Lexus Relax (10 year/100,000 mile warranty)

[royoftherovers]

2 hours ago, 08ISF said:

I agree  with Linas.P that from a business perspective it is brilliant as it will generate a lot of business for their dealers who must be feeling the effects of Covid lockdowns. However, it will be  a short lived benefit, because all the owners who wouldn't normally go to Lexus will be attracted by the "free" warranty. They will soon find out that all is not as it seems and then when they find out how much all the things that the dealers will find wrong  that are not covered will cost them , then they will desert in droves. One of the  primary drivers for me with Lexus and their old warranty is the fact that if it isn't a service item and you haven't broken it by carelessness, it's covered , so go off and fix it. All dealers  will be under pressure from their masters to recover profits lost over the last 18 months so anybody who goes to Lexus with high expectations will be disappointed if not thoroughly rinsed. These cars don't go wrong often but when they do.......

Lexus already try it on at every service ,  your air con needs regassing, your tyres  have some small cracks in the tread, we can replace them for 50% above high street prices, your tyres are wearing funny ( they weren't) you need a four wheel alignment. Fortunately I'm a mechanical engineer so I can sort out the BS from what's real but not everyone will have that background.

As I said earlier there is no apparent financing for this warranty,so  the costs are going to be met from ripping off the unwary.

As you can guess, I am very disappointed with Lexus over this. I thought I had found a manufacturer that I could have  a  long term relationship with (12 years and 4 cars to date) . This may not be so. My old warranty doesn't run out for 9 months or so. I will review my reationship with Lexus at that point when I can see how this is all panning out.

I`ve just picked this up from a M.B. website, It is about practices at Inchcape which has a franchise for both M.B. and VW. We are all advised to be very alert!

"Mine (MB )correctly pointed out the rears were on their last legs - I knew it and had already checked how much they'd cost. Service Advisor insisted they'd be competitive and asked if they could give me a price, so I said 'sure'.

He came back and the price was there or thereabouts what I'd had. I was about to say go ahead, and in very much an afterthought I said "this is for both, isn't it?" "Oh no", he said "that's each"!


Bearing in mind they're an Inchcape dealer they've never been too bad. Same group owns the local VW dealers and I've had calls from them, including one just a few weeks ago on wife's Tiguan, saying tyres are worn close to the European Legal Limit of 3mm. There''s no such thing! And the tyres are near as dammit 5mm!! "

[Shahpor]

2 hours ago, wharfhouse said:

Yep, once I have had the last (minor) service in my current Essential Care plan (which will probably be around November - same time as my Extended Warranty expires) I will be asking Lexus Reading what they will be offering me if they want me to keep having the car serviced with them. 

Last time I asked, the service manager told me that the Jemca dealers (Reading, Sidcup, Edgware Road) are going to start offering their own version of the value servicing at some point.

[wharfhouse]

21 minutes ago, Shahpor said:

Last time I asked, the service manager told me that the Jemca dealers (Reading, Sidcup, Edgware Road) are going to start offering their own version of the value servicing at some point.

That will be interesting - and may go some way towards alleviating my annoyances with these changes. Could be that dealers are able to create their own servicing pricelist for once cars are beyond the scope of Relax, which would be sensible rather than asking someone to pay full price for a service with no warranty benefit (there is no free lunch, the warranty costs will be built into the service costs!). I have been happy with Lexus Reading to date and they have been fair about not undertaking unnecessary work and also sorting out the warranty claims I have made so would like to keep having the car serviced there beyond the 100k miles so long as the price reflects the lack of included warranty.

[wharfhouse]

37 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

I`ve just picked this up from a M.B. website, It is about practices at Inchcape which has a franchise for both M.B. and VW. We are all advised to be very alert!

"Mine (MB )correctly pointed out the rears were on their last legs - I knew it and had already checked how much they'd cost. Service Advisor insisted they'd be competitive and asked if they could give me a price, so I said 'sure'.

He came back and the price was there or thereabouts what I'd had. I was about to say go ahead, and in very much an afterthought I said "this is for both, isn't it?" "Oh no", he said "that's each"!


Bearing in mind they're an Inchcape dealer they've never been too bad. Same group owns the local VW dealers and I've had calls from them, including one just a few weeks ago on wife's Tiguan, saying tyres are worn close to the European Legal Limit of 3mm. There''s no such thing! And the tyres are near as dammit 5mm!! "

Whenever I've needed new tyres I have asked Lexus to quote and much to my surprise they have always been cheaper than I could get tyres fitted at any of the local tyres places... Not had any bull about tread depths, but then I've generally asked them to change the tyres at around 3mm.

[royoftherovers]

10 minutes ago, wharfhouse said:

Whenever I've needed new tyres I have asked Lexus to quote and much to my surprise they have always been cheaper than I could get tyres fitted at any of the local tyres places... Not had any bull about tread depths, but then I've generally asked them to change the tyres at around 3mm.

Funnily enough Phil, Lexus sourced and fitted my Khumo All Seasons for the same price as I could obtain anywhere. I firmly believe that to establish and maintain good relationships with one`s Lexus Dealer is key to receiving good service. 

[Shahpor]

1 hour ago, wharfhouse said:

Whenever I've needed new tyres I have asked Lexus to quote and much to my surprise they have always been cheaper than I could get tyres fitted at any of the local tyres places... Not had any bull about tread depths, but then I've generally asked them to change the tyres at around 3mm.

I have bought all of the tyres for my GS for Lexus Reading as they are are very competitive on price.  They told me they would even price match if I found them cheaper elsewhere.

Do you deal with Alex, Paul or Michael when you are there?  Michael is my primary contact when I go there and he has always been very helpful.

[wharfhouse]

7 minutes ago, Shahpor said:

I have bought all of the tyres for my GS for Lexus Reading as they are are very competitive on price.  They told me they would even price match if I found them cheaper elsewhere.

Do you deal with Alex, Paul or Michael when you are there?  Michael is my primary contact when I go there and he has always been very helpful.

I think at one time or another over the past 4+ years I've spoken to all of them -all have been helpful. 

[Pielight]

I have a 2017 GSF which is in the middle of a two year extended warranty. It was serviced a week ago so now has Lexus Relax protection too. 
A refund of the EW is readily available. I’ve also been closely comparing the two options, here is my take so far:

The main things that jump straight out that you seem to lose with Relax are shock absorbers, Multimedia, exhaust cat converter, some Rubber components and lights. So looking at these individually:

Shock Absorbers: although they are shown as Included with EW it is by no means cut and dry. I’ve read on other forums that leaking shocks are sometimes rejected as being wear and tear. The trends seem to suggest it to be mileage dependent as to whether it is accepted as a defect. I enquired via comments on Lexus ‘mag’ site, if the electrical elements of adaptive shocks are covered by Relax….response from Lexus is that they are. So with higher mileage vehicles there is a fair chance that even with the EW, leaking shocks aren’t covered.

Multimedia: who knows what that includes as there is no definition. The screen itself is used for the setting of many of the cars functions. For example, on the GSF certain heating/air con controls can only be accessed using the screen and there are additional trip computer functions accessed by it. Numerous other settings for clock, parking brake, speedo units, centra locking, etc, etc are controlled using the screen. I’ve no clue how screen failure would be considered.

Exhaust: a lot more straightforward….only corrosion damage is excluded with the EW vs everything excluded with Relax. The cat converter is the most likely failure that would be covered by the EW but excluded by Relax…and they are not cheap, but don’t fail that often in my own experience.

Rubber components….the main thing to note here is that most, if not all, of the critical rubber components are covered, i.e. engine, transmission and driveline seals and gaskets. The the exclusions state that rubber boots aren’t covered but those appertaining  to the driveline list are shown to be in the parts included list. Driveline boots tend to be the most difficult to replace so it would seem that this isn’t a major omission. Rubber hose exclusion is still significant but replacement cost probably not catastrophic. Even with the EW there is potential for the wear and tear card to be played on older higher mileage vehicle.

Lights: these are a huge cost on the GSF (triple digits sums for one) and I guess it is the same for other models. These are specifically excluded with Relax (although adjuster motors are included. I’ve read a few cases on a number of forums where cracks have appeared in lights, but claims have been rejected on the basis of the bonnet must have been slammed to hard or has been sat upon.

With relax you still get cover if your car is 9 years 364 days old with 99,999 miles on the day of the service, effectively maintaining cover for 11 years and 110, 000 mile.

So I’m torn between, get refund and put money towards repair and do same for each subsequent year or maintain the EW till it runs out. Car is just 4 yrs old and 28k so obviously not at very high risk of developing a fault.

Upon visiting the Lexus website, it seems to imply that the EW is still available, but it isn’t very clear. I do think that the EW is compromised by the wear and tear clause which has huge scope for interpretation, so potentially the benefits over Relax may, in practice,turn out not to be quite as much as expected (lower mileage limitation aside).

 

 

 

[Phil xxkr]

19 minutes ago, Pielight said:

I have a 2017 GSF which is in the middle of a two year extended warranty. It was serviced a week ago so now has Lexus Relax protection too. 
A refund of the EW is readily available. I’ve also been closely comparing the two options, here is my take so far:

The main things that jump straight out that you seem to lose with Relax are shock absorbers, Multimedia, exhaust cat converter, some Rubber components and lights. So looking at these individually:

Shock Absorbers: although they are shown as Included with EW it is by no means cut and dry. I’ve read on other forums that leaking shocks are sometimes rejected as being wear and tear. The trends seem to suggest it to be mileage dependent as to whether it is accepted as a defect. I enquired via comments on Lexus ‘mag’ site, if the electrical elements of adaptive shocks are covered by Relax….response from Lexus is that they are. So with higher mileage vehicles there is a fair chance that even with the EW, leaking shocks aren’t covered.

Multimedia: who knows what that includes as there is no definition. The screen itself is used for the setting of many of the cars functions. For example, on the GSF certain heating/air con controls can only be accessed using the screen and there are additional trip computer functions accessed by it. Numerous other settings for clock, parking brake, speedo units, centra locking, etc, etc are controlled using the screen. I’ve no clue how screen failure would be considered.

Exhaust: a lot more straightforward….only corrosion damage is excluded with the EW vs everything excluded with Relax. The cat converter is the most likely failure that would be covered by the EW but excluded by Relax…and they are not cheap, but don’t fail that often in my own experience.

Rubber components….the main thing to note here is that most, if not all, of the critical rubber components are covered, i.e. engine, transmission and driveline seals and gaskets. The the exclusions state that rubber boots aren’t covered but those appertaining  to the driveline list are shown to be in the parts included list. Driveline boots tend to be the most difficult to replace so it would seem that this isn’t a major omission. Rubber hose exclusion is still significant but replacement cost probably not catastrophic. Even with the EW there is potential for the wear and tear card to be played on older higher mileage vehicle.

Lights: these are a huge cost on the GSF (triple digits sums for one) and I guess it is the same for other models. These are specifically excluded with Relax (although adjuster motors are included. I’ve read a few cases on a number of forums where cracks have appeared in lights, but claims have been rejected on the basis of the bonnet must have been slammed to hard or has been sat upon.

With relax you still get cover if your car is 9 years 364 days old with 99,999 miles on the day of the service, effectively maintaining cover for 11 years and 110, 000 mile.

So I’m torn between, get refund and put money towards repair and do same for each subsequent year or maintain the EW till it runs out. Car is just 4 yrs old and 28k so obviously not at very high risk of developing a fault.

Upon visiting the Lexus website, it seems to imply that the EW is still available, but it isn’t very clear. I do think that the EW is compromised by the wear and tear clause which has huge scope for interpretation, so potentially the benefits over Relax may, in practice,turn out not to be quite as much as expected (lower mileage limitation aside).

 

 

 

Excellent insights Paul and I for one would be very miffed if shocks not included with EW as I have 2 and 1/2 years to go on my EW. 

[Pielight]

10 minutes ago, Phil xxkr said:

Excellent insights Paul and I for one would be very miffed if shocks not included with EW as I have 2 and 1/2 years to go on my EW. 

It’s worth making enquiries Phil…if they say they wouldn’t  cover shocks because of wear and tear on your car, it could well be worth getting refund (after your next service) to put towards replacement of these and for other faults. I was surprised to be offer exactly 50% refund with 50% time left, so it is genuinely pro rata.

Roadside assist is £125 for my car by the way, so you need to factor that into your decision.

[Phil xxkr]

1 hour ago, Pielight said:

It’s worth making enquiries Phil…if they say they wouldn’t  cover shocks because of wear and tear on your car, it could well be worth getting refund (after your next service) to put towards replacement of these and for other faults. I was surprised to be offer exactly 50% refund with 50% time left, so it is genuinely pro rata.

Roadside assist is £125 for my car by the way, so you need to factor that into your decision

I get breakdown via my nationwide account, but I am also on 85k so interesting balancing act to be thought through, thanks 👍

[royoftherovers]

1 hour ago, Phil xxkr said:

I get breakdown via my nationwide account, but I am also on 85k so interesting balancing act to be thought through, thanks 👍

No thinking necessary Phil old chap.

[08ISF]

As far as I'm concerned , as I've said before, this Relax "warranty" sounds suspiciously like a sham, designed to get a load more customers in to be rinsed by the dealers. The old extended warranty was pretty straightforward, they told you what wasn't covered i.e consumables, and everything else was. This Relax warranty contains,  in the T's and C's, lots of what I call weasel  words and clauses  such as "including but not limited to" when talking about exclusions. The issue about ICE is worrying because the ICE and sat nav and trip computer are all part of the same integrated system. If something fails I bet they decide it was the bit that wasn't covered, and these systems cost megabucks to put right.

The other thing that makes me suspicious is the alleged free status. We used to pay £7-800 for 2 years, not including breakdown cover. Are they going to finance this warranty by racking up the service prices by £3-400 a time. I think not.

So if there  is little  apparent financing and lots of escape clauses in the T's and C's what to do we think is going to happen when a claim is made?

I might be cynical but I've been driving for nearly 50 years and I'm well used to the motor trade's attempts to gouge customers.

I am really, really disappointed with Toyota/ Lexus over this. I like my RX and I would hate to have to change because the costs of running it become unmanageable. The old warranty gave a degree of confidence in return for a budgetable payment.

We'll see what happens as Relax starts to operate in practice and I hope I am wrong.

[Phil xxkr]

14 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

No thinking necessary Phil old chap.

How so John? It's highly unlikely that I shall pass 100k before my current EW/Service plan package expires (March 24)but it will exceed the 10 year rule so Relax is void. So my EW for 23/24 which I paid for? End of missive, I have just answered my own question 🙋

[paulrnx]

The first time I have a repair not covered by My Relax warranty but which would have been covered under the Extended Warranty may well  be the point in time where I leave the Lexus fold. Time will tell. On balance I’m happy with not paying for an Extended Warranty on a vehicle that, touch wood, barely ever goes wrong. This happiness will be severely tested if I have a hefty repair bill to be paid.

I have paid for the Lexus breakdown cover. I did a comparison across the AA, RAC and Green Flag and found the Lexus £125 cover to be very competitive. Even with £85 of Tesco vouchers to put against the RAC cover. I was shocked to see that the standard RAC cover was for a maximum 10 mile tow/recovery. Selecting a better recovery option and joint cover pushed the cost to pay over the vouchers to above the £125.

[royoftherovers]

22 minutes ago, paulrnx said:

The first time I have a repair not covered by My Relax warranty but which would have been covered under the Extended Warranty may well  be the point in time where I leave the Lexus fold. Time will tell. On balance I’m happy with not paying for an Extended Warranty on a vehicle that, touch wood, barely ever goes wrong. This happiness will be severely tested if I have a hefty repair bill to be paid.

I have paid for the Lexus breakdown cover. I did a comparison across the AA, RAC and Green Flag and found the Lexus £125 cover to be very competitive. Even with £85 of Tesco vouchers to put against the RAC cover. I was shocked to see that the standard RAC cover was for a maximum 10 mile tow/recovery. Selecting a better recovery option and joint cover pushed the cost to pay over the vouchers to above the £125.

Paul-your first sentence leads me to ask "why would you expect a free warranty to provide the same coverage as provided by the one for which you paid" ?

Much has been written on this Forum over the past 6 weeks about  the Relax v the Extended Warranty and you do not seem to be aware of it.

[paulrnx]

48 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

Paul-your first sentence leads me to ask "why would you expect a free warranty to provide the same coverage as provided by the one for which you paid" ?

Much has been written on this Forum over the past 6 weeks about  the Relax v the Extended Warranty and you do not seem to be aware of it.

Because I can’t buy the extended warranty I have to settle for the Relax warranty. Even though I was questioning buying the EW I would have done for peace of mind. Yes it’s free but it’s much less peace of mind. I cannot help thinking that Lexus have just looked at their EW claims history and created a new Relax warranty that excludes all items with a high claim history - shocks, cat, media, etc. Thereby creating a free warranty that in the real world may not be much use to owners given they are not, in my opinion, covering items most likely to fail. Factoring in that the EW included a very good breakdown cover package, which now costs £250 for two years, it means the EW really only cost £545 for two years or just over £270 per year. That is or was extremely good value for a warranty that was as good as it was. Yes Relax is free but it provides much less cover and therefore much less peace of mind. I’m happy with it but as I said I may well be much less happy if I have a failure that Relax doesn’t cover but which the EW product would have done. Imagine a media unit failure with no goodwill gesture from Lexus. That would be hard to take. Then again these are reliable cars so why worry?

[royoftherovers]

Thanks Paul.

Only the experience of Members will tell us how good or bad the Relax Warranty is. My reading of the T&C of the Relax Warranty leads me to the phrase "defects attributable to manufacturing or assembly" which in my view will be near impossible to determine.

There has been some mention by some Members of the introduction(possibly on a Dealer by Dealer basis) of a new Lexus Extended Warranty much like the one just withdrawn, covering vehicles up to 15 years old and up to 150,000 miles. Sadly, no official announcement has been issued yet, so far as I am aware. 

[Linas.P]

3 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

There has been some mention by some Members of the introduction(possibly on a Dealer by Dealer basis) of a new Lexus Extended Warranty much like the one just withdrawn, covering vehicles up to 15 years old and up to 150,000 miles. Sadly, no official announcement has been issued yet, so far as I am aware. 

That would be amazing news... because to be fair most Lexus'es have no issue getting to 10years/100k miles, so Lexus Relax isn't that beneficial (I guess that is why Lexus don't mind offering it for free). The only time I would really consider warranty is on older Lexus past 10 years and 100k miles, because even being as reliable as they are - mileage and age still does it's thing, so having warranty even if you have to pay extra for it would be very good thing.

[Pielight]

“Multimedia” is excluded with Relax. In addition to the owners manual, there is a “Navigation and Multimedia System Owner’s Manual” for my current and last car (so I imagine the same for all models).

I wonder if that is a basis to argue that at least the satnav is a separate function to multimedia as alluded to by the title of the handbook?

[ColinBarber]

11 minutes ago, Pielight said:

“Multimedia” is excluded with Relax. In addition to the owners manual, there is a “Navigation and Multimedia System Owner’s Manual” for my current and last car (so I imagine the same for all models).

I wonder if that is a basis to argue that at least the satnav is a separate function to multimedia as alluded to by the title of the handbook?

Wishful thinking 😉

The T&Cs state what is included - satnav is not part of that:

 

Also Lexus' definition of Multimedia appears to be:

Lexus Multimedia Device including navigation instructions, Bluetooth connectivity and smartphone integration with apple CarPlay® and Android Auto®

https://www.lexus.co.uk/owners/about-my-lexus/multimedia/#hero

 

[Linas.P]

25 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

Wishful thinking 😉

The T&Cs state what is included - satnav is not part of that:

 

Also Lexus' definition of Multimedia appears to be:

Lexus Multimedia Device including navigation instructions, bluetooth connectivity and smartphone integration with Apple CarPlay® and Android Auto®

https://www.lexus.co.uk/owners/about-my-lexus/multimedia/#hero

That is kind of unfortunate, because Multimedia and Sat-Nav faults are as well most likely to be caused by manufacturing defects i.e. it is not out in the open and generally is not abused that much.

Seems that logic to exclude this is firmly based not on mode of failure, but simply because it is generally expensive part to replace. 

I mean again - Lexus Relax is master stroke when it comes to deception... how to make something worse to sound like it is actually better.

[Spottedlaurel]

45 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

The T&Cs state what is included - satnav is not part of that:

 

What about the power tailgate motor/board on hatchback/estate models? That appears to have been an issue with RX models last winter.

[royoftherovers]

What the definition of multi media system is made clear by looking at same on the Lexus.co.uk. website.

Fear not tho` because the initial 3 year warranty provided by Lexus will cover the system for 3 years and U.K. Statute provides effectively a further 3 years warranty under Sale of Goods Act and all subsequent amending legislation.

So, if owners are bold enough to confront the Seller of the vehicle (say, the Lexus Dealership) and threaten/remind them of their responsibilities, they should be successful.

A threat of having the multi media system repaired elsewhere and the Dealer being presented with the cost of repair and pursued thru` the Small Claims track of the County Court, should they not reimburse the owner, may produce startling results.

I fear however that today`s young owners may change their Lexus vehicles after 3years and not suffer any problem throughout that period.

It is the second and subsequent owners who may face difficulties altho` help is on hand as they can fall back on the current 6 month Statutory Warranty for assistance.

[08ISF]

31 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

I mean again - Lexus Relax is master stroke when it comes to deception... how to make something worse to sound like it is actually better.

I'd say it's more than a master stroke, it's verging on misrepresentation. Has anybody seen it written down anywhere in Lexus advertising that Relax is equivalent to the manufacturers warranty? i.e anything the ASA can punish them for?