Lexus Relax (10 year/100,000 mile warranty)

NemesisUK · August 9, 2021

7 minutes ago, 08ISF said:

I'd say it's more than a master stroke, it's verging on misrepresentation. Has anybody seen it written down anywhere in Lexus advertising that Relax is equivalent to the manufacturers warranty? i.e anything the ASA can punish them for?

Every advert for Relax has always included the legal phrase T&Cs apply.

royoftherovers · August 9, 2021

Just now, NemesisUK said:

Every advert for Relax has always included the legal phrase T&Cs apply.

I concur.

royoftherovers · August 9, 2021

Graham, to the best of my knowledge and belief, Lexus U.K. has not made any such claim.

Anecdotally, these people have;

the Lexus Salesman

the Receptionist

the man on the Service desk, etc.

Nemesis is quite right to mention T&C always appearing in formal Lexus announcements re Relax.

None of us will know how good the new warranty is until we have had experience of it.

We (those of us who currently participate in the current Lexus Extended Warranty Scheme), do know that Relax is not as good. The proof of the pudding is in the eating and we shall just have to taste the Relax warranty and see.

There is no evidence that Lexus U.K. has claimed that Relax is anything other than a benefit available to certain Lexus owners for a certain period of time and miles and is free of charge.

Linas.P · August 9, 2021

33 minutes ago, 08ISF said:

I'd say it's more than a master stroke, it's verging on misrepresentation. Has anybody seen it written down anywhere in Lexus advertising that Relax is equivalent to the manufacturers warranty? i.e anything the ASA can punish them for?

I haven't seen it written down, but over the phone they always claim it. To the point that I think either that is the briefing Lexus own staff was given or they are complicit in miss-advertising it.

I have challenged 3 different Lexus representatives and they all stated that now manufacturer warranty is extended for up-to 10years/100k miles, as long as car is serviced with Lexus. When I said - "well it does not cover same parts as extended/manufacturer warranty" they have insisted it does. There is third option - they are ignorant and miss-informed, which wont surprise me either.

To answer you questions - I doubt there is case against Lexus GB who is behind it, but individual Lexus dealerships are playing dangerous game either by being complicit or by being misinformed, or both. Voice recording would still count against them, but it would require making a precedent out of it and taking all the way to court.

ColinBarber · August 9, 2021

1 hour ago, royoftherovers said:

Graham, to the best of my knowledge and belief, Lexus U.K. has not made any such claim.

They certainly have - this is from the press release that went to all the motoring press:

Quote

The Relax warranty covers the same parts and labour as the three-year manufacturer’s warranty provided on new Lexus vehicles and the one-year manufacturer’s warranty that’s standard with approved used vehicles. It does not include wear and tear items, bodywork, paint, interior trims and maintenance parts. A vehicle health check is part of the service package, which includes all mechanical and electronic parts, which helps potential problems to be detected at an early stage. Any existing defects present at the time of service are excluded from the warranty.

royoftherovers · August 9, 2021

1 minute ago, ColinBarber said:

They certainly have - this is from the press release that went to all the motoring press:

Thanks Colin. I do stand corrected.

ColinBarber · August 9, 2021

2 hours ago, Spottedlaurel said:

What about the power tailgate motor/board on hatchback/estate models? That appears to have been an issue with RX models last winter.

I'd expect to see that in the body section but it's not there either (probably a mistake as I'm sure it should be covered):

paulrnx · August 9, 2021

My dealership told me that the Relax warranty was identical to the extended warranty apart from not covering the media unit which was explained to be satnav as well. And yet it’s not identical, nowhere near.

royoftherovers · August 9, 2021

39 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

They certainly have - this is from the press release that went to all the motoring press:

Colin, unless I am mistaken what you have shown me was on a restricted circulation list and has not appeared in a public, so to speak, announcement? Thanks.

ColinBarber · August 9, 2021

8 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

Colin, unless I am mistaken what you have shown me was on a restricted circulation list and has not appeared in a public, so to speak, announcement? Thanks.

No, publicly accessible.

https://media.lexus.co.uk/lexus-offers-customers-unprecedented-warranty-cover-with-new-relax-programme/

Pielight · August 10, 2021

7 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

Wishful thinking 😉

Yes...Forever the optimist! 😁

Pielight · August 10, 2021

3 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

No, publicly accessible.

https://media.lexus.co.uk/lexus-offers-customers-unprecedented-warranty-cover-with-new-relax-programme/

Yes, I'd read this myself after googling relax when looking into. I would think you'd have a pretty powerful argument in a dispute if armed with this?

Andy B · August 10, 2021

12 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

No, publicly accessible.

https://media.lexus.co.uk/lexus-offers-customers-unprecedented-warranty-cover-with-new-relax-programme/

Lexus used pretty much the same wording in a recent edition of their (public-facing) online magazine:-

https://mag.lexus.co.uk/lexus-warranty-how-lexus-relax-cover-works/

[scroll down to the section entitled "What is and isn’t covered by Lexus Relax?"]

They do however include a link to their T&Cs. It's only when reading these T&Cs that the actual differences can be seen.

Phil xxkr · August 10, 2021

1 hour ago, Andy B said:

Lexus used pretty much the same wording in a recent edition of their (public-facing) online magazine:-

https://mag.lexus.co.uk/lexus-warranty-how-lexus-relax-cover-works/

[scroll down to the section entitled "What is and isn’t covered by Lexus Relax?"]

They do however include a link to their T&Cs. It's only when reading these T&Cs that the actual differences can be seen.

I thought this an interesting response from Toyota 🤔

Hi. This is an excellent bit of aftercare and will be a factor influencing potential buyers in making the decision to go with a Lexus vehicle.

I currently have a GSF with a Lexus extended warranty (just over a year remaining). It is booked in for a service next week and have been told that I should be able to cancel the remaining year of the extended warranty and be given a refund. I will of course need to separately take out road side assistance which was included as part of the extended warranty.

I have been looking at the T&Cs to ensure that Lexus Relax gives the same cover against defects as the extended warranty, but this is pretty difficult as relax gives an exhaustive list of what is covered whereas the extended warranty only states what is excluded. As I read it the extended warranty appears to be more comprehensive, e.g. the exclusion of rubber components by Lexus Relax does not apply to the extended warranty. For example, the GSF has sophisticated electronically controlled suspension/shock absorbers and a defect with these would not appear to be covered by Relax whereas they would with the extended warranty. It is also not clear whether the electrical elements of those components is covered by Relax?

Could you please advise whether my interpretation is correct and if possible give a summary of differences. It would be really useful to have a matrix on the website, showing all the differences between the two warranties. As it is, I don’t feel fully confident that I would be quite as well covered if I cancel my extended warranty. Thank in advance, Paul

Reply

Toyota UKsays:

29 July 2021 at 9:52 am

Hi Paul,

Thanks for getting in touch. We are waiting on information from our warranty team, but we can answer certain parts of your query now.

Rubber components within the suspension – these are classed as wear and tear items in the Relax warranty, so aren’t covered.
Electrical elements within the suspension – these are covered under the Relax warranty, if the issue develops as a result of a manufacturing defect.

In terms of the other differences between the two, we’ll have to get back to you, but we don’t expect there to be many.

Thanks

So as of 11 days ago even Toyota don't have an answer? As I recall mentioning at the outset Warranty is now being handled by a global US multinational and at a local implementation level (UK) will have little say over what's in or what's out. Fraught conversations ahead I guess 🤔

Phil xxkr · August 10, 2021

1 minute ago, Phil xxkr said:

I thought this an interesting response from Toyota 🤔

Hi. This is an excellent bit of aftercare and will be a factor influencing potential buyers in making the decision to go with a Lexus vehicle.

I currently have a GSF with a Lexus extended warranty (just over a year remaining). It is booked in for a service next week and have been told that I should be able to cancel the remaining year of the extended warranty and be given a refund. I will of course need to separately take out road side assistance which was included as part of the extended warranty.

I have been looking at the T&Cs to ensure that Lexus Relax gives the same cover against defects as the extended warranty, but this is pretty difficult as relax gives an exhaustive list of what is covered whereas the extended warranty only states what is excluded. As I read it the extended warranty appears to be more comprehensive, e.g. the exclusion of rubber components by Lexus Relax does not apply to the extended warranty. For example, the GSF has sophisticated electronically controlled suspension/shock absorbers and a defect with these would not appear to be covered by Relax whereas they would with the extended warranty. It is also not clear whether the electrical elements of those components is covered by Relax?

Could you please advise whether my interpretation is correct and if possible give a summary of differences. It would be really useful to have a matrix on the website, showing all the differences between the two warranties. As it is, I don’t feel fully confident that I would be quite as well covered if I cancel my extended warranty. Thank in advance, Paul

Reply

Toyota UKsays:

29 July 2021 at 9:52 am

Hi Paul,

Thanks for getting in touch. We are waiting on information from our warranty team, but we can answer certain parts of your query now.

Rubber components within the suspension – these are classed as wear and tear items in the Relax warranty, so aren’t covered.
Electrical elements within the suspension – these are covered under the Relax warranty, if the issue develops as a result of a manufacturing defect.

In terms of the other differences between the two, we’ll have to get back to you, but we don’t expect there to be many.

Thanks

So as of 11 days ago even Toyota don't have an answer? As I recall mentioning at the outset Warranty is now being handled by a global US multinational and at a local implementation level (UK) will have little say over what's in or what's out. Fraught conversations ahead I guess 🤔

Forgot to say this content was from Andy B link

Linas.P · August 10, 2021

41 minutes ago, Phil xxkr said:

So as of 11 days ago even Toyota don't have an answer? As I recall mentioning at the outset Warranty is now being handled by a global US multinational and at a local implementation level (UK) will have little say over what's in or what's out. Fraught conversations ahead I guess 🤔

To be fair, this isn't really telling. The problem is that "Lexus Relax" is Lexus policy obviously and Toyota representative may not be the best person to answer it.

One thing which I found slightly worrying the the use of phrase "if the issue develops as a result of a manufacturing defect". Who is to say if after 60k miles it developed to to wear and tear, accidental damage or manufacturing defect... and who is to check that decision is correct. The answer is - Lexus themselves and I can see quite obvious conflict of interest.

So we going from approach of:

- something is not working, but should be working, check if there is any obvious external damage and if not then replace for free. Which is easy to define, because as long as there isn't clear external damage it is covered.

To approach of:

- something is not working - prove if it is not working due to manufacturing defect and replace for free if it is covered in T&Cs. Which is nearly impossible without good will of Lexus, because it is only Lexus themselves who can determine it and even then just maybe.

Pielight · August 10, 2021

1 hour ago, Phil xxkr said:

I thought this an interesting response from Toyota 🤔

Hi. This is an excellent bit of aftercare and will be a factor influencing potential buyers in making the decision to go with a Lexus vehicle.

I currently have a GSF with a Lexus extended warranty (just over a year remaining). It is booked in for a service next week and have been told that I should be able to cancel the remaining year of the extended warranty and be given a refund. I will of course need to separately take out road side assistance which was included as part of the extended warranty.

I have been looking at the T&Cs to ensure that Lexus Relax gives the same cover against defects as the extended warranty, but this is pretty difficult as relax gives an exhaustive list of what is covered whereas the extended warranty only states what is excluded. As I read it the extended warranty appears to be more comprehensive, e.g. the exclusion of rubber components by Lexus Relax does not apply to the extended warranty. For example, the GSF has sophisticated electronically controlled suspension/shock absorbers and a defect with these would not appear to be covered by Relax whereas they would with the extended warranty. It is also not clear whether the electrical elements of those components is covered by Relax?

Could you please advise whether my interpretation is correct and if possible give a summary of differences. It would be really useful to have a matrix on the website, showing all the differences between the two warranties. As it is, I don’t feel fully confident that I would be quite as well covered if I cancel my extended warranty. Thank in advance, Paul

Reply

Toyota UKsays:

29 July 2021 at 9:52 am

Hi Paul,

Thanks for getting in touch. We are waiting on information from our warranty team, but we can answer certain parts of your query now.

Rubber components within the suspension – these are classed as wear and tear items in the Relax warranty, so aren’t covered.
Electrical elements within the suspension – these are covered under the Relax warranty, if the issue develops as a result of a manufacturing defect.

In terms of the other differences between the two, we’ll have to get back to you, but we don’t expect there to be many.

Thanks

So as of 11 days ago even Toyota don't have an answer? As I recall mentioning at the outset Warranty is now being handled by a global US multinational and at a local implementation level (UK) will have little say over what's in or what's out. Fraught conversations ahead I guess 🤔

That's very timely Phil...that was my post on Lexus.mag and I was going to upload it on here for everyone's awareness. What you can't see on the site yet is my follow up response which is still "awaiting moderation." This is obviously much more difficult for them to answer, judgingby time taking to respond. I've attached a screen shot.

wharfhouse · August 10, 2021

3 hours ago, Linas.P said:

To be fair, this isn't really telling. The problem is that "Lexus Relax" is Lexus policy obviously and Toyota representative may not be the best person to answer it.

One thing which I found slightly worrying the the use of phrase "if the issue develops as a result of a manufacturing defect". Who is to say if after 60k miles it developed to to wear and tear, accidental damage or manufacturing defect... and who is to check that decision is correct. The answer is - Lexus themselves and I can see quite obvious conflict of interest.

So we going from approach of:

- something is not working, but should be working, check if there is any obvious external damage and if not then replace for free. Which is easy to define, because as long as there isn't clear external damage it is covered.

To approach of:

- something is not working - prove if it is not working due to manufacturing defect and replace for free if it is covered in T&Cs. Which is nearly impossible without good will of Lexus, because it is only Lexus themselves who can determine it and even then just maybe.

Toyota offer exactly the same as well and so they should be able to answer for Lexus and Toyota.

Linas.P · August 10, 2021

Just now, wharfhouse said:

Toyota offer exactly the same as well and so they should be able to answer for Lexus and Toyota.

Sorry, wasn't aware of that... somehow missed the memo.

Phil xxkr · August 10, 2021

4 hours ago, Linas.P said:

To be fair, this isn't really telling. The problem is that "Lexus Relax" is Lexus policy obviously and Toyota representative may not be the best person to answer it.

One thing which I found slightly worrying the the use of phrase "if the issue develops as a result of a manufacturing defect". Who is to say if after 60k miles it developed to to wear and tear, accidental damage or manufacturing defect... and who is to check that decision is correct. The answer is - Lexus themselves and I can see quite obvious conflict of interest.

So we going from approach of:

- something is not working, but should be working, check if there is any obvious external damage and if not then replace for free. Which is easy to define, because as long as there isn't clear external damage it is covered.

To approach of:

- something is not working - prove if it is not working due to manufacturing defect and replace for free if it is covered in T&Cs. Which is nearly impossible without good will of Lexus, because it is only Lexus themselves who can determine it and even then just maybe.

Which was my point exactly Linas. You now have a third party adjudicating on what is in or out 😕. They have no brand allegiance per se purely a mechanistic profit and loss account so whether it's Toyota, Lexus, Audi etc makes not a jot of difference.

Pielight · August 10, 2021

I believe that even the Extended Warranty is administered by a third party (TWG) who must authorise any claims?

royoftherovers · August 10, 2021

8 minutes ago, Pielight said:

I believe that even the Extended Warranty is administered by a third party (TWG) who must authorise any claims?

You are correct.

dublet · August 10, 2021

Modern society is subcontractors all the way along. In the end it's one chap in an overall fixing things, while another in a suit and tie frantically sorts out the paperwork while being 12 different PLCs at the same time. Both on zero hours contracts.