate and no it wasnt from a main dealer but full main dealer history and battery health check. Is that a good thing.....Im not so sure. Personally I would never get my car serviced at a main dealer and wont with this one. Their are plenty of specialist garages out their who probably employ ex what ever dealer technitions who will probably make a better job and do over your car as they appreciate the business. All I do is pay my 60 pound a year to Lexus to look after the battery and service it at a specialist!. Enough said 60k service at main dealer wanted 650 pound. Done at specialist using service pack from Lexus 220 pound!

Although I kind of agree with your assertion I personally get my cars serviced at main dealers until the warranty expires then I go down the Independent route if I still have the car. I do have a trusted Independent for the family hacks but there's no way he can update the idrive with the service history. Only a few Independents can do this (I'm talking BMW) and their prices aren't that far off main dealer prices.

It's worth more to me when I move my cars on to have a full dealership history up until at least three years old. I know it isn't required for warranty purposes but its certainly paid off when part exchanging in the early years. No issues like yours at 5/6 years old.   

[rayaans]

Just now, doog442 said:

Although I kind of agree with your assertion I personally get my cars serviced at main dealers until the warranty expires then I go down the Independent route if I still have the car. I do have a trusted Independent for the family hacks but there's no way he can update the idrive with the service history. Only a few Independents can do this (I'm talking BMW) and their prices aren't that far off main dealer prices.

It's worth more to me when I move my cars on to have a full dealership history up until at least three years old. I know it isn't required for warranty purposes but its certainly paid off when part exchanging in the early years. No issues like yours at 5/6 years old.   

Am I missing something - I swear I read that you took the BMW to the dealership and they didnt change the brake fluid? Or did I just imagine it because I honestly cant find it anywhere!

The other thing to remember is the goodwill side of things. I had an issue with the IS300h where the head unit died following a Battery change. I followed the procedure to a tee but they said the radio went and everything goes through it on the earlier IS models. £4K repair bill for the head unit. Lexus Parts Direct quoted me £2800+ for the part alone. The car had a full service history and relatively low miles and Lexus UK fixed the problem and warranted it for £500. 

I suppose you pay your money, make your choices but its always handy to have a FLSH if something does manage to go POP, even if it is your fault!

[doog442]

20 minutes ago, rayaans said:

Am I missing something 

You are correct in your observation. The situation got quite delicate today and at risk of identifying the dealership I asked for my post to be removed.

20 minutes ago, rayaans said:

I suppose you pay your money, make your choices but its always handy to have a FLSH if something does manage to go POP, even if it is your fault!

My thoughts exactly, especially during the manufacturers warranty period. 

[ColinBarber]

36 minutes ago, rayaans said:

The other thing to remember is the goodwill side of things.

No guarantee of that though. FLSH GS F owners with interior carbon fibre trim delaminating, which each piece costing several hundred £ each to replace. Lexus GB response - you're cleaning it wrong, sorry extended warranty doesn't cover trim.

[steveo1973]

13 hours ago, rayaans said:

Am I missing something - I swear I read that you took the BMW to the dealership and they didnt change the brake fluid? Or did I just imagine it because I honestly cant find it anywhere!

The other thing to remember is the goodwill side of things. I had an issue with the IS300h where the head unit died following a battery change. I followed the procedure to a tee but they said the radio went and everything goes through it on the earlier IS models. £4K repair bill for the head unit. Lexus Parts Direct quoted me £2800+ for the part alone. The car had a full service history and relatively low miles and Lexus UK fixed the problem and warranted it for £500. 

I suppose you pay your money, make your choices but its always handy to have a FLSH if something does manage to go POP, even if it is your fault!

Sorry may be I should of been clearer on things, Yes I totally agree if your cars still under warranty then sure you should obviously use the stealer for any outstanding and future issues while you can. My opinion only relates to servicing a car out of warranty. As I still buy the sevice packs direct from lexus but use a good knowledgable independant to look after my car.

[royoftherovers]

12 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

No guarantee of that though. FLSH GS F owners with interior carbon fibre trim delaminating, which each piece costing several hundred £ each to replace. Lexus GB response - you're cleaning it wrong, sorry extended warranty doesn't cover trim.

I can see a minefield ahead Colin.

"Cleaning it wrong" v "Not fit for purpose"?

[DBIZO]

Excellent contribution and discussion, thanks all. I'm learning a lot.

Apologies for my absence, I had quite busy couple of weeks.

I quickly took the car for a tyre check at Halfords. Let me know if you think I better take it to a more serious shop for a detailed assessment, suggestions welcome - I'm in Portsmouth area, but driving quite a bit around, pretty much anywhere south and southwest of London could be good.

According to Halfords my tyres' tread depth are 

Front-right - 6mm (Goodyear)

Front-left - 4mm (Yokohama)

Rear-right - 5mm (Yokohama)

Rear-left - 4mm (Yokohama)

They said they are of no legal concern. I was surprised to learn that it is perfectly legal and accepted to have tyres of different make and condition on the same axle, even though it is not best practice. Same thing for cracks across the grooves and in treads. Attached pictures of the FR Goodyear (first picture) and FL Yokohama (second and third) to show the difference. 

I'm interested to hear what you think about the tyres' condition, and if that's something acceptable from a Lexus franchise. 

Judged by my own reaction as well as those of some of my friends that this is how Lexus sells a car, I still think I want to raise this with Snows and Lexus UK. If they want to be a luxury brand, operating a caveat emptor principle is not going to cut it.

Cheers!

 

 

 

[wharfhouse]

Certainly no legal or particular safety issue mixing different brands of tyres - the old, old issue used to be not mixing radial and crossply tyres on the same axle. As for the Yokohama tyres they do look past their best - the cracks are due to age of the tyres and not unusual as tyres age so my guess is that the car hasn't done much mileage in the last few years and those tyres are certainly 3+ years old. The newer Goodyear is probably due to either a puncture or possibly an alignment issue as one of those Yokohama tyres has a well worn shoulder for the amount of tread left. Whether you will now get anything out of Lexus not sure now but if not I'd just change all 4 tyres for new and enjoy the car. May be worth checking the alignment depending on those other tyres. 

[royoftherovers]

The Tyres are legal as far as tread depth is concerned.

What is the date of manufacture on the side of each tyre ?

One`s maximum leverage or clout appears just before purchase. If due diligence has been performed, then that is when one asks for assume deficiencies to be corrected. I would have asked for 4 new tyres depending on the dates of manufacture and for the odd one out to be replaced if the Tyres were less than 5 years old.

I agree with you that the principle of Caveat Emptor should not apply when purchasing from Lexus, but sadly car Salesmen are just car Salesmen and principled gentlemen they are not. That is why Due Diligence needs to be performed and all agreements as regards action required is documented. Put it all down to experience, I suggest and advise all of your friends to do likewise.

[200h]

6 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

The Tyres are legal as far as tread depth is concerned.

What is the date of manufacture on the side of each tyre ?

 

the date code is normally a 4 digit number something like 5014 or 2814

this means the tyre had been made in the 50th week of 2014

                                                   or

                                                                          28th week of 2014

you get the gist of things

[paulrnx]

I think you have a case. Take photos and gather the evidence. Then call the dealership and say you are not happy with the condition of the tyres and you would like them replaced. If they won’t then write to the dealership asking for the same and with photos. The cracking is bad and renders those tyres as unsafe in my opinion. I’m not sure Halfords is the place to go to for you re assessment. A specialist tyre place would be best I think.

[200h]

i'm sure in the past i have had an advisory for cracks in the tread area of a tyre

[wharfhouse]

12 hours ago, 200h said:

i'm sure in the past i have had an advisory for cracks in the tread area of a tyre

Yes I've had advisories too in the past for cracks in the tread and it can be a failure if they are really bad, especially if the cracks are in the side wall.

[mikejt]

Get in touch with head office. If they're interested email pics. Give it a try! 

[DBIZO]

I'm reporting back only now as I've got some developments. 

Without creating a saga out of a series of mundane events, I've also had a 12V Battery failure since I'd last checked in after parking at Stansted for two weeks. The Battery was as fully charged as it possibly could have been - daily use over months with numerous long drives, and a two and a half hour drive to Stansted before she got parked up. I thought I was prepared - switched off key sensing, had a jump starter Battery fully charged in the boot. Needles to say the car didn't boot up two weeks later, worse still it didn't seem to react to either charging the 12V Battery or trying to jump-start the hybrid system. I followed the car manual to the letter. Roadside assistance arrived many hours later, and couldn't get it up and running either. The guy was about to leave and suggest we took on a room nearby, when the car decided it was time to go home - the hybrid system/computer booted up. It is fairly clear to me that the Battery was not in a good condition, either EOL or deep discharged in the past. 

I've finally sat down and wrote a complaint to Snows head office listing all the shortcomings - tyres, outdated navigation map/software, Battery. 

To my surprise, I've got a positive response. Marcus at Snows gave me a call, accepted my complaints, and agreed to rectify them - I asked for free navigation update, full set of factory Yokohama tyres at cost (I know they are not top end, but didn't fancy spending more for now) and a free Battery, no labour or fees. Then I've got transferred to Lexus Hedge End, where Julie (I hope I got her name right) courteously booked me in for a service in early August, and will provide me with a loaner. All fantastic.

It was interesting for me to learn that, for example, navigation updates are not part of Lexus' used car standard, and that based on the job sheet, everything was up to spec with my car. That suggests that it's probably the Lexus Approved standards that need some upping too. Also, it would make sense for the dealers to offer a menu of upgrade options as part of a Lexus Approved sale, such as new set of tyres near cost, navi updates and 12V Battery replacement as standard, paint reconditioning/detailing. However, some of that may not be possible, I can only suspect, because of internal transfer pricing (like a map update). 

Anyway, so far Lexus managed to restore some faith and credibility.

Slowly, but surely, after these changes, then paint repairs, detailing and a ceramic coating down the line, I'll have a car I've hoped for.

 

[rayaans]

34 minutes ago, DBIZO said:

I'm reporting back only now as I've got some developments. 

Without creating a saga out of a series of mundane events, I've also had a 12V battery failure since I last checked in after parking at Stansted for two weeks. The battery was as fully charged as it possibly could have been - daily use over months with numerous long drives, and a two and a half hour drive to Stansted before she got parked up. I thought I was prepared - switched off key sensing, had a jump starter battery fully charged in the boot. Needles to say the car didn't boot up two weeks later, worse still it didn't seem to react to either charging the 12V battery or trying to jump-start the hybrid system. I followed the car manual to the letter. Roadside assistance arrived many hours later, and couldn't get it up and running either. The guy was about to leave and suggest we took on a room nearby, when the car decided it was time to go home - the hybrid system/computer booted up. It is fairly clear to me that the battery was not in a good condition, either EOL or deep discharged in the past. 

I've finally sat down and wrote a complaint to Snows head office listing all the shortcomings - tyres, outdated navigation map/software, battery. 

To my surprise, I've got a positive response. Marcus at Snows gave me a call, accepted my complaints, and agreed to rectify them - I asked for free navigation update, full set of factory Yokohama tyres at cost (I know they are not top end, but didn't fancy spending more for now) and a free battery, no labour or frees. Then I've got transferred to Lexus Hedge End, where Julie (I hope I got her name right) courteously booked me in for a service in early August, and will provide me with a loaner. All fantastic.

It was interesting for me to learn that, for example, navigation updates are not part of Lexus' used car standard, and that based on the job sheet, everything was up to spec with my car. That suggests that it's probably the Lexus Approved standards that need some upping too. Also, it would make sense for the dealers to offer a menu of upgrade options as part of a Lexus Approved sale, such as new set of tyres near cost, navi updates and 12V battery replacement as standard, paint reconditioning/detailing. However, some of that may not be possible, I can only suspect, because of internal transfer pricing (like a map update). 

Anyway, so far Lexus managed to restore some faith and credibility.

Slowly, but surely, after these changes, then paint repairs, detailing and a ceramic coating down the line, I'll have a car I've hoped for.

 

That's a good result. 

I think Battery testing is a difficult one as they'll test it and it'll probably be showing up as fine until it gets sat for an extended period of time. Bear in mind the dealer's around my end turn their vehicles on for 1 hour every week to ensure the batteries don't go flat.

The tyre thing is unusual. It probably wasn't checked at all to be honest as they shouldn't be at 3mm. Most dealers tend to go with 5mm+

I think some dealers are operating a Mercedes model whereby the customer tells them what's wrong and they sort it

[DBIZO]

Just closing this loop. This is now all done. Got the car back from Lexus Hedge End, can't complain, faultless service. Four new Yokohamas at cost (270 with VAT), free 12V Battery and software update, a free inspection, an they also nicely cleaned the car.

Thank you all for your thoughts and support in the matter, it actually helped me make my case.

[royoftherovers]

3 hours ago, DBIZO said:

Just closing this loop. This is now all done. Got the car back from Lexus Hedge End, can't complain, faultless service. Four new Yokohamas at cost (270 with VAT), free 12V battery and software update, a free inspection, an they also nicely cleaned the car.

Thank you all for your thoughts and support in the matter, it actually helped me make my case.

Thank you Daniel. Much appreciated.

[paulrnx]

11 hours ago, DBIZO said:

Just closing this loop. This is now all done. Got the car back from Lexus Hedge End, can't complain, faultless service. Four new Yokohamas at cost (270 with VAT), free 12V battery and software update, a free inspection, an they also nicely cleaned the car.

Thank you all for your thoughts and support in the matter, it actually helped me make my case.

Great stuff and well done. Sounds like a fair result given you get brand new tyres at cost and a free Battery. Excellent news 👍

[Linas.P]

Indeed, thanks for updating us on outcome... but I agree with you. Lexus GB probably need to set clearer guidelines for dealerships - at the moment it seems like it is bit of lottery. I consider "Lexus Approved" should actually mean something. Remind me of another member who got GS fitted with some no name ditchfinders and was told by dealer they see no issue fitting sub-standard tyres as long as they are road legal. 

Again seems like buying used car from Lexus is no different than buying from any other dealer, not better and not worse, just need to be careful and don't fall for false sense of security.