Got my first IS 300h with 3 worn tyres and a fairly new - please advise

[DBIZO]

Hi,

I'm new to the Club, and new to car ownership in fact. In other words, amateur hour here.

I bought a 15 plate IS 300h Advance in April with 58k on the odo. In part it was sold to me on the strength that it had 'excellent' tread depth, which was one of my main concerns in general when looking at cars. The dealer sent me a video of the car and demonstrated with the front right the excellent condition of the tyre, zooming in on the treads, and just casually showed the rest. When I received the car, I walked around it, looked at the front right (why of course), and saw they presented it in a nice condition - although the body and windows had dozens of small chips and imperfections, I expected that much. 

Because it was a Lexus dealer, Lexus Exeter (Snows), which is generally well-regarded even among Lexus owners, and also because I'm a rookie, it never occurred to me that the other tyres might be old. Which they are, just realised today. Worn, cracks along the grooves. Also, this means that the front axle has mixed tyres with different characteristic due to make and age. Is that even legal, and even if so, up to good standards?

I'll raise this with the dealer but would also like to ask for your input here.

What's my legal position here?

Why would only be 1 tyre replaced? Might this imply something, some issue with the axle?

Now I'm asking myself what else did I miss, and if I should take it to an independent checkup? How much is that roughly?

Thanks for any help,

Daniel

[ColinBarber]

Hi Daniel

This is disappointing to hear, especially from a Lexus dealer. Given that you have specifically asked about thread depth, you were misled. However the timeframe is an issue - you ideally needed to have rejected the car, or asked the dealer to put the issues right within the first few weeks. Now you are going to get accusations about you have worn down the tyres, or they aren't the ones they sold you etc.

Speak to your dealer, if you get no joy then I'd recommend you speak to Citizens Advise - start here:

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/buying-or-repairing-a-car/problems-with-a-used-car/

 

With regards to non-matching tyres, it is legal but not best practice.  A puncture, kerb damage, tyre wear could also be reasons for a single tyre being replaced. As for other issues, I wouldn't worry - the Lexus IS is relatively bullet proof and I assume you have a 12 month Lexus extended warranty with it anyway if you purchased from a dealer?

[DBIZO]

Thank you, Colin! Yes, I realise I simply was not diligent enough, just trusted the 'process', and wanted to enjoy the car. Why I opted for a Lexus dealer to begin with. I thought I was diligent and looked how the car looked and behaved during the first two weeks, but not diligent enough turns out. Lesson learnt.

And yes, I've got the warranty. 

I've done 2 thousand miles in 2 months, mostly motorway, not sure it's possible to run down the tyres already. 

I'll report back how Lexus Exeter reacted. 

 

[ColinBarber]

2 minutes ago, DBIZO said:

not sure it's possible to run down the tyres already.

it isn't, but be prepared for that to be used as an excuse.

[cadman2k]

If the vehicle was sold as a lexus select approved vehicle then I belive that the tyres have to all have over 3mm of tread depth across 75 percent of the tyres for Lexus standards. I would assume this would also apply to a premium used vehicle. 

You should take the car for a check to a tyre depot/ independent garage to have the tread depths measured and a quick report on the general condition of each tyre to ascertain the condition etc. 

 

[ColinBarber]

3 minutes ago, cadman2k said:

If the vehicle was sold as a lexus select approved vehicle then I belive that the tyres have to all have over 3mm of tread depth across 75 percent of the tyres for Lexus standards. I would assume this would also apply to a premium used vehicle. 

Not the case anymore:

 

[cadman2k]

If the used lexus standard is no longer the case then one would assume that any acceptable standards were specific to the "group/franchise" who supplied the car and each one has a different standard on if they would let a car go out with tyres that were extremely close to the legal minimum. I must admit from my past experiences I have always personally checked or asked the question and when I was unhappy got them to sort with what money/markup they had in the car. 

On that note though I am hearing of more and more dealerships who are operating on models of high volume/low margins whereby the money in the car has been halved on what it was a few year ago, that said trying to do that with lexus would have been difficult but some posts on here seem to suggest that the brand is becoming less unique on what it was a few years ago. 

Good luck with the complaint. 

[royoftherovers]

1 minute ago, cadman2k said:

If the used lexus standard is no longer the case then one would assume that any acceptable standards were specific to the "group/franchise" who supplied the car and each one has a different standard on if they would let a car go out with tyres that were extremely close to the legal minimum. I must admit from my past experiences I have always personally checked or asked the question and when I was unhappy got them to sort with what money/markup they had in the car. 

On that note though I am hearing of more and more dealerships who are operating on models of high volume/low margins whereby the money in the car has been halved on what it was a few year ago, that said trying to do that with lexus would have been difficult but some posts on here seem to suggest that the brand is becoming less unique on what it was a few years ago. 

Good luck with the complaint. 

I do not think that you are too wide of the mark here Peter.

Members need to do "due diligence" in so far as they can. Members will have no greater clout then just before concluding a deal. If the member does not receive the service that he is requesting then he should just walk away from the deal.

From what we have been told it appears that Lexus Exeter misrepresented the vehicle in the video and did not present it to the purchaser in a manner that  one would have expected. If this represents a new Lexus attitude then Lexus must accept the consequences. Who would want to buy from Lexus Exeter after this debacle? It may have been a rogue salesman, but it is Lexus Exeter, not Salesman Smith who by now might be selling BMW`s ? I would advise the O.P. to document and formalise his complaint by writing to the Dealer Principal at Lexus Exeter, with a copy to the M.D. of the Snows Group and to keep us all updated with events.

[DBIZO]

Thanks everyone for your weighing in. 

I've got the video from the salesman calling out the excellent tread depth, which should support my case I believe. I recognize I accepted the car upon delivery and it's been 2 months, which is my stupidity, but still my complaint stands. This is not what I was LED to expect.

I'll take the car to a garage for a report on the tyres as a first step, thanks for the suggestion. I'll also upload pics of the tyres for all of us to see the cracked Yokohamas, not just take my word. 

[JamesIS220]

When I bought my 2015 auris Hybrid around 15 months ago, I noticed a little bit of damage on the sidewall with rubber missing on the original Continental tyres and cracking to the sidewall on the front nearside tyre, plus MOT advisory.

Asked if they would fit a new tyre. No, as not an MOT fail as no cords showing, so no advisory issued, by them as MOT was done pre sale. Accepted it and bought car. Didn't get a penny off. Tried to sell me some mats etc but declined and bought off eBay.

I was a cash buyer, so probably no great profit unlike finance deal.

Surprise surprise on them doing the MOT a year later, even though asked prior if I should fit new tyres and no, got advisory for nearside front tyre! Not great as looks like I don't inspect my tyres and looks bad in the MOT history search! 

Have now got them to fit Goodyear efficient grip performance 2's and they are quieter.

Cant really complain as got a free AC condenser under warranty.

James.👍

[royoftherovers]

2 minutes ago, JamesIS220 said:

When I bought my 2015 auris Hybrid around 15 months ago, I noticed a little bit of damage on the sidewall with rubber missing on the original continental tyres and cracking to the sidewall on the front nearside tyre, plus MOT advisory.

Asked if they would fit a new tyre. No, as not an MOT fail as no cords showing, so no advisory issued, by them as MOT was done pre sale. Accepted it and bought car. Didn't get a penny off. Tried to sell me some mats etc but declined and bought off ebay.

I was a cash buyer, so probably no great profit unlike finance deal.

Surprise surprise on them doing the MOT a year later, even though asked prior if I should fit new tyres and no, got advisory for nearside front tyre! Not great as looks like I don't inspect my tyres and looks bad in the MOT history search! 

Have now got them to fit Goodyear efficient grip performance 2's and they are quieter.

Cant really complain as got a free AC condenser under warranty.

James.👍

An important lesson learned though James. Your maximum clout exists just prior to the point of sale.

[JamesIS220]

9 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

An important lesson learned though James. Your maximum clout exists just prior to the point of sale.

It was a flat refusal! But I didn't back out as had already put a £500 deposit down as car brought up from Basingstoke, to Staffordshire, as liked the colour and 27,000 miles. Would of lost half my deposit, if backed out. If buying another would travel and view the car, rather than a deposit. 

Always bought old Volvos and generally always fitted new tyres anyway. Difference is Auris was 13k and 1989 Volvo 240 £350 and current 1996 Volvo 940 £250, so expect to replace budget/ knackered tyres on an old banger. Volvo 940 on Michelin Energy savers. A good tyre.

James.

[royoftherovers]

6 minutes ago, JamesIS220 said:

It was a flat refusal! But I didn't back out as had already put a £500 deposit down as car brought up from Basingstoke, to Staffordshire, as liked the colour and 27,000 miles. Would of lost half my deposit, if backed out. If buying another would travel and view the car, rather than a deposit. 

Always bought old Volvos and generally always fitted new tyres anyway. Difference is Auris was 13k and 1989 Volvo 240 £350 and current 1996 Volvo 940 £250, so expect to replace budget/ knackered tyres on an old banger. Volvo 940 on Michelin Energy savers. A good tyre.

James.

Have we met on the Toyota Forum James ?

[JamesIS220]

5 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

Have we met on the Toyota Forum James ?

I think we have.  👍

[doog442]

Snows again 

You can trace their cunning stunts back to when I joined the forum in 2007..

Another thread on just crap forecourt and sale condition from yet another Lexus dealer. 

[doog442]

1 hour ago, royoftherovers said:

It may have been a rogue salesman, but it is Lexus Exeter, not Salesman Smith who by now might be selling BMW`s ? I would advise the O.P. to document and formalise his complaint by writing to the Dealer Principal at Lexus Exeter, with a copy to the M.D. of the Snows Group and to keep us all updated with events.

He wouldn't get away with it selling BMW's. You simply don't get shoddy cars on BMW forecourts, that's one thing they do correctly. Totally agree about contacting the dealer principal.  

[rayaans]

3 minutes ago, doog442 said:

He wouldn't get away with it selling BMW's. You simply don't get shoddy cars on BMW forecourts, that's one thing they do correctly. Totally agree about contacting the dealer principal.  

That's not entirely true.

There's multiple cars on BMW forecourts with discs under the minimum thickness

It all varies on dealers and groups too. Some dealers don't sell cars with tires less than 6mm - Lexus Chester for example. 

[doog442]

6 minutes ago, rayaans said:

That's not entirely true.

There's multiple cars on BMW forecourts with discs under the minimum thickness

Your post isn't entirely true either. I'm a serial car buyer who visits numerous BMW forecourts and my basic check is running my finger over discs. BMW are without doubt the best in swapping out worn discs and pre inspection...Lexus are the worst.  

[rayaans]

8 minutes ago, doog442 said:

Your post isn't entirely true either. I'm a serial car buyer who visits numerous BMW forecourts and my basic check is running my finger over discs. BMW are without doubt the best in swapping out worn discs and pre inspection...Lexus are the worst.  

My previous post is entirely true. Like I said there are many BMWs with discs under the minimum thickness on the forecourts. Plenty of owners on BMW forums regarding the "standard" of their used cars as well. 

[doog442]

15 minutes ago, rayaans said:

My previous post is entirely true. Like I said Plenty of owners on BMW forums regarding the "standard" of their used cars as well. 

BMW AUC is pretty definite in its tolerances. If its low then its replaced. You will get disc and pad thickness from a BMW dealer, you won't necessarily from Lexus approved, you may as well whistle in that respect. 

In regard to your assertion that 'there are many BMWs with discs under the minimum thickness on the forecourts'....you have absolutely no evidence to back that claim up other than a random google search I guess.

As I said you won't find many lipped discs on a BMW forecourt, or even Mercedes. 

[rayaans]

25 minutes ago, doog442 said:

BMW AUC is pretty definite in its tolerances. If its low then its replaced. You will get disc and pad thickness from a BMW dealer, you won't necessarily from Lexus approved, you may as well whistle in that respect. 

In regard to your assertion that 'there are many BMWs with discs under the minimum thickness on the forecourts'....you have absolutely no evidence to back that claim up other than a random google search I guess.

As I said you won't find many lipped discs on a BMW forecourt, or even Mercedes. 

There's one thing regarding tolerances. Completely different when it's manipulated to go through. 

My nephew is a BMW technician. Let's just say the practices in the workshop aren't exactly stellar. There's a lot of "ahh it'll be alright". And most of the time it is. 

...until a customer buys a rather expensive M5 and turns out the brake discs and pads are worn more than theyre stated to be on the paperwork!

Merc prep is pretty poor. They change pads quite keenly but tyres and discs are a different story 

 

[Las Palmas]

When first joining the forum here I read that Lexus service centres were generally praised to be very good or better. Now it seems that as I am opening my eyes the centres in UK are not better than what I found here.

Car is great and built is fine, service is something not worth writing home about. Maybe Lexus has found that giving extraordinarily good service is not good business and rely on the quality of the cars instead of the quality of the service centres.

[doog442]

1 hour ago, rayaans said:

My nephew is a BMW technician. Let's just say the practices in the workshop aren't exactly stellar. There's a lot of "ahh it'll be alright". And most of the time it is. 

 

That's a coincidence as my nephew is a Lexus technician. However he has never commented on workshop practices. I would find it appalling if he was to admit that him and his team weren't doing 'their job' . However we're not talking workshop practices even though my experience with Lexus has been 'shoddy', we're talking vehicle presentation at the point of sale which is something that anyone on here can see with there own eyes or with an inspection report. The OP is reporting 3 worn tyres and bodywork / windows covered in chips. We had a thread yesterday where someone pulled out due to a Lexus approved vehicle with a badly chipped windscreen that they refused to replace. Our dear Linas purchased a Lexus with no pads left, an RCF two weeks back in Scotland that needed a respray ....the place is littered with stuff like this. 

Also worth noting that my local BMW dealership service high powered police vehicles. They're not perfect and I've pulled them up over a few  minor issues however I'd like to think that it's more than there job's worth to not provide a service that meet a minimum standard. 

[royoftherovers]

10 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

When first joining the forum here I read that Lexus service centres were generally praised to be very good or better. Now it seems that as I am opening my eyes the centres in UK are not better than what I found here.

Car is great and built is fine, service is something not worth writing home about. Maybe Lexus has found that giving extraordinarily good service is not good business and rely on the quality of the cars instead of the quality of the service centres.

I think that it is still generally the case that UK Lexus centres are very good or better. There are however centres that seem to fare less well, based upon feedback from our Members. It is important however, that our Members praise good performance so as to provide some kind of balance. A few rotten apples do tend to corrupt the barrel.

I always advise Members to raise concerns with the Dealer Principal of respective Dealerships, if they cannot find redress from the Sales Staff they re dealing with. What is fundamental to all of the concerns is for matters to have been documented prior to the problem having been identified and therefore when provided with evidence of what was agreed beforehand a Dealer Principal has no option but to apologise and  support the Customer. Only by being provided with irrefutable evidence will high standards be sought and maintained by Dealerships. The spoken word is no longer of value, so for the avoidance of doubt and misunderstanding, customers must document agreements/requests.

[paulrnx]

I had all four tyres ‘replaced’ on an approved used Jaguar XE after two months of ownership. I asked the dealership to replace them, they refused, I replaced all four tyres at my own expense (badly cracking and I didn’t want to take the risk), I wrote to the Head Office of that dealership group, dealership then got back to me and agreed to pay me what I had paid for the tyres and arranged a bank transfer. Cost them more than if they’d have agreed to do it themselves because they paid me what I’d paid retail. It took a while but you just need to be firm, be polite, be consistent and make it clear that you want the dealership to replace or reimburse you.

The dealer principal is the first port of call after the sales person refuses but I had been told by the dealership that the dealer principal had refused my replacement so I went straight to their Head Office. If they’d have still refused I’d have gone down the small claims route. I had enough evidence to show the tyres needed to be replaced - another Jaguar dealership had condemned the tyres and I’d received a quote for replacement tyres and why they needed replacing. The poor condition of my tyres could not have been caused by me in such a relatively short time and mileage.

Get the car checked out somewhere else, get confirmation the tyres need replacing by way of a quote/ report and then put it all in writing to the dealer principal first and then to their head office if no joy.

Hope you get a decent outcome here 👍

As an aside. And we’re seeing this a lot as more and more people buy without viewing. Always email the dealership and ask some specific questions that you want answering.

1. Are all tyres of the same make and model.

2. What are the tread depths of all tyres.

3. Are there any stone chips, scuffs, scratches or any other damage to the car.

4. Is there any damage to any interior or any scuffs, marks, scratches etc.

5. Is there any damage to any of the alloy wheels.

6. Ask to see full evidence of the service history. Dates, mileage and location of each service. Compare this to the manufacturers’ recommended schedule. I have seen so many cars advertised as having full service history when they clearly haven’t.

If you don’t get the answers you want or something doesn’t feel quite right or the condition isn’t what you want then just walk away. There are so many other cars out there to choose from. If a sales person doesn’t reply to emails asking about the condition of the car then this is a big red flag to me.

I bought remotely from Lexus Tunbridge Wells. I had answers in an email and the video they sent me showed all four tyre makes (the same) and tread depth. They pointed out two areas of bodywork that needed slight attention and confirmed that they would touch them in. They confirmed that there was no other bodywork or interior damage. When I collected they showed me the two areas which had been touched in and I was pleased with the results. The car was exactly as described. A good experience all round and I was treated well and the dealership was honest with me. I knew I was buying a used car and so I didn’t expect the car to be in the same condition as a brand new car straight out of the factory. If I ever turned up to collect a car and it was not in the condition described, I’d walk away every single time without fail. Or I would negotiate a different price to allow me to put it right at my expense. Having said this, I’d always wonder what else the dealership may have covered up or been less than honest about. I still buy from people and if people are dishonest with me or can’t be arsed to reply or dodge the questions, I walk away.

I’m not trying to be clever here. I didn’t always do this and I got burned a bit in my younger days so there is more than a little bit of pain and experience in the above!